Moparts
Thank God for bracket racing
Posted By: atoetly
Thank God for bracket racing - 02/24/09 08:01 PM
I'm sure this thread will get locked or deleted since I used God in the title but didn't know of a more fitting word to use? But I am very thankful that there is a type of racing that is very affordable to those of us that do not have the income to support other classes of racing. We get to run our dinosaur camshafts and other antiquated parts. I'm sure some might consider it being on par with demolition derby types that like banjo music and spit tobaco products? They can think that all they want. But the next time your at one of those big events just remember if it wasn't for us bracket racers keeping those tracks open the big events would be far and few between.
Posted By: Triple Threat
Re: Thank God for bracket racing - 02/24/09 08:09 PM
Quote:
I'm sure this thread will get locked or deleted since I used God in the title but didn't know of a more fitting word to use? But I am very thankful that there is a type of racing that is very affordable to those of us that do not have the income to support other classes of racing. We get to run our dinosaur camshafts and other antiquated parts. I'm sure some might consider it being on par with demolition derby types that like banjo music and spit tobaco products? They can think that all they want. But the next time your at one of those big events just remember if it wasn't for us bracket racers keeping those tracks open the big events would be far and few between.
I'm with you all the way Allen...
Posted By: CJK440
Re: Thank God for bracket racing - 02/24/09 08:11 PM
Nothing wrong with bracket racing.......
Posted By: MoparPitBull
Re: Thank God for bracket racing - 02/24/09 08:23 PM
Quote:
I'm sure this thread will get locked or deleted since I used God in the title but didn't know of a more fitting word to use? But I am very thankful that there is a type of racing that is very affordable to those of us that do not have the income to support other classes of racing. We get to run our dinosaur camshafts and other antiquated parts. I'm sure some might consider it being on par with demolition derby types that like banjo music and spit tobaco products? They can think that all they want. But the next time your at one of those big events just remember if it wasn't for us bracket racers keeping those tracks open the big events would be far and few between.
Posted By: PolyDart
Re: Thank God for bracket racing - 02/24/09 08:33 PM
Quote:
Thank God for bracket racing
Amen!!
Posted By: goldmember
Re: Thank God for bracket racing - 02/24/09 09:00 PM
Bracket racing is quality racing and theres nothing wrong with running a flat tappet cam,despite "the experts". I haven't raced the last few years as family obligations kept me away,this year I hope to get back on track.
Posted By: 70AARcuda
Re: Thank God for bracket racing - 02/24/09 09:05 PM
come on guys...you can not be serious racers if you are serious about backet racing....
Posted By: cudabunch
Re: Thank God for bracket racing - 02/24/09 09:08 PM
Quote:
I'm sure this thread will get locked or deleted since I used God in the title but didn't know of a more fitting word to use? But I am very thankful that there is a type of racing that is very affordable to those of us that do not have the income to support other classes of racing. We get to run our dinosaur camshafts and other antiquated parts. I'm sure some might consider it being on par with demolition derby types that like banjo music and spit tobaco products? They can think that all they want. But the next time your at one of those big events just remember if it wasn't for us bracket racers keeping those tracks open the big events would be far and few between.
Sounds like you are a little upset over the cam thing.Do you really care?Run what you want and if you lined up next to me I wouldnt know or care what you have in your car,only that you beat me 
I love all the racing and think brackets are the most fun, because you have to think a little more than heads up.Have a good day and your car looks great 
Posted By: DragDart360
Re: Thank God for bracket racing - 02/24/09 09:32 PM
I did some T&T back in the 70's and then found other interests as I was in denial that bracket racing just couldn't be fun because the first guy to the line wasn't always the winner.
I ended up with a bracket car three years ago and just had a blast!! We ended up wrecking that car (if it doesen't handle right fix it!)
I am currently building a 70 Swinger smallblock to get back out and battle. It's been a steep learning curve but I'm still having fun!
Posted By: RonTheAnnouncer
Re: Thank God for bracket racing - 02/24/09 09:41 PM
I couldn't race if bracket racing didn't exist. I can't afford a "race" car, but I can still show up and battle with my daily driver and get as much of a thrill. I spent 3 plus seasons in the car in my sig running high 18s and low 19s every week, and doing pretty well. I've also won money and trophies in cars that were even slower!
Posted By: BloFish
Re: Thank God for bracket racing - 02/24/09 09:42 PM
Bracket racing rules
Posted By: Quicktree
Re: Thank God for bracket racing - 02/24/09 10:00 PM
Quote:
Bracket racing is quality racing and theres nothing wrong with running a flat tappet cam,despite "the experts". I haven't raced the last few years as family obligations kept me away,this year I hope to get back on track.
also, life long bracket racer here. and it will be fun spanking your butt this year 
Posted By: 540dust
Re: Thank God for bracket racing - 02/24/09 10:20 PM
I agree 100%
I just hope that Bracket Racing can still keep alot of these small tracks going like it has in the past.
Posted By: goldmember
Re: Thank God for bracket racing - 02/24/09 10:27 PM
Good luck with that!
Posted By: Quicktree
Re: Thank God for bracket racing - 02/24/09 10:29 PM
Quote:
Good luck with that!
if nothing else maybe we can have some good bar-b-Q and shoot the bull
Posted By: goldmember
Re: Thank God for bracket racing - 02/24/09 10:34 PM
Sounds good,let me know ahead of time and I'll have some BBQ that will blow your mind!
Posted By: RemCharger
Re: Thank God for bracket racing - 02/24/09 10:37 PM
Posted By: Quicktree
Re: Thank God for bracket racing - 02/24/09 10:38 PM
Quote:
Sounds good,let me know ahead of time and I'll have some BBQ that will blow your mind!
everybody knows I make the best bar-b-Q around 
but I will be glad to sample yours.
Posted By: torredcuda
Re: Thank God for bracket racing - 02/24/09 10:47 PM
I`m on a seriuosly low budget biulding my Duster as I bought it for $950 and will have less than $2000 total when it hits the track this spring.I will run a stock smog `79 360 with a four barrell Holley bolted on and be lucky to break into the 14`s.Without bracket racing I could never afford to run with the big dogs but I can still have fun running the Mod class in my Duster.
