440 build
#2359465
08/25/17 02:30 AM
08/25/17 02:30 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,123 State, country, etc.
gss
OP
super stock
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OP
super stock
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Hi Gang, my sons decided to get my '71 Charger running. It hasn't seen daylight in 25 years. They already got the engine out and the top end off. It looks pretty good inside but it always needed a lot of octane booster to run well so they are going to rebuild it to be a little more practical.
It is .030 with L2295 pistons, DC .509 cam, Stage IV heads, TM-7 intake, and headers. I ran an 800 Double Pumper but that is being used on another car so they may try a fresh Holley 950 3 bbl I have laying around.
Does anyone make a relatively light weight 440 piston?
The cam and lifters look great. Any reason not to reuse them? I would probably change the valve springs.
Does it make sense to recondition the rods with all the cheap aftermarket rods that are available today?
Thanks!
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Re: 440 build
[Re: Mr.Yuck]
#2359999
08/26/17 01:34 AM
08/26/17 01:34 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,123 State, country, etc.
gss
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OP
super stock
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I'd use what you have, new rings.... different cam thou. something a tad more modern. maybe a new timing chain and roll... If the compression ratio was a little lower, I would do just that. Also those old forged pistons seemed to have lot of piston slap. I'd like it to be a little quieter. I am sure there are better cams but I loved this one. It was a torque monster right off idle and revved hard to well over 7000 RPM. It has an aluminum flywheel so it revved really fast. Thanks!
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Re: 440 build
[Re: gss]
#2360626
08/27/17 03:43 PM
08/27/17 03:43 PM
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gss
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The lifters appear to be in perfect condition. Any reason they shouldn't be reused after sitting 25 years? I haven't mic'd the cam yet but it looks great as well. When I last drove it, I thought the valves were floating a bit earlier and sitting without the rockers loosened doesn't help. So I want to check out the valve springs. Does anyone know what spring pressures I need with the old 509 cam? I noticed the inside of the engine - the lifter valley and under the valve covers is black. No sludge or anything, just black. The PCV valve looks fine. Is there anything else I should look for to explain this. This engine always ran really well, better than others with the 509 cam that I knew of. I changed the 20w50 VR1 every year with well under 1000 miles on it.
Last edited by gss; 08/27/17 03:48 PM.
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Re: 440 build
[Re: FastmOp]
#2360660
08/27/17 04:42 PM
08/27/17 04:42 PM
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Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 4,804 Wichita
GY3
master
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master
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 4,804
Wichita
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Mahle pistons and Molnar 7.1" rods.
'63 Dodge 330
11.19 @ 121 mph Pump gas, n/a, through the mufflers on street tires with 3.54's. 3,600 lbs.
9.92 @ 135mph with a 350 shot of nitrous and 93 octane pump. 1.43 60 ft. 3,750 lbs.
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Re: 440 build
[Re: gss]
#2360679
08/27/17 05:27 PM
08/27/17 05:27 PM
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Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 4,333 Prospect, PA
BSB67
master
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master
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Posts: 4,333
Prospect, PA
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The lifters appear to be in perfect condition. Any reason they shouldn't be reused after sitting 25 years? I haven't mic'd the cam yet but it looks great as well.
Probably better than any lifters you could get today.
Last edited by BSB67; 08/27/17 05:28 PM.
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Re: 440 build
[Re: gss]
#2360697
08/27/17 06:15 PM
08/27/17 06:15 PM
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Joined: May 2003
Posts: 13,226 aZLiViN
J_BODY
I Live Here
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I Live Here
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aZLiViN
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It was a torque monster right off idle and revved hard to well over 7000 RPM. torque monsters don't need 7K rpm to get it done.
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Re: 440 build
[Re: gss]
#2360800
08/27/17 09:11 PM
08/27/17 09:11 PM
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Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 43,719 Bend,OR USA
Cab_Burge
I Win
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I Win
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 43,719
Bend,OR USA
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On your deal reusing the old cam and lifters already broke in with new valve springs I would look for 140 to 170 lbs. on the seats and from 325 to 375 lbs. at max lift As far as the black coating did you use ARP assembly lube and black cam lube on the motor? If so that may be where your black coating colors are coming from still That stuff is a bear to get flushed out of the motor, especially if it is a street car that doesn't go on long trips over two hundred miles at a time
Last edited by Cab_Burge; 08/27/17 09:13 PM.
Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)
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Re: 440 build
[Re: Cab_Burge]
#2361529
08/29/17 02:11 AM
08/29/17 02:11 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,123 State, country, etc.
gss
OP
super stock
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OP
super stock
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Posts: 1,123
State, country, etc.
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On your deal reusing the old cam and lifters already broke in with new valve springs I would look for 140 to 170 lbs. on the seats and from 325 to 375 lbs. at max lift As far as the black coating did you use ARP assembly lube and black cam lube on the motor? If so that may be where your black coating colors are coming from still That stuff is a bear to get flushed out of the motor, especially if it is a street car that doesn't go on long trips over two hundred miles at a time I didn't do the initial build so I am not sure what was used. Thank you for the spring info.
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Re: 440 build
[Re: AndyF]
#2361536
08/29/17 02:27 AM
08/29/17 02:27 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,123 State, country, etc.
gss
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super stock
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OP
super stock
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It all depends on the budget of course but if the money is available I'd buy aluminum heads for that engine. The modern chamber design in the aluminum heads will allow you to run pump gas and you'll lose a bunch of weight off the nose of the car.
You should be able to sell those Stage IV heads for a decent amount which will offset some of the cost of the aluminum heads. Well the budget is that of a 16yo and 13yo whose income comes from mowing the lawn so different heads are probably not high on the list. This is primarily a learning experience for them. That brings up another question though. The last pair of heads (906 heads)I sent to the machine shop came back with cracks in the valve guide towers. They claimed that was normal and not a problem. Another machine shop told me the same thing. I don't agree. I think this would cause oil to be sucked through into the valve guide. These are experienced shops that build a lot of engines. Is it unreasonable to expect my heads to come back with no cracks?
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Re: 440 build
[Re: Cab_Burge]
#2369980
09/13/17 12:33 PM
09/13/17 12:33 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,123 State, country, etc.
gss
OP
super stock
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OP
super stock
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Well the cam is perfect.... except one tiny scratch on a lobe. I think it was running this way. Its right on the closing flank so maybe it survived. Regardless, I think I need to replace it Any suggestions for a cam that performs as good or better than the old .509 Purple Shaft? Pump gas friendly. Offset grind on the crank is $425. Looks like aftermarket rods are going to be $500 whether they are are stock stroke or 3.91. Pistons are going to be around $500 too. Are those typical figures? Thanks
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