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#2370954 - 09/14/17 08:09 PM Hellcat blower manifold pattern reveiled!
gregsdart Offline
master

Registered: 01/21/03
Posts: 8099
Loc: Frostbitefalls (Rocky&Bullwink...
I decided yto look at the hellcat blower base, to see if there is the possibility of bolting it to Apache or similar heads. No chance as is. The blower only has bolts around the outer edge of the blower case. They also are located outside the machined surface of the Apache heads, as the blower is wider than a stock 6.4 intake. It might be possible to use spacer plates about 1/2 inch thick and come up with a combo that would work.


Attachments
P1010004 (2).JPG


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GREG
Educated at SHK U
Measure with yardstick
mark with chalk
cut with torch!



528 cubic inch alky injected 440-1 wedge, 3055 race weight.
8.779 at 153.16 mph. 1.289 60 ft. density altitude 1617 feet. Best 60 ft 1.24

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#2370957 - 09/14/17 08:13 PM Re: Hellcat blower manifold pattern reveiled! [Re: gregsdart]
gregsdart Offline
master

Registered: 01/21/03
Posts: 8099
Loc: Frostbitefalls (Rocky&Bullwink...
Apache head, intake side.
When I tried to match the gasket to the Apache head, the bolts would be too close to the valve cover.


Attachments
P1010003-2.jpg




Edited by gregsdart (09/14/17 08:15 PM)
_________________________
GREG
Educated at SHK U
Measure with yardstick
mark with chalk
cut with torch!



528 cubic inch alky injected 440-1 wedge, 3055 race weight.
8.779 at 153.16 mph. 1.289 60 ft. density altitude 1617 feet. Best 60 ft 1.24

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#2371020 - 09/14/17 10:08 PM Re: Hellcat blower manifold pattern reveiled! [Re: gregsdart]
L4staero Offline
member

Registered: 09/10/11
Posts: 71
Loc: Australia
Greg you are right. Alot of people spoke about the possibility of redrilling the heads to make it bolt on. I will outline why it wont work as outlined also by you. Some of the apache intake surface isnt machined flat it the area you need to drill for the hellcat pattern. You could machine this area in a mill however then the metal is very thin where the bolt would go through. If you look on a hellcat head there is a large boss there where the bolt goes through. If you drilled and tapped an apache i imagine it would simply break off at the cam cover rail very quickly.
There is no surface to put the locating dowls. The dowls on the hc head take the load off the bolts. Given the hc blower takes 80hp to drive there would be alot of force on those long little bolts and would also fail quite quickly

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#2371024 - 09/14/17 10:18 PM Re: Hellcat blower manifold pattern reveiled! [Re: gregsdart]
WO23Coronet Offline
master

Registered: 01/08/08
Posts: 3855
Loc: Canada
Spaced looks like your best option as you said Greg

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#2371111 - 09/15/17 06:09 AM Re: Hellcat blower manifold pattern reveiled! [Re: gregsdart]
gregsdart Offline
master

Registered: 01/21/03
Posts: 8099
Loc: Frostbitefalls (Rocky&Bullwink...
I didn't know about the dowels, which would be important for a couple of reasons. I figure an angle cut on a spacer on the valve cover side would provide the room without cutting the heads, but it is better just to buy the hellcat heads anyway since it would allow the use of all stock belts.
_________________________
GREG
Educated at SHK U
Measure with yardstick
mark with chalk
cut with torch!



528 cubic inch alky injected 440-1 wedge, 3055 race weight.
8.779 at 153.16 mph. 1.289 60 ft. density altitude 1617 feet. Best 60 ft 1.24

Top
#2371142 - 09/15/17 09:14 AM Re: Hellcat blower manifold pattern reveiled! [Re: gregsdart]
WO23Coronet Offline
master

Registered: 01/08/08
Posts: 3855
Loc: Canada
Just for the heck of it, can you post a pic with the HC gasket overlaid on the Apache head?

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#2371164 - 09/15/17 10:17 AM Re: Hellcat blower manifold pattern reveiled! [Re: gregsdart]
WO23Coronet Offline
master

Registered: 01/08/08
Posts: 3855
Loc: Canada
And I wonder if the BGE heads have enough meat for a redrill?