Posted By: MR_P_BODY
Re: Thank God for bracket racing - 02/24/09 10:47 PM
I bracket race plus do the heads up stuff... I like
it all..... if it aint got a motor... it aint right
Posted By: Glen440
Re: Thank God for bracket racing - 02/24/09 10:51 PM
Bracket racing gets me and some friends to stay at the track a few weekends every year. Its what I look forward to all winter.
Posted By: lenweiler
Re: Thank God for bracket racing - 02/24/09 10:51 PM
I like it all, but heads up is kinda neat. We have "Street Warz" up here on Fri. nights and it's heads up with anything street leagal. Some heavy hitters, but for the most part, just hot 'real street' runners.
Posted By: Hemi Allstate
Re: Thank God for bracket racing - 02/24/09 11:08 PM
If there wasn't bracket racing, I don't have any idea what class I would have to compete in!
I am sure I wouldn't have much of a chance though!
Posted By: Steve1118
Re: Thank God for bracket racing - 02/24/09 11:20 PM
As one who has been around this sport for forty five years, it is my humble opinion that bracket racing has saved the sport from extintion.
Class racing became so expensive, the playground of those with an incredible amount of time and money (usually both) that it was becoming impossible for the ham and egg guy who works for a living to be competitive.
Bracket racing saved the sport for those guys, and also saved the sport for the local tracks.
Although many of the more arrogant class racers put the badmouth on classes that are not "performance oriented" (whatever that means), very few of them can hang with good bracket drivers in a driving contest. You've got to be on your game to go several rounds in an event where everyone can run the number, much more sharp than to go rounds where your wallet is large enough to buy the best engine builder's "trick of the week" and blow everyone into the weeds.
Although I have class raced, bracket raced, and now love and support NSS racing, my respect for bracket cars and the drivers has never been higher.
Posted By: rickstershemi
Re: Thank God for bracket racing - 02/24/09 11:20 PM
Quote:
If there wasn't bracket racing, I don't have any idea what class I would have to compete in! I am sure I wouldn't have much of a chance though!
Henry J's Rock....very nice...
Bracket Racing as far as I'm concerned has been the backbone of drag racing....not the beginning I agree, but what I believe has kept the sport and local tracks alive for many years....
Rickster
Posted By: wyoming
Re: Thank God for bracket racing - 02/25/09 12:04 AM
I think bracket raciing is the best thing to ever happen to sportsman style racing, and it also one of the worst things to happen to racing, but I've been doing it a long time and have no intentions of quiting.
Posted By: RAT PATROL
Re: Thank God for bracket racing - 02/25/09 12:16 AM
My what big.................Tires you have, and wasn't it someone that looks just like you that bought a new aluminum block. The rest of us peons will just have to make do with our old tractor motors.
Posted By: EvilB1Dart
Re: Thank God for bracket racing - 02/25/09 12:41 AM
At one time I was one of the ones who "bagged" on bracket racing UNTIL I went out to Norwalk several years ago and hung out with Eric (moderator) who taught me a few things about it. Between Eric and Pat Norton I gained a whole new respect for that type of racing from witnessing their love and dedication for it. Those two had the look of an F-15 pilot in their eyes while in the cockpit of their rides. And them boys can bracket race!
From my view, I personally think a bracket racer would make a top heads-up type racer because they look/study/know all facets of the "race" and their "car" to get the absolute MOST out of each pass.........which would be deadly in a heads-up type ride. But hey, thats just my opinion.
Wes
Posted By: cgall
Re: Thank God for bracket racing - 02/25/09 12:56 AM
Yes, because test-and-tune is like going on a hot date and at the end of the night, she gives you a hand-shake!
Posted By: redruM
Re: Thank God for bracket racing - 02/25/09 01:07 AM
Usually when i'm on my game, the car isn't running good. Then the car will be running great, and then I'll beat myself.
Scenario: got a great bulb, car was running great all day, had some distance on the other guy in high gear, only to misjudge the line and let him take the stripe....
Posted By: dustergirl340
Re: Thank God for bracket racing - 02/25/09 01:53 AM
Quote:
Yes, because test-and-tune is like going on a hot date and at the end of the night, she gives you a hand-shake!
I had a blast doing a few T&T's until I discovered Friday night bracket racing. Way more fun, and I found I could actually go rounds and win a little money.
Posted By: David_in_St_Croi
Re: Thank God for bracket racing - 02/25/09 01:53 AM
If it was not for bracket racing what class would Michelle run in?
She beat the president of the Caribbean Drag Racing Association in his black 2005 Vette one night. He broke out, she didn't!! That was a highlight. he was a perfect gentleman about it.
Posted By: 10 o to go
Re: Thank God for bracket racing - 02/25/09 02:56 AM
DON'T GET ME STARTED.1977 I STARTED RACING brackets were fairly new i've raced AHRA,IHRA,NHRA,
As most of you know $500 to $50,000 cars compete shake hands go for it.Electronic no electronics so be it,slicks verses street tire , old drivers, young drivers ,men verses women.
THE pocket book is your other handicap
Brackets are the backbone of major sanctions but we get treated by lack of spectators and coverage.
Our track has cut purses ,5 pts events now,pts monies.Lack of going for the local sponsors.
Those in the click tell us all they need is midnite madness ,street car shootouts ,were the biggest motor should win they don't need cars just spectators and not pay anything out, BIG TROPHIES.
I KNOW MOST OF us wont race justfor a trophy
WE've asked to raise our entry fees so we have a better payout so we dont have to travel 2 1/2 hrs.
So if you have a track that is treating you with
a decent payout,and want your car their BE GLAD.
WE have a racers banquet put on by racers .
Our JR's get crapped on ,our future in brackets.
I.ve been told if Gateway got sold brackets will be done how much
worse is that .
thank your god and your management
I feel better practicing my typing
don
Posted By: dthemi
Re: Thank God for bracket racing - 02/25/09 03:28 AM
I like bracket racing, and did that more than anything. I ran a SG car for a long time, and loved it. It started to suck when the stutter box thing happened, and I quit SG racing. It was more fun to just bracket race at full throttle. I'll do it again at some point in the future, save some money, and maybe have more fun.
