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Re: Thank God for bracket racing
[Re: jamesc]
#234907
02/26/09 01:11 AM
02/26/09 01:11 AM
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Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 2,521
PA
moparacer
master
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master
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 2,521
PA
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nothing like pulling to the line knowing full well you have a guy covered by a second and the only way he can beat you is if the earth suddenly splits wide open in your lane and swallows you up.....
Your 100K ride against his 25K ride.....
Yep that's suspense alright....And what I see 99 percent of the time at the local HU races.
Thing is, even though HU racing is not my cup of tea, I dont go out of my way to bash it on the Internet forums, and have a lot of respect for those guys that do push the envelope.....
Cant say the same for the HU guys opinions of bracket racers though......
67 Barracuda street/bracket car 11.27-119
68 Dart 502 BB 8.70s-152
414 cid SB Dragster 7.65-174
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Re: Thank God for bracket racing
#234908
02/26/09 01:23 AM
02/26/09 01:23 AM
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Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 656
Kokomo, IN
540dust
mopar
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mopar
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 656
Kokomo, IN
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Quote:
Just to crash this bracket racer's love-in....
Is there another form of racing out there, any form at all, where the first competitor to reach the finish line loses because they went too fast? Honestly....just asking. I don't even know why its called "racing" to begin with. Think about it. A 16 second car can potentially beat a 10 second car, if the 16 second car has a better package. I think it should be renamed, Consistency Contest. Yeah I know, it doesn't sound as cool or sexy, but it better describes what's going on. Think about my comments before y'all get insulted and defensive. Yes, I already understand that it takes a certain amount of driver skill and ability to set up the car for consistency so it can go rounds. And no, 1FastMopar didn't ask me to write all this. Now, who can make a reasonable argument as to where my comments are all wrong?
It really doesn't seem you understand at all, yes there are other forms of sportsman racing that the first to the finish is the loser, super comp, super gas, hot rod, and super rod, super street, and quick rod would be a few. Quote "Think about it. A 16 second car can potentially beat a 10 second car, if the 16 second car has a better package." .... Well, not unless its a special event, you see that's why the call it bracket racing, because you compete in brackets separated by different ET's normally a 16 second car would not compete against a 10 second car, they would compete in separate "brackets"... bracket racing, you see. After you come the the realization that there is always someone faster and in order to compete "heads up" that there have to be rules to separate the faster cars from the slower cars, Bracket racing starts to make a lot of sense. A simple way of getting the cars out there who want to race out there doing what they love to do, race and compete. It appears your comments are wrong.
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Re: Thank God for bracket racing
[Re: rickstershemi]
#234909
02/26/09 01:31 AM
02/26/09 01:31 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 6,266
Renton Washington
Triple Threat
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 6,266
Renton Washington
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Quote:
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Just to crash this bracket racer's love-in....
Is there another form of racing out there, any form at all, where the first competitor to reach the finish line loses because they went too fast? Honestly....just asking. I don't even know why its called "racing" to begin with. Think about it. A 16 second car can potentially beat a 10 second car, if the 16 second car has a better package. I think it should be renamed, Consistency Contest. Yeah I know, it doesn't sound as cool or sexy, but it better describes what's going on. Think about my comments before y'all get insulted and defensive. Yes, I already understand that it takes a certain amount of driver skill and ability to set up the car for consistency so it can go rounds. And no, 1FastMopar didn't ask me to write all this. Now, who can make a reasonable argument as to where my comments are all wrong?
One Question First Dave: What class do you race in...???
Rickster
I'm not trying to attack you here Dave, but I am gonna take some jabs at you for arguments sake. For example, I know you have worked hard long hours on your duster to get it to where you have, I've watched it transform over the 8+ years I have been a part of this board. But No matter how many hours I put into my dart, without the money, I'm not even in the same ball park, I can pretty much guarantee you have more money into your short block than I have in my whole car.
I think the point here with this post was that us bracket racers are glad there is still a viable place we can go, race, and compete against one another, no matter the size of our checking accounts or more importantly our credit limits Too many sports now a days have lost their luster or their appeal to many because they have been turned into a game of who has the most money. I understand some teams don't have huge budgets relative to the likes of big namers, but they still have a bunch of money invested.