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#2371171 - 09/15/17 10:26 AM Re: Hellcat blower manifold pattern reveiled! [Re: gregsdart]
ric3xrt Offline
super stock

Registered: 01/13/06
Posts: 768
Loc: Sellersville Pa
Originally Posted By gregsdart
It might be possible to use spacer plates about 1/2 inch thick and come up with a combo that would work.


And that's about the only way you can use Apache heads with the HC blower.
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1975 D-code D100
1975 D-code Ramcharger(swapping to a G3
1977 D-code Warlock
1977 D-Code D100
1978 D-code Mid Nite Express
1978 Lil Red
1979 Lil Red
2004 Rumble Bee
2005 Ram GTX
Any info on these trucks is greatly appreciated
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2014 1500 tradesman(shhhh, it's hiding a 7.0 short block under those eagle heads.

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#2371173 - 09/15/17 10:28 AM Re: Hellcat blower manifold pattern reveiled! [Re: WO23Coronet]
ric3xrt Offline
super stock

Registered: 01/13/06
Posts: 768
Loc: Sellersville Pa
Originally Posted By WO23Coronet
And I wonder if the BGE heads have enough meat for a redrill?


No.

Split a few of these open over the last 4 months to say there is just not enough material, where the bolts need to anchor.

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#2371398 - 09/15/17 06:30 PM Re: Hellcat blower manifold pattern reveiled! [Re: ric3xrt]
WO23Coronet Offline
master

Registered: 01/08/08
Posts: 3855
Loc: Canada
Originally Posted By ric3xrt
Originally Posted By WO23Coronet
And I wonder if the BGE heads have enough meat for a redrill?


No.

Split a few of these open over the last 4 months to say there is just not enough material, where the bolts need to anchor.


Copy, thought since they were the same casting (BGE and hellcat heads) that maybe the BGE's would have the extra meat as well

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#2371530 - 09/15/17 10:29 PM Re: Hellcat blower manifold pattern reveiled! [Re: gregsdart]
L4staero Offline
member

Registered: 09/10/11
Posts: 71
Loc: Australia
Ive had bge and hc side by side. Bge lacks the bolt bosses on the rocker cover rail as well as the area for the dowels. I have photos i can update later

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#2371633 - 09/16/17 08:32 AM Re: Hellcat blower manifold pattern reveiled! [Re: WO23Coronet]
ric3xrt Offline
super stock

Registered: 01/13/06
Posts: 768
Loc: Sellersville Pa
Originally Posted By WO23Coronet
Originally Posted By ric3xrt
Originally Posted By WO23Coronet
And I wonder if the BGE heads have enough meat for a redrill?


No.

Split a few of these open over the last 4 months to say there is just not enough material, where the bolts need to anchor.


Copy, thought since they were the same casting (BGE and hellcat heads) that maybe the BGE's would have the extra meat as well



That's what I was hoping, but didn't work out that way. we had a customer who brought us two 6.2 hellcats, to endro test some coatings, 1st test had aluminum rods, #3 rod broke 4 mins in to test, broke at the big end, luckily the piston caught on the Ex Valve, wrecked the head, Customer signed off on the bores small scratches and the bottom of the bore had a ..I'll say divot. rod manufacture over nighted us anew set
Mean while the 2nd 6.2 was up and running and holding 6000RPMs , we couldn't locate a hellcat head, local dodge dealer had 1 set of Apache's we couldn't buy just the D-side head had to buy the pair, after some discussing about waiting for the right part, customers money won out over reason...head split after 10 Mins at the mounting surface, machined P-side head, drilled oil drain back, exhaust bolts....head split after 9 mins, ...than there was the blame it on this set Apache heads, you know the "no one makes anything that last" conversation... next day we ordered a 2nd set, same thing....meanwhile the other test motor is swinging away @6k for it's 3rd day( test was 23 a day hours,24th hour fluids changed than restart. once we got a Hellcat head, test was ran, but this engine was constantly 40HP down from stock rod engine.. I'm not saying the rods cost HP, this engine just wasn't right after the rod break...but like I said customer's money out spent reason.

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#2371746 - 09/16/17 01:45 PM Re: Hellcat blower manifold pattern reveiled! [Re: gregsdart]
WO23Coronet Offline
master

Registered: 01/08/08
Posts: 3855
Loc: Canada
Wow, sounds like a crazy test. Your holding it at 6K rpm for 23 hrs straight?