Full power bracket racing is a good thing to me, just don't like the feeling of a launch, then letting the car fall on it's face only to have it blast off again.
Posted By: atoetly
Re: Thank God for bracket racing - 02/25/09 04:31 AM
Quote:
My what big.................Tires you have, and wasn't it someone that looks just like you that bought a new aluminum block. The rest of us peons will just have to make do with our old tractor motors.
Yes and I took a whole season off to afford the aluminum block. Now when I become one of those that inherited their daddys daddys business and goes into the office around 10:30am to check on their "Employees" and leaves at noon for the rest of the day to go "Class race" with their Roller cam 600 plus cubic inch, tubed chassis, wanna be prostocks I will quit bracket racing? 
Posted By: Leigh
Re: Thank God for bracket racing - 02/25/09 04:36 AM
Well, let's see. From my personal perspective: I have been bracket racing since 1978, play the 5 string banjo (2007 GF-85) and used to (heavy on the "used to") chew the chitt out of most tobacco products in the late 70's, early 80's.
Posted By: bill_greenwood
Re: Thank God for bracket racing - 02/25/09 06:16 AM
Shoot, I can't afford a tractor motor. Gotta settle for a bus motor in my heap.
Bracket racing's where it's at.
Posted By: Cab_Burge
Re: Thank God for bracket racing - 02/25/09 07:01 AM
Allen, what track is that in this picture and are you living in Bend now? If so (in Bend) cotact me if you want aboutr making a plan on whuppen up on them silver Camaro
Posted By: slantzilla
Re: Thank God for bracket racing - 02/25/09 07:59 AM
Another life long bracket racer here.
It always cracks me up that a lot of guys who hate bracket racing run a "heads-up" class that has an index. Any class with an index is just a bracket class that your dial is set for you.
True heads-up racing is just too expensive for me. It is fun watching all the guys cry on Yellowbullet about how much money gets spent though, especially when someone bombs a record.
Posted By: atoetly
Re: Thank God for bracket racing - 02/25/09 01:41 PM
Quote:
Allen, what track is that in this picture and are you living in Bend now? If so (in Bend) cotact me if you want aboutr making a plan on whuppen up on them silver Camaro
Cab that picture is from the portland track. No I do not live in bend the economy there sucks! Now as far as those two silver camaros go I plan on a severe azz whooping for both even though they are great folks!
Posted By: dannysbee
Re: Thank God for bracket racing - 02/25/09 02:04 PM
Bracket Racing is a blast, those that run it down are usually the ones that stink at it or don't know anything about it.
Posted By: torredcuda
Re: Thank God for bracket racing - 02/25/09 02:17 PM
Quote:
I like bracket racing, and did that more than anything. I ran a SG car for a long time, and loved it. It started to suck when the stutter box thing happened, and I quit SG racing. It was more fun to just bracket race at full throttle. I'll do it again at some point in the future, save some money, and maybe have more fun.
Full power bracket racing is a good thing to me, just don't like the feeling of a launch, then letting the car fall on it's face only to have it blast off again.
Man,I HATE watching throttle stop racing-light turns green,hit the gas and car falls flat on it`s face.NHo fun to watch for spectators and I can`t think it would be much fun as a driver.
Posted By: BobR
Re: Thank God for bracket racing - 02/25/09 02:46 PM
Quote:
Bracket Racing is a blast, those that run it down are usually the ones that stink at it or don't know anything about it.
I've done both and it's OK as a stop gap but I enjoy the challenge of making the car as fast as possible within rule guidelines. This involves innovation and out-of-the-box thinking in a lot of cases. I don't even drive any more but I am enjoying what I do as much or more than when I did drive. Heads up racing isn't for everyone hence bracket racing.
Posted By: Hemi Allstate
Re: Thank God for bracket racing - 02/25/09 03:20 PM
Quote:
Quote:
If there wasn't bracket racing, I don't have any idea what class I would have to compete in! I am sure I wouldn't have much of a chance though!
Henry J's Rock....very nice...
Bracket Racing as far as I'm concerned has been the backbone of drag racing....not the beginning I agree, but what I believe has kept the sport and local tracks alive for many years....
Rickster
Thanks Rickster,
I used to do some class racing in the late 60s /early 70s. I enjoyed it a lot. But then I wanted to go as fast as possible, on a limited budget. So I bought a light weight car and put in the most powerful engine I could build. That meant bracket racing, as there was no way to run Altered or Gas on my budget. 
I still want to go as fast as I can afford and that will mean bracket racing for me.
I can't wait!!!
Mark
Posted By: codfish
Re: Thank God for bracket racing - 02/25/09 07:21 PM
Quote:
The only form of racing where the brain is mightier than the wallet...
Funny but true.
codfish
Posted By: 540dust
Re: Thank God for bracket racing - 02/25/09 11:19 PM
Quote:
The only form of racing where the brain is mightier than the wallet...
Actually, I think that covers all forms of racing.
Posted By: rickstershemi
Re: Thank God for bracket racing - 02/25/09 11:39 PM
Quote:
Quote:
I like bracket racing, and did that more than anything. I ran a SG car for a long time, and loved it. It started to suck when the stutter box thing happened, and I quit SG racing. It was more fun to just bracket race at full throttle. I'll do it again at some point in the future, save some money, and maybe have more fun.
Full power bracket racing is a good thing to me, just don't like the feeling of a launch, then letting the car fall on it's face only to have it blast off again.
Man,I HATE watching throttle stop racing-light turns green,hit the gas and car falls flat on it`s face.NHo fun to watch for spectators and I can`t think it would be much fun as a driver.
Jeff, I have to agree that T/S Index Racing is boring for the spectators, but from a driver's standpoint it's anything but boring.
I leave on the vert at 6,000 rpm, pull the wheels out of the beams, drop to 3500 rpm .150 out and on the stop for approx. 2.5 sec @ 3500 rpm for a 1/4 mile run and mph @ 163+ on a 9.90 index....NOTHING BORING ABOUT THAT...
