Despite my best effort at a leak-free rear main seal installation (Viton seal, Mancini billet holder w/ the dual o-ring side seals [and is a square-shaped rubber strip still considering an "o" ring?], Hylomar behind the seals), the pig still leaked on the dyno.

I freakin' hate leaks.

Suggestions for the next attempt?
- Rope seal? (I have one on order)
- One-piece seal?
- 2-piece Viton like before, but re-orienting it differently? (I had the ends offset slightly)

FWIW, it's got an Eagle crank with the knurled seal area (and W-T-F would they DO that?).

I'm all ears.

EDIT: I'll save my rant for the oil pan leaking after doing "all the right things with all the right stuff" until I've verified that it's NOT wet because of the rear main seal or the fuel-pump block-off plate leaks I know about already.

The knurled area is probably a carry over from the days of the rope seals (Before the Viton/rubber 2 piece seals we have now). And I have No clue what the knurled section does to stop oil leaks with a rope seal.

we recently had a 383 that just about drove us crazy--ordered a new rope from Best gasket--followed directions--stopped the problem but you can't do it in the car she really needs to come apart
FWIW I have way better luck with stock type seal holders--we put it on block with no crank--line it up perfectly--then mark it so we can duplicate that when we put it together--that has helped a lot--we just use RTV on the sides I hate those blue rubbers--even if you get good at Ramming them in they still push on retainer and may not allow it to line up correctly--common sense
Have never seen any advantage to offsetting--makes sense that it will aid line up of two halves but you run the risk of getting some RTV on the actual seal which is a sure leak IMO
Bottom line if crank seal area is OK and OD has not been reduced by over polishing etc--it is still a Crapshoot these days--can't say if it is the seals we get or what but I am getting to the point of hating big blocks for that reason
we went for over 30 years never ever had one leak and many were assembled after too many cool ones back in those days--now...it is just a sick feeling every time I do one because no matter what you do or whose directions you follow it can bite even the most seasoned Mopar guy
I have seen all kinds of issues with the billet holders--IMO they are $$ tossed away
Best Gasket rope seal comes with template to cut so .015 sticks up from block and same for cap--they say lube with red assem lube--it worked and was not that hard to turn so........

I honestly have had WAY better luck with the stock retainers and just a good seal with sealer on the sides. I have used the SuperFormance one on the last couple and no leaks...

I have probably 5 billet ones we have tried, Mopar, Mancini etc etc never had great luck

the billet holder is usually the source of problem - it a 50-50 bet it will leak - you can try the Monte method - it usually works. I always use just grey silicone on the side seals seams to work.

I used the rubber sides with a rope seal and it was a pita to put together, and it leaks. Going to use a regular seal and just fill the sides with RTV. It seems cheesy but it seems like that is the best method. I think the key is to have the retainer apply even pressure to a seal that is centered around the crank, tighten the retainer down, and THEN seal the sides. I think those rubber sides cause issues with keeping the retainer centered around the crank. The tolerance on the sides of the block skirts were probably not designed to center the retainer on the crank, since the original method used the fiber boards that you tapped in after. Just my theory, we'll see how I make out when I take mine apart in a few weeks. I HATE leaks too, especially on a fresh engine...

Brad,

this is from a thread a few weeks ago.




You can rotate the seal around the clock till your purple. That most certainly helps but it does not assure the 2 halfs are allighned. When the 2 halfs are out of alighnment the edge of the seal can actually grab oil and channel it to the outer shell of the seal retainer and drip, drip, drip and drip. When you rotate the seal to 6:00/12:00 you are solely relying on the upper and lower seals to alighn themselves as you lower the retainer into the seal register in the block. You have NO WAY of knowing if there is ANY torsional twist where the upper and lower seals meet because you cannot see them.