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#2372264 - 09/17/17 02:28 PM Re: Hellcat blower manifold pattern reveiled! [Re: ric3xrt]
gregsdart Offline
master

Registered: 01/21/03
Posts: 8099
Loc: Frostbitefalls (Rocky&Bullwink...
Originally Posted By ric3xrt
Originally Posted By WO23Coronet
Originally Posted By ric3xrt
Originally Posted By WO23Coronet
And I wonder if the BGE heads have enough meat for a redrill?


No.

Split a few of these open over the last 4 months to say there is just not enough material, where the bolts need to anchor.


Copy, thought since they were the same casting (BGE and hellcat heads) that maybe the BGE's would have the extra meat as well


That's what I was hoping, but didn't work out that way. we had a customer who brought us two 6.2 hellcats, to endro test some coatings, 1st test had aluminum rods, #3 rod broke 4 mins in to test, broke at the big end, luckily the piston caught on the Ex Valve, wrecked the head, Customer signed off on the bores small scratches and the bottom of the bore had a ..I'll say divot. rod manufacture over nighted us anew set
Mean while the 2nd 6.2 was up and running and holding 6000RPMs , we couldn't locate a hellcat head, local dodge dealer had 1 set of Apache's we couldn't buy just the D-side head had to buy the pair, after some discussing about waiting for the right part, customers money won out over reason...head split after 10 Mins at the mounting surface, machined P-side head, drilled oil drain back, exhaust bolts....head split after 9 mins, ...than there was the blame it on this set Apache heads, you know the "no one makes anything that last" conversation... next day we ordered a 2nd set, same thing....meanwhile the other test motor is swinging away @6k for it's 3rd day( test was 23 a day hours,24th hour fluids changed than restart. once we got a Hellcat head, test was ran, but this engine was constantly 40HP down from stock rod engine.. I'm not saying the rods cost HP, this engine just wasn't right after the rod break...but like I said customer's money out spent reason.

What was the cost on the Apache and hellcat heads?


Edited by gregsdart (09/17/17 02:32 PM)
_________________________
GREG
Educated at SHK U
Measure with yardstick
mark with chalk
cut with torch!



528 cubic inch alky injected 440-1 wedge, 3055 race weight.
8.779 at 153.16 mph. 1.289 60 ft. density altitude 1617 feet. Best 60 ft 1.24

Top
#2372571 - 09/18/17 07:14 AM Re: Hellcat blower manifold pattern reveiled! [Re: gregsdart]
ric3xrt Offline
super stock

Registered: 01/13/06
Posts: 768
Loc: Sellersville Pa
[/quote]
What was the cost on the Apache and hellcat heads? [/quote]


The Apache, I think they were $1200 the pair, I didn't see that invoice and the hellcat heads , I honestly can't tell you, they showed up after I told my boss that there was no way this test can be ran with out the right heads.

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#2372572 - 09/18/17 07:21 AM Re: Hellcat blower manifold pattern reveiled! [Re: WO23Coronet]
ric3xrt Offline
super stock

Registered: 01/13/06
Posts: 768
Loc: Sellersville Pa
Originally Posted By WO23Coronet
Wow, sounds like a crazy test. Your holding it at 6K rpm for 23 hrs straight?


12mins @ 800 to warm up, then RPM ramp up to 6k over another 6 mins, engines ran for 22.5 hours @6k then brought down to idle over the last 12 mins test was a 5 day run for a total of 110 hours @6k.
Engines were then tore down and check for issues.

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#2372657 - 09/18/17 10:19 AM Re: Hellcat blower manifold pattern reveiled! [Re: gregsdart]
WO23Coronet Offline
master

Registered: 01/08/08
Posts: 3855
Loc: Canada
How'd they look? (If you can say)

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#2373907 - 09/20/17 12:52 PM Re: Hellcat blower manifold pattern reveiled! [Re: WO23Coronet]
ric3xrt Offline
super stock

Registered: 01/13/06
Posts: 768
Loc: Sellersville Pa
Originally Posted By WO23Coronet
How'd they look? (If you can say)


Stocker was good, all 8 cylinders PSI, after the test were with in 2% of pre test #s .
7 rods looked good, No3 rod bearing upper had some heavy scoring marks, but other than that all major components Looked good after magnaflux,

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