Rickster
Posted By: Anonymous
Post deleted by Defbob - 02/26/09 12:38 AM
Posted By: RAT PATROL
Re: Thank God for bracket racing - 02/26/09 01:18 AM
Quote:
Quote:
My what big.................Tires you have, and wasn't it someone that looks just like you that bought a new aluminum block. The rest of us peons will just have to make do with our old tractor motors.
Yes and I took a whole season off to afford the aluminum block. Now when I become one of those that inherited their daddys daddys business and goes into the office around 10:30am to check on their "Employees" and leaves at noon for the rest of the day to go "Class race" with their Roller cam 600 plus cubic inch, tubed chassis, wanna be prostocks I will quit bracket racing?
Yes, I did inherit my Dad's job (Construction Worker)but it appears I got shorted on the employees, 600 inches, and tubed chassis. I hope we both can be running for the Mopar Nationals. I take nothing for granted anymore. P.S. I want a lightweight crankshaft.
Posted By: hemidup
Re: Thank God for bracket racing - 02/26/09 01:33 AM
Back in the 70's I use to class race at both Minnesota Dragways and Northstar. One of my last cars back then ran in HS/A and had a blast with it until I decided to go faster and got thrown into FFX/A. I lost alot running FFX/A and didn't have the cash to go any faster so I decided to start bracket racing which put the fun back into it way back then.
Posted By: RemCharger
Re: Thank God for bracket racing - 02/26/09 01:56 AM
Quote:
Quote:
The only form of racing where the brain is mightier than the wallet...
Actually, I think that covers all forms of racing.
Well, Theres no way in he!! I could ever beat a heads up car, but on the other hand...... 
Posted By: Anonymous
Post deleted by Defbob - 02/26/09 02:01 AM
Posted By: rickstershemi
Re: Thank God for bracket racing - 02/26/09 02:06 AM
Quote:
Just to crash this bracket racer's love-in....
Is there another form of racing out there, any form at all, where the first competitor to reach the finish line loses because they went too fast? Honestly....just asking. I don't even know why its called "racing" to begin with. Think about it. A 16 second car can potentially beat a 10 second car, if the 16 second car has a better package. I think it should be renamed, Consistency Contest. Yeah I know, it doesn't sound as cool or sexy, but it better describes what's going on. Think about my comments before y'all get insulted and defensive. Yes, I already understand that it takes a certain amount of driver skill and ability to set up the car for consistency so it can go rounds. And no, 1FastMopar didn't ask me to write all this. Now, who can make a reasonable argument as to where my comments are all wrong?
One Question First Dave: What class do you race in...???
Rickster
Posted By: RemCharger
Re: Thank God for bracket racing - 02/26/09 02:27 AM
Quote:
Just to crash this bracket racer's love-in....
Is there another form of racing out there, any form at all, where the first competitor to reach the finish line loses because they went too fast? Honestly....just asking. I don't even know why its called "racing" to begin with. Think about it. A 16 second car can potentially beat a 10 second car, if the 16 second car has a better package. I think it should be renamed, Consistency Contest. Yeah I know, it doesn't sound as cool or sexy, but it better describes what's going on. Think about my comments before y'all get insulted and defensive. Yes, I already understand that it takes a certain amount of driver skill and ability to set up the car for consistency so it can go rounds. And no, 1FastMopar didn't ask me to write all this. Now, who can make a reasonable argument as to where my comments are all wrong?
If you have 10 eight second cars, and a 7 second car pulls up at a heads up deal,, would you call that a race? I would call it a wallet contest. And there is already a winner before it begins 
. When everyone is on equal footing, NOW you find out who can really race, and who the clowns are that can't figure out why their multi$$$ car can't win 
Don't get me wrong, everything has its place. But I'd rather know at the end of the day who the winner is, than at the begining. 
Posted By: jamesc
Re: Thank God for bracket racing - 02/26/09 02:33 AM
Quote:
Yes, I already understand that it takes a certain amount of driver skill and ability to set up the car for consistency so it can go rounds.
well i won't dispute any of your points but this one...it takes a little more than "a certain" amount. if you add in the super class racers which should be added it takes a freakin mountain of skill when there are plenty of races being decided in thousandths or even tenths. you think there is any other type of racing where drivers are putting up the consistant accuracy that bracket/super racers are? yea a lot of the heads up classes are cool and require skill (as well as bottomless pockets) not dissing them but in a lot of cases it's all about cutting a check not a light
Posted By: Quicktree
Re: Thank God for bracket racing - 02/26/09 02:36 AM
Quote:
Just to crash this bracket racer's love-in....
Is there another form of racing out there, any form at all, where the first competitor to reach the finish line loses because they went too fast? Honestly....just asking. I don't even know why its called "racing" to begin with. Think about it. A 16 second car can potentially beat a 10 second car, if the 16 second car has a better package. I think it should be renamed, Consistency Contest. Yeah I know, it doesn't sound as cool or sexy, but it better describes what's going on. Think about my comments before y'all get insulted and defensive. Yes, I already understand that it takes a certain amount of driver skill and ability to set up the car for consistency so it can go rounds. And no, 1FastMopar didn't ask me to write all this. Now, who can make a reasonable argument as to where my comments are all wrong?
don't you have some lug nuts to polish?
Posted By: dirtybee
Re: Thank God for bracket racing - 02/26/09 03:05 AM
Quote:
Think about it. A 16 second car can potentially beat a 10 second car, if the 16 second car has a better package.
if the 16 second car has a better package. you pretty much said it all right there.
Posted By: BobR
Re: Thank God for bracket racing - 02/26/09 03:55 AM
"Now, who can make a reasonable argument as to where my comments are all wrong?"
I can't.