Personally I would love to race heads up, as would probably the majority of bracket racers, but financially and geographically its not really an option for me at this point. So I do what I can, improve my car when I can, but regardless, I have fun, which is what its all about. If your whole basis of your argument is that its not really racing if a slower car can win, well that is a matter of opinion.
-Dustin
67 Dart, 9 second, 392" G3 Hemi
68 Barracuda 340 F/SA
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Re: Thank God for bracket racing
#234910
02/26/09 01:51 AM
02/26/09 01:51 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 6,591
Canton, Ohio
Sport440
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 6,591
Canton, Ohio
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Quote:
Just to crash this bracket racer's love-in....
Is there another form of racing out there, any form at all, where the first competitor to reach the finish line loses because they went too fast? Honestly....just asking. I don't even know why its called "racing" to begin with. Think about it. A 16 second car can potentially beat a 10 second car, if the 16 second car has a better package. I think it should be renamed, Consistency Contest. Yeah I know, it doesn't sound as cool or sexy, but it better describes what's going on. Think about my comments before y'all get insulted and defensive. Yes, I already understand that it takes a certain amount of driver skill and ability to set up the car for consistency so it can go rounds. And no, 1FastMopar didn't ask me to write all this.
Now, who can make a reasonable argument as to where my comments are all wrong?
Ask and you shall recieve!  
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Re: Thank God for bracket racing
[Re: wyoming]
#234912
02/26/09 07:43 AM
02/26/09 07:43 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 6,314
The Swamp
MegaDart
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 6,314
The Swamp
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just consider the source, Ddave thinks test-n-tune is a race  I could probably count the total # of passes he's made to date on one hand, and I doubt he has ever WON a round of competition in his life. I consider his comments extremely uneducatated As I have said before, most that bash bracket racing have either never tried it, or got their azz handed to them and went home crying  For me turning on win lights, .00 or.000 rt's, running deadon, beating the guy/girl you never beat before and visiting the pay window are enough to keep me going back!! gee dave, last time I bracket raced the Dart I took home a check for $2000, almost $3000 in contingency money, a 2' IHRA Ironman and an free guarenteed entry to race for Top Sportsman World Championship in Oct. That race alone could net in excess of $100,000 in purse, contingency and corporate sponsorship. So you think I should just quit cause the breakout rule applies 
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Re: Thank God for bracket racing
[Re: RAT PATROL]
#234913
02/26/09 09:58 AM
02/26/09 09:58 AM
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Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 1,226
Peoples republic of clackamas ...
atoetly
OP
pro stock
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OP
pro stock
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 1,226
Peoples republic of clackamas ...
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My what big.................Tires you have, and wasn't it someone that looks just like you that bought a new aluminum block. The rest of us peons will just have to make do with our old tractor motors.
Yes and I took a whole season off to afford the aluminum block. Now when I become one of those that inherited their daddys daddys business and goes into the office around 10:30am to check on their "Employees" and leaves at noon for the rest of the day to go "Class race" with their Roller cam 600 plus cubic inch, tubed chassis, wanna be prostocks I will quit bracket racing?  
Yes, I did inherit my Dad's job (Construction Worker)but it appears I got shorted on the employees, 600 inches, and tubed chassis. I hope we both can be running for the Mopar Nationals. I take nothing for granted anymore. P.S. I want a lightweight crankshaft.
That comment was not directed at you as I have no idea of what your situation is. But I have personal experiences of similar scenario's.
Now for Mr Millers protege. I could give two fecal matters what either you or Mr Miller think about bracket racers or bracket racing! The BEST thing that has happened to this board was his disapperance!
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Re: Thank God for bracket racing
[Re: BobR]
#234914
02/26/09 10:02 AM
02/26/09 10:02 AM
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Joined: May 2007
Posts: 446
oregon
savoyracer
mopar
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mopar
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 446
oregon
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Quote:
"Now, who can make a reasonable argument as to where my comments are all wrong?"
I can't.