How could this happen argue

If you place the seal retainer in the block with just the retainer bolts you will see there is play in that retainer forward and back. If the seal retainer is installed and is ever so slightly cocked, guess what? Drip, drip, drip, drip. This was not a concern coming out of Trenton engine assembly back in the day because Chrysler used rope seals. It did not matter if the upper and lower halfs were aligned.

Since none of us install rope seals it is of the upmost importance the the upper and lower lips of the seals are aligned with each other because that lip on the seal is way way way wayyyyy thinner than a rope seal.

How do you do this??????

With the crank out of the block place the upper half of the seal in the block and the lower in the seal retainer.

Place the seal retainer into the block and tighten the retainer bolts to 5 ft pounds.

Look at where the lips of the seals are and tap the seal retainer housing till the seal lips on both sides are aligned.

* On most aftermarket seal retainers material will have to be removed off the seal retainer in order to achieve perfect alignenment. This is due to interference with the #5 main studs


Tighten the seal retainer to spec and recheck alignment.

Take a straightedge and scribe a line across the bottom of the seal retainer and pan rails of the block.

Remove seal retainer

You now know the position the seal retainer needs to be in by aligning your scribe marks as you preform the final install of the rear main seal. Once you know where the seal retainer needs to be you can clock the seal to your hearts desire.


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I had a rear main seal leak on my 508 with an Ohio Crank when I first put it together. The 3rd time around I went with a Fast Fish one piece seal and ultra black in place of the side seals. Dry as a bone after that.

Interesting -- even if sometimes contradictory -- info being posted.

I should also ask... which approach(es) is viable without having to remove the crank?

I do it with the seal in the block and holder--line those lips up and mark as described by others here--that has been our best luck deal
I do not use billet holders anymore--

I'm putting a stock stroke 440 motor together today, I used a rear main seal kit from SCE and installed the seals like stock, no rotation I do put a thin stripe of adhesive silicone sealer on the edge of the lip on the seals that goes into the stock seal holder and block, I also use a real thin layer on the ends of the seals and a real thin layer on the seal holder bottom that is tighten onto the block and then once it is tighten into place I use a thin blade screw driver to seal the bottom edge of the seal holder to the block and fill both sides of the seal holder to the block to ensure no leaks
Works good, last a long time
No leaks in a long time since I started doing it this way

Crikey! Still sounds like a total crap-shoot on whether it'll leak or not.

I've used the Best gasket rope seal twice now with good results. I like the looks of the Fast Fish but never tried it.

I checked out their web site, looks like the way to go. Wonder how hard it would b to install with the crank in the block?

Brad the 470 with your victor heads had a bad leak , had to pull motor and replace seal. A 464 I built this summer has a minor leak also. It is very frustrating. Like mentioned earlier I have been building 383/440 for over 30 years, and the last 5 motors have had leak issues. give me a call I have identified some potential issues with the billet retainers I use, also the seals have some issues. I have the 470 going on the run stand right now as the test for all these tweaks so jury is still out as to if this will be successful.

Make sure the retainer isn't hitting against any main studs or nuts like mine was. Makes for a helluva leak.

There is now way to know if the upper and lower half’s of the seal are aligned unless the crank comes out. You have to weigh out the pain of drip drip drip all over the driveway and garage floor for the next few years vs pulling the crank and aligning the seal. Your other option is to spend big bucks on that seal in this thread that is a one piece. YUCK!

Think about what is going on around the rear main seal and seal holder, there is no oil pressure (crankcase pressure only) trying to force the oil out of the seal, only splash oil, correct?
That being the case where is the oil leaking from, the seal, the oil pan gasket, the side seals or exactly what
To fix it you have to know where it is leaking from first, correct
If the seal is working like designed then the oil is coming from some where else

I've heard that the typical billet retainer's design may not allow for adequate drainage away from the seal. The one that Best Machine used to sell (I don't believe they have them now) was supposed to have been machined to reduce this problem, but I can't find any pics to see what they did.

I'm not adverse to modifying mine... just need to see an example of what works.