Posted By: BobR
Re: Thank God for bracket racing - 02/26/09 04:06 AM
Quote:
Quote:
Yes, I already understand that it takes a certain amount of driver skill and ability to set up the car for consistency so it can go rounds.
well i won't dispute any of your points but this one...it takes a little more than "a certain" amount. if you add in the super class racers which should be added it takes a freakin mountain of skill when there are plenty of races being decided in thousandths or even tenths. you think there is any other type of racing where drivers are putting up the consistant accuracy that bracket/super racers are? yea a lot of the heads up classes are cool and require skill (as well as bottomless pockets) not dissing them but in a lot of cases it's all about cutting a check not a light
Running heads up does not have to be hugely expensive but it probably cost more than most bracket racing. Just because you spend a lot of money guarantees you exactly nothing. Yes you need good parts but that's only part of the equation. In the heads up racing we do we use 10.5W tires on a car that has to run 6.80 to have a chance. Every single aspect(converter, suspension, tire pressure, shock setting, two step, rear end ratio, wheelie bar height and on and on) of the car has to be correct. You have to figure how much power you take out of the engine to get it off of the starting line and where to put it back in. The car will wheelie at half track if the power ramps back in too quickly. This type of racing is a completely different animal. And you still have to cut a good light.
Posted By: jamesc
Re: Thank God for bracket racing - 02/26/09 04:50 AM
im not at all questioning that it takes skill to run at that level just that predominately it's a measure of finances as opposed to skill. you can be a good racer with little funds and win at bracket racing but no matter how good of a racer you are in the majority of heads up (no breakout) classes unless you have the funding you're an also ran. hugely expensive is a relative term but in the world i live in (and i'm not broke) running 6.80's on a 10.5 IS hugely expensive...how many people can afford to run a machine like that? i have great respect for these heads up classes and they field some absolutely incredible equipment but the bottom line is the majority of the time the guy with the most money not the guy with the most skill is gonna win simple as that
Posted By: moparacer
Re: Thank God for bracket racing - 02/26/09 05:11 AM
nothing like pulling to the line knowing full well you have a guy covered by a second and the only way he can beat you is if the earth suddenly splits wide open in your lane and swallows you up.....
Your 100K ride against his 25K ride.....
Yep that's suspense alright....And what I see 99 percent of the time at the local HU races.
Thing is, even though HU racing is not my cup of tea, I dont go out of my way to bash it on the Internet forums, and have a lot of respect for those guys that do push the envelope.....
Cant say the same for the HU guys opinions of bracket racers though......
Posted By: 540dust
Re: Thank God for bracket racing - 02/26/09 05:23 AM
Quote:
Just to crash this bracket racer's love-in....
Is there another form of racing out there, any form at all, where the first competitor to reach the finish line loses because they went too fast? Honestly....just asking. I don't even know why its called "racing" to begin with. Think about it. A 16 second car can potentially beat a 10 second car, if the 16 second car has a better package. I think it should be renamed, Consistency Contest. Yeah I know, it doesn't sound as cool or sexy, but it better describes what's going on. Think about my comments before y'all get insulted and defensive. Yes, I already understand that it takes a certain amount of driver skill and ability to set up the car for consistency so it can go rounds. And no, 1FastMopar didn't ask me to write all this. Now, who can make a reasonable argument as to where my comments are all wrong?
It really doesn't seem you understand at all, yes there are other forms of sportsman racing that the first to the finish is the loser, super comp, super gas, hot rod, and super rod, super street, and quick rod would be a few. Quote "Think about it. A 16 second car can potentially beat a 10 second car, if the 16 second car has a better package." .... Well, not unless its a special event, you see that's why the call it bracket racing, because you compete in brackets separated by different ET's normally a 16 second car would not compete against a 10 second car, they would compete in separate "brackets"... bracket racing, you see. After you come the the realization that there is always someone faster and in order to compete "heads up" that there have to be rules to separate the faster cars from the slower cars, Bracket racing starts to make a lot of sense. A simple way of getting the cars out there who want to race out there doing what they love to do, race and compete. It appears your comments are wrong.
Posted By: Triple Threat
Re: Thank God for bracket racing - 02/26/09 05:31 AM
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Just to crash this bracket racer's love-in....
Is there another form of racing out there, any form at all, where the first competitor to reach the finish line loses because they went too fast? Honestly....just asking. I don't even know why its called "racing" to begin with. Think about it. A 16 second car can potentially beat a 10 second car, if the 16 second car has a better package. I think it should be renamed, Consistency Contest. Yeah I know, it doesn't sound as cool or sexy, but it better describes what's going on. Think about my comments before y'all get insulted and defensive. Yes, I already understand that it takes a certain amount of driver skill and ability to set up the car for consistency so it can go rounds. And no, 1FastMopar didn't ask me to write all this. Now, who can make a reasonable argument as to where my comments are all wrong?
One Question First Dave: What class do you race in...???
Rickster
I'm not trying to attack you here Dave, but I am gonna take some jabs at you for arguments sake. For example, I know you have worked hard long hours on your duster to get it to where you have, I've watched it transform over the 8+ years I have been a part of this board. But No matter how many hours I put into my dart, without the money, I'm not even in the same ball park, I can pretty much guarantee you have more money into your short block than I have in my whole car.
I think the point here with this post was that us bracket racers are glad there is still a viable place we can go, race, and compete against one another, no matter the size of our checking accounts or more importantly our credit limits Too many sports now a days have lost their luster or their appeal to many because they have been turned into a game of who has the most money. I understand some teams don't have huge budgets relative to the likes of big namers, but they still have a bunch of money invested.
Personally I would love to race heads up, as would probably the majority of bracket racers, but financially and geographically its not really an option for me at this point. So I do what I can, improve my car when I can, but regardless, I have fun, which is what its all about. If your whole basis of your argument is that its not really racing if a slower car can win, well that is a matter of opinion.
Posted By: Sport440
Re: Thank God for bracket racing - 02/26/09 05:51 AM
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Just to crash this bracket racer's love-in....
Is there another form of racing out there, any form at all, where the first competitor to reach the finish line loses because they went too fast? Honestly....just asking. I don't even know why its called "racing" to begin with. Think about it. A 16 second car can potentially beat a 10 second car, if the 16 second car has a better package. I think it should be renamed, Consistency Contest. Yeah I know, it doesn't sound as cool or sexy, but it better describes what's going on. Think about my comments before y'all get insulted and defensive. Yes, I already understand that it takes a certain amount of driver skill and ability to set up the car for consistency so it can go rounds. And no, 1FastMopar didn't ask me to write all this.
Now, who can make a reasonable argument as to where my comments are all wrong?
Ask and you shall recieve! 