 ........I can!!  Just stand at the finish line and watch,  it will become very obvious in a very short period of time as to whether or not it can be called "a race". When I started drag racing as a kid in the '60s, The ONLY racing available, was class racing. When you get beat by two or three seconds every time, that is not fun. I believe that If not for the advent of bracket racing, even you would not be here today, talking about heads-up, nor would you have a track to run on!  We can all thank two men for coming up with this concept, and literally saving drag racing from going the way of dinosaurs. My hats off to Mickey Thompson, and C.J. [pappy] Hart,  may they both RIP
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Re: Thank God for bracket racing
[Re: MegaDart]
#234915
02/26/09 10:09 AM
02/26/09 10:09 AM
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Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 5,160
Texas
dannysbee
master
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master
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 5,160
Texas
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Bracket racing is more about the driver and less about the car. There are advantages to having the faster car but a slower car can still win. You can put a good driver in a average car and still win but a crappy driver will lose in the best car possible. Its about the competition and your ability as a driver.
As far as Bracket racing not being a race I beg to differ. Every round you have to launch the car and get to the finish line first to win. You just can't get there faster than you said you would. It's just like a red light start, just at the other end of the track.
It's a race to perfection, both cars have the equal oppertunity to make the perfect run. The car that comes closest to perfection wins.
Getting old just means you were smarter than some and luckier than others.
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Re: Thank God for bracket racing
[Re: jamesc]
#234916
02/26/09 10:16 AM
02/26/09 10:16 AM
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Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 8,165
Left Coast
BobR
master
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master
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 8,165
Left Coast
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Quote:
im not at all questioning that it takes skill to run at that level just that predominately it's a measure of finances as opposed to skill. you can be a good racer with little funds and win at bracket racing but no matter how good of a racer you are in the majority of heads up (no breakout) classes unless you have the funding you're an also ran. hugely expensive is a relative term but in the world i live in (and i'm not broke) running 6.80's on a 10.5 IS hugely expensive...how many people can afford to run a machine like that? i have great respect for these heads up classes and they field some absolutely incredible equipment but the bottom line is the majority of the time the guy with the most money not the guy with the most skill is gonna win simple as that
What you say is generally correct but here's my team's story. Last season we ran a basic SBF/nitrous setup. This is the lightest competitive combination allowed in our class. Our thinking was it would be easier to get a light car with moderate power down the track than a heavy car with more power. Out of 13 races we were in 9 finals and had 4 wins. There were 3 cars in our class that had at least 2 tenths on us on a perfect run. Perfect runs are hard to come by in a tire limited class, however. We ran a best of 7.12/196 last year(class record 6.80/210) but were in the championship chase for both associations we raced in. We were by far the least funded of any competitive car in our class but still did well. This year we threw some money at it and stepped up. Now we are expected to win BUT we still have to get down the track. Our first race is this weekend in AZ.
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Re: Thank God for bracket racing
[Re: rickstershemi]
#234917
02/26/09 10:19 AM
02/26/09 10:19 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,030
NH
torredcuda
super stock
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super stock
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,030
NH
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I like bracket racing, and did that more than anything. I ran a SG car for a long time, and loved it. It started to suck when the stutter box thing happened, and I quit SG racing. It was more fun to just bracket race at full throttle. I'll do it again at some point in the future, save some money, and maybe have more fun.
Full power bracket racing is a good thing to me, just don't like the feeling of a launch, then letting the car fall on it's face only to have it blast off again.
Man,I HATE watching throttle stop racing-light turns green,hit the gas and car falls flat on it`s face.NHo fun to watch for spectators and I can`t think it would be much fun as a driver.
Jeff, I have to agree that T/S Index Racing is boring for the spectators, but from a driver's standpoint it's anything but boring.
I leave on the vert at 6,000 rpm, pull the wheels out of the beams, drop to 3500 rpm .150 out and on the stop for approx. 2.5 sec @ 3500 rpm for a 1/4 mile run and mph @ 163+ on a 9.90 index....NOTHING BORING ABOUT THAT...
Rickster
Ok,I stand corrected -in some cases(like yours) it may not be boring to drive but I still can`t stand watching it.