Posted By: wyoming
Re: Thank God for bracket racing - 02/26/09 06:10 AM
To tell you the truth Duster Dave, I could care less about how you feel about bracket racing, or anyone else for that matter, it is just a type of racing that a lot of us enjoy and can afford, I don't think any of us will quit because of your or anyone elses opinions of it
Posted By: MegaDart
Re: Thank God for bracket racing - 02/26/09 11:43 AM
just consider the source, Ddave thinks test-n-tune is a race
I could probably count the total # of passes he's made to date on one hand, and I doubt he has ever WON a round of competition in his life. I consider his comments extremely uneducatated
As I have said before, most that bash bracket racing have either never tried it, or got their azz handed to them and went home crying
For me turning on win lights, .00 or.000 rt's, running deadon, beating the guy/girl you never beat before and visiting the pay window are enough to keep me going back!!
gee dave, last time I bracket raced the Dart I took home a check for $2000, almost $3000 in contingency money, a 2' IHRA Ironman and an free guarenteed entry to race for Top Sportsman World Championship in Oct. That race alone could net in excess of $100,000 in purse, contingency and corporate sponsorship. So you think I should just quit cause the breakout rule applies
Posted By: atoetly
Re: Thank God for bracket racing - 02/26/09 01:58 PM
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My what big.................Tires you have, and wasn't it someone that looks just like you that bought a new aluminum block. The rest of us peons will just have to make do with our old tractor motors.
Yes and I took a whole season off to afford the aluminum block. Now when I become one of those that inherited their daddys daddys business and goes into the office around 10:30am to check on their "Employees" and leaves at noon for the rest of the day to go "Class race" with their Roller cam 600 plus cubic inch, tubed chassis, wanna be prostocks I will quit bracket racing?
Yes, I did inherit my Dad's job (Construction Worker)but it appears I got shorted on the employees, 600 inches, and tubed chassis. I hope we both can be running for the Mopar Nationals. I take nothing for granted anymore. P.S. I want a lightweight crankshaft.
That comment was not directed at you as I have no idea of what your situation is. But I have personal experiences of similar scenario's.
Now for Mr Millers protege. I could give two fecal matters what either you or Mr Miller think about bracket racers or bracket racing! The BEST thing that has happened to this board was his disapperance!
Posted By: savoyracer
Re: Thank God for bracket racing - 02/26/09 02:02 PM
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"Now, who can make a reasonable argument as to where my comments are all wrong?"
I can't.
........I can!! Just stand at the finish line and watch, 
it will become very obvious in a very short period of time as to whether or not it can be called "a race". When I started drag racing as a kid in the '60s, The ONLY racing available, was class racing. When you get beat by two or three seconds every time, that is not fun. I believe that If not for the advent of bracket racing, even you would not be here today, talking about heads-up, nor would you have a track to run on! We can all thank two men for coming up with this concept, and literally saving drag racing from going the way of dinosaurs. My hats off to Mickey Thompson, and C.J. [pappy] Hart, 
may they both RIP
Posted By: dannysbee
Re: Thank God for bracket racing - 02/26/09 02:09 PM
Bracket racing is more about the driver and less about the car. There are advantages to having the faster car but a slower car can still win. You can put a good driver in a average car and still win but a crappy driver will lose in the best car possible. Its about the competition and your ability as a driver.
As far as Bracket racing not being a race I beg to differ. Every round you have to launch the car and get to the finish line first to win. You just can't get there faster than you said you would. It's just like a red light start, just at the other end of the track.
It's a race to perfection, both cars have the equal oppertunity to make the perfect run. The car that comes closest to perfection wins.
Posted By: BobR
Re: Thank God for bracket racing - 02/26/09 02:16 PM
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im not at all questioning that it takes skill to run at that level just that predominately it's a measure of finances as opposed to skill. you can be a good racer with little funds and win at bracket racing but no matter how good of a racer you are in the majority of heads up (no breakout) classes unless you have the funding you're an also ran. hugely expensive is a relative term but in the world i live in (and i'm not broke) running 6.80's on a 10.5 IS hugely expensive...how many people can afford to run a machine like that? i have great respect for these heads up classes and they field some absolutely incredible equipment but the bottom line is the majority of the time the guy with the most money not the guy with the most skill is gonna win simple as that
What you say is generally correct but here's my team's story. Last season we ran a basic SBF/nitrous setup. This is the lightest competitive combination allowed in our class. Our thinking was it would be easier to get a light car with moderate power down the track than a heavy car with more power. Out of 13 races we were in 9 finals and had 4 wins. There were 3 cars in our class that had at least 2 tenths on us on a perfect run. Perfect runs are hard to come by in a tire limited class, however. We ran a best of 7.12/196 last year(class record 6.80/210) but were in the championship chase for both associations we raced in. We were by far the least funded of any competitive car in our class but still did well. This year we threw some money at it and stepped up. Now we are expected to win BUT we still have to get down the track. Our first race is this weekend in AZ.
Posted By: torredcuda
Re: Thank God for bracket racing - 02/26/09 02:19 PM
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I like bracket racing, and did that more than anything. I ran a SG car for a long time, and loved it. It started to suck when the stutter box thing happened, and I quit SG racing. It was more fun to just bracket race at full throttle. I'll do it again at some point in the future, save some money, and maybe have more fun.
Full power bracket racing is a good thing to me, just don't like the feeling of a launch, then letting the car fall on it's face only to have it blast off again.
Man,I HATE watching throttle stop racing-light turns green,hit the gas and car falls flat on it`s face.NHo fun to watch for spectators and I can`t think it would be much fun as a driver.
Jeff, I have to agree that T/S Index Racing is boring for the spectators, but from a driver's standpoint it's anything but boring.
I leave on the vert at 6,000 rpm, pull the wheels out of the beams, drop to 3500 rpm .150 out and on the stop for approx. 2.5 sec @ 3500 rpm for a 1/4 mile run and mph @ 163+ on a 9.90 index....NOTHING BORING ABOUT THAT...
Rickster
Ok,I stand corrected -in some cases(like yours) it may not be boring to drive but I still can`t stand watching it.
Posted By: justinp61
Re: Thank God for bracket racing - 02/26/09 02:51 PM
Bracket racing is all I can afford to do, in fact I don't have a "race" car. Mine is a street/strip car, in no way could I justify having a "race" car just sitting. I work 12 hour swing shifts and only have two week ends off a month. With a family there is no guarantee that I will get to race even once while I'm off. At least mine can be driven to work or out for ice cream if I want. I've never ran heads up so I can't comment on driver skills. In brackets the driver who does the best job on both ends will win 99% of the time. I share the opinion of some other members on index racing, it's just a different form of brackets, so it's not heads up racing either. I also agree most of the guys that bash brackets suck at it. I'd be embarassed if I lined up in my $100k car and got spanked off the line and then out driven on the big end by someone in a $2k beater. Guys with big money cars don't impress me at all, neither do lug nut polishers.
Posted By: rickstershemi
Re: Thank God for bracket racing - 02/26/09 02:57 PM
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I like bracket racing, and did that more than anything. I ran a SG car for a long time, and loved it. It started to suck when the stutter box thing happened, and I quit SG racing. It was more fun to just bracket race at full throttle. I'll do it again at some point in the future, save some money, and maybe have more fun.
Full power bracket racing is a good thing to me, just don't like the feeling of a launch, then letting the car fall on it's face only to have it blast off again.
Man,I HATE watching throttle stop racing-light turns green,hit the gas and car falls flat on it`s face.NHo fun to watch for spectators and I can`t think it would be much fun as a driver.
Jeff, I have to agree that T/S Index Racing is boring for the spectators, but from a driver's standpoint it's anything but boring.
I leave on the vert at 6,000 rpm, pull the wheels out of the beams, drop to 3500 rpm .150 out and on the stop for approx. 2.5 sec @ 3500 rpm for a 1/4 mile run and mph @ 163+ on a 9.90 index....NOTHING BORING ABOUT THAT...
Rickster
Ok,I stand corrected -in some cases(like yours) it may not be boring to drive but I still can`t stand watching it.
Hey, I don't like watching it either...
It was stated in and earlier post that: You never see the Bracket or Index guys bashing heads up racing....Hell I love going to the Street Nats...!!!!!!
Just Erks me that the Heads Up dudes bash on Bracket Racers all the time....Add em up we outnumber you by a very wide margin....
and I have to agree with the statement about Mr Millers absence from the forum 
Rickster
Posted By: Anonymous
Post deleted by Defbob - 02/26/09 03:07 PM
Posted By: Anonymous
Post deleted by Defbob - 02/26/09 03:10 PM
Posted By: Jacob Pitt
Re: Thank God for bracket racing - 02/26/09 03:29 PM
I have been watching this and I have to bring up a point here.
When the comment was made about it not being racing if the slower car can win, that got me thinking. So if in a heads up race the slower of the two gets a holeshot win it really wasn't a race?
Man there isn't much racing going on then.
I am a bracket racer, a third generation bracket racer. My grandfather was inducted into the Texas Drag Racers Hall of Fame. Course he did his fair share of class racing because bracket racing wasn't around yet. I don't feel that my whole Family Tradition was a waste of time because we have been know to be some of the best "racers" around just because it was a bracket race. Racing is racing and winning is winning. I love bracket racing, and the people that do it are a great breed of people as well.
Posted By: hemiparts
Re: Thank God for bracket racing - 02/26/09 03:40 PM
Bracket racing/class racing is almost a science. You have to cut a light, guess how close you came to your reaction time then gauge how fast your car ran and if you need to run out the back to win or give up the stripe if you think the other car has gone to fast. All this is done in a matter of seconds while trying to handle a WOT race car going down the track.
Posted By: afxcoronet
Re: Thank God for bracket racing - 02/26/09 04:16 PM
I live for bracket racing, and work hard on my car and my driving...This year we are going to try some .90 racing, so it's going to be even more of a challenge, and w/ out a challenge what god is life...
Curtis
Posted By: torredcuda
Re: Thank God for bracket racing - 02/26/09 05:09 PM
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Jeff...I understand your feelings also...but if you ever see me at the track...come on over. I will show you how much is involved in T/S racing and how much fun it is to do. Heck...if its not a points race I'll let you take it down the track
Believe me,I can imagine how much is involved in trying to run a specific number-it`s hard enough to guess what my car is going to run without any changes and just air/temp differences.Like was said-bracket and index are very similar and both require cutting a light and running as close to your # as possible without breaking out.
Posted By: RAT PATROL
Re: Thank God for bracket racing - 02/26/09 10:56 PM
I enjoy bracket racing, the people, the atmosphere, the corn dogs. I like the idea that being the big dog in the am means nothing in the pm.
Posted By: SealockRacing
Re: Thank God for bracket racing - 02/26/09 11:16 PM
i come from a racing family, and pretty sure bracket racing is where its at!
its fun watching the big money guys go balls to the wall run after run, but i find bracket racing to be more entertaining.
its guys/ girls like me...
youve got to know your car, know what it will run, you have to be consistent at those times, you cant break out, or go too slow, you have to be almost spot on. and, unlike the big money guys, we race at the big end too! haha
John
Posted By: Bill_LBSR
Re: Thank God for bracket racing - 02/26/09 11:24 PM
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I just hope that Bracket Racing can still keep alot of these small tracks going like it has in the past.
Guess we will find out around here. A local track ( 75-80 ) is re-opening (amazing in itself) and the only racing they are going to have is Heads Up Racing and Index Classes..............no bracket racing.
Posted By: Steve1118
Re: Thank God for bracket racing - 02/27/09 12:44 AM
Is 75-80 going to be quarter mile? I had heard rumors it was going to be eighth.
Posted By: Kevins493
Re: Thank God for bracket racing - 02/27/09 02:40 AM
The index classes will be 1/4.
Posted By: slantzilla
Re: Thank God for bracket racing - 02/27/09 07:46 AM
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I just hope that Bracket Racing can still keep alot of these small tracks going like it has in the past.
Guess we will find out around here. A local track ( 75-80 ) is re-opening (amazing in itself) and the only racing they are going to have is Heads Up Racing and Index Classes..............no bracket racing.
Index classes are bracket racing with your dial already picked for you.