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Re: Thank God for bracket racing
[Re: torredcuda]
#234919
02/26/09 10:57 AM
02/26/09 10:57 AM
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Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 9,366
Lehigh Acres, Florida
rickstershemi
master
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master
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 9,366
Lehigh Acres, Florida
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I like bracket racing, and did that more than anything. I ran a SG car for a long time, and loved it. It started to suck when the stutter box thing happened, and I quit SG racing. It was more fun to just bracket race at full throttle. I'll do it again at some point in the future, save some money, and maybe have more fun.
Full power bracket racing is a good thing to me, just don't like the feeling of a launch, then letting the car fall on it's face only to have it blast off again.
Man,I HATE watching throttle stop racing-light turns green,hit the gas and car falls flat on it`s face.NHo fun to watch for spectators and I can`t think it would be much fun as a driver.
Jeff, I have to agree that T/S Index Racing is boring for the spectators, but from a driver's standpoint it's anything but boring.
I leave on the vert at 6,000 rpm, pull the wheels out of the beams, drop to 3500 rpm .150 out and on the stop for approx. 2.5 sec @ 3500 rpm for a 1/4 mile run and mph @ 163+ on a 9.90 index....NOTHING BORING ABOUT THAT...
Rickster
Ok,I stand corrected -in some cases(like yours) it may not be boring to drive but I still can`t stand watching it.
Hey, I don't like watching it either...
It was stated in and earlier post that: You never see the Bracket or Index guys bashing heads up racing....Hell I love going to the Street Nats...!!!!!!
Just Erks me that the Heads Up dudes bash on Bracket Racers all the time....Add em up we outnumber you by a very wide margin.... 
and I have to agree with the statement about Mr Millers absence from the forum 
Rickster
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Post deleted by Defbob
[Re: MegaDart]
#234920
02/26/09 11:07 AM
02/26/09 11:07 AM
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Anonymous
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Anonymous
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Post deleted by Defbob
#234921
02/26/09 11:10 AM
02/26/09 11:10 AM
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Anonymous
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Re: Thank God for bracket racing
#234922
02/26/09 11:29 AM
02/26/09 11:29 AM
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Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 2,528
Mansfield, Tx
Jacob Pitt
master
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master
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 2,528
Mansfield, Tx
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I have been watching this and I have to bring up a point here.
When the comment was made about it not being racing if the slower car can win, that got me thinking. So if in a heads up race the slower of the two gets a holeshot win it really wasn't a race?
Man there isn't much racing going on then.
I am a bracket racer, a third generation bracket racer. My grandfather was inducted into the Texas Drag Racers Hall of Fame. Course he did his fair share of class racing because bracket racing wasn't around yet. I don't feel that my whole Family Tradition was a waste of time because we have been know to be some of the best "racers" around just because it was a bracket race. Racing is racing and winning is winning. I love bracket racing, and the people that do it are a great breed of people as well.
2013 NHRA D4 Stock Champ
#4 in the World IHRA Stock
2x IHRA Div.4 Stock Champ
14x Track Champ
All using a Ultimate Converter Concepts converter. Call Lenny today 704-892-6837
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Re: Thank God for bracket racing
[Re: hemiparts]
#234924
02/26/09 12:16 PM
02/26/09 12:16 PM
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Joined: May 2004
Posts: 1,151
Las Vegas
afxcoronet
super stock
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super stock
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 1,151
Las Vegas
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I live for bracket racing, and work hard on my car and my driving...This year we are going to try some .90 racing, so it's going to be even more of a challenge, and w/ out a challenge what god is life...
Curtis
Taking over the World one win light at a time.
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Re: Thank God for bracket racing
#234925
02/26/09 01:09 PM
02/26/09 01:09 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,030
NH
torredcuda
super stock
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super stock
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,030
NH
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Quote:
Jeff...I understand your feelings also...but if you ever see me at the track...come on over. I will show you how much is involved in T/S racing and how much fun it is to do. Heck...if its not a points race I'll let you take it down the track
Believe me,I can imagine how much is involved in trying to run a specific number-it`s hard enough to guess what my car is going to run without any changes and just air/temp differences.Like was said-bracket and index are very similar and both require cutting a light and running as close to your # as possible without breaking out.
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