Posted By: 440dart
Re: Thank God for bracket racing - 02/27/09 12:58 PM
Bracket racing was!! fun to watch until, throttle stops, and delay boxes came into play, now its just plain boring boring boring, bash away thats my
Jack
Posted By: John
Re: Thank God for bracket racing - 02/27/09 02:44 PM
I have been racing off and on for 40 years so I have raced at NHRA events when they ran heads-up and I was there for the conversion to bracket racing. As many of you have stated, cost of racing was the main reason for the switch. Cubic dollars began dominating all the classes and many long-time racers dropped out because they were no longer competitive.
If it weren't for the bracket system, I doubt I would still be racing. Do I like bracket-style racing? No, not really, but it is better than NOT racing.
That being said, the real reason for my post is to present another idea that is being kicked around. An adaption of the Pinks All Out format may be tried and I think it combines the best parts of bracket racing and heads-up. Like Pinks All Out races, the competitors are given two qualifying runs and then the track staff groups them in the "tightest" 16 elapsed times. There could be several of these "tight 16" groups which would produce several classes. Each of these classes would then run all out (with a .05 (?) breakout to prevent qualifier sandbaggers) to determine class winners. There could also be a King of the Hill for the class winners.
There will be cars that won't fit into a "tight 16" group. These cars could compete in a traditional bracket race so that they wouldn't be sent home after making two qulifying passes.
Posted By: Bill_LBSR
Re: Thank God for bracket racing - 02/27/09 03:34 PM
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Is 75-80 going to be quarter mile? I had heard rumors it was going to be eighth.
Fridays and Saturdays will be 1/8 mile. Sundays will be quarter mile.
Posted By: Steve1118
Re: Thank God for bracket racing - 02/27/09 03:45 PM
I'm in the minority here, but I have always felt that brackets, especially the mod (IHRA) and Pro (NHRA) could draw spectators at a local level if marketed right. Keep the costs down....don't charge kids, make it affordable for the entire family. Those kids are the future, keep them exposed.
Think about the local track's strengths....the absolute different variety of cars, old MoPars, A bodies, AMC cars, vintage Camaros, Fords, even hot rods and old coupes. Altereds, dragsters, even interesting home built stuff. It's like a car show, only the cars go fast. Newcomers can wander the pits and see the cars close up and talk to the people.
The key is to educate, and for the promotor to promote the stuffing out of the local heavies to the local papers and media outlets. Make heroes out of the local hitters. Keep the program simple....tossing the electronics and throttle stops, even with the breakout the sport is not that hard to understand. Submit articles to the local paper by good writers, with good, well written stories describing close points races, or human interest stories. Promote "special" shows that old guys can relate to, NSS races, Supercharged Warriors, etc. Show the regular folks that there is such a wide gap between NHRA "Championship" racing and what we do it is unbelievable. Show them that they can see racing and racers locally put on a terrific show.....for cheap.
It may take some effort, but it could be done. Perhaps you will never compete with the local Professional baseball team for the spectator gate, but you could increase the interest and the gate substantially. The increased exposure could also create a large number of future racers.
What has gotten me really thinking about this is the phenominal success of shows like Pinks All Out. 38,000 fans were at Norwalk to watch my buddy David Ross win that event with his BGR Charger, a feild full of basically bracket cars. The good racing, the variety of cars, and spectators responded.
It can be done. I know there are many that disagree. But, I have been thinking about this for a long time.....it takes a promotor who is willing to work hard and try it.
Posted By: Going Commando
Re: Thank God for bracket racing - 02/27/09 04:18 PM
I want to race at your track!
thankfully there are foot-brake classes with-in the bracket classes.
Posted By: 440dart
Re: Thank God for bracket racing - 02/27/09 05:58 PM
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I'm in the minority here, but I have always felt that brackets, especially the mod (IHRA) and Pro (NHRA) could draw spectators at a local level if marketed right. Keep the costs down....don't charge kids, make it affordable for the entire family. Those kids are the future, keep them exposed.
Think about the local track's strengths....the absolute different variety of cars, old MoPars, A bodies, AMC cars, vintage Camaros, Fords, even hot rods and old coupes. Altereds, dragsters, even interesting home built stuff. It's like a car show, only the cars go fast. Newcomers can wander the pits and see the cars close up and talk to the people.
The key is to educate, and for the promotor to promote the stuffing out of the local heavies to the local papers and media outlets. Make heroes out of the local hitters. Keep the program simple....tossing the electronics and throttle stops, even with the breakout the sport is not that hard to understand. Submit articles to the local paper by good writers, with good, well written stories describing close points races, or human interest stories. Promote "special" shows that old guys can relate to, NSS races, Supercharged Warriors, etc. Show the regular folks that there is such a wide gap between NHRA "Championship" racing and what we do it is unbelievable. Show them that they can see racing and racers locally put on a terrific show.....for cheap.
It may take some effort, but it could be done. Perhaps you will never compete with the local Professional baseball team for the spectator gate, but you could increase the interest and the gate substantially. The increased exposure could also create a large number of future racers.
What has gotten me really thinking about this is the phenominal success of shows like Pinks All Out. 38,000 fans were at Norwalk to watch my buddy David Ross win that event with his BGR Charger, a feild full of basically bracket cars. The good racing, the variety of cars, and spectators responded.
It can be done. I know there are many that disagree. But, I have been thinking about this for a long time.....it takes a promotor who is willing to work hard and try it.
They have this type of show now its called NMCA, its real close to what you outlined. The cost to get in is cheap, I got tickets at NAPA auto parts for free. Jack
Posted By: Steve1118
Re: Thank God for bracket racing - 02/27/09 06:24 PM
Yeah, we run NSS, and we intend to give the NMCA event at MG a shot this year.
But, I was speaking of a regular weekly show, at a local track.
Posted By: RumbleVid
Re: Thank God for bracket racing - 02/27/09 07:09 PM
Don't forget to buy-back......deja vu drag racing.
Posted By: Jacob Pitt
Re: Thank God for bracket racing - 02/27/09 07:18 PM
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Don't forget to buy-back......deja vu drag racing.
We don't have buy-backs around here.
