1. Darin Morgain stated "Some mistakenly believe that if turbulence occurs after peak valve lift that its of no consequence. Nothing could be further from the truth! I have taken heads that went turbulent or flat out went backwards (which is the case for the LS3 and LS7 heads) after .650 lift and decreased low lift flow in order to make it keep going smoothly up to 1". The end result was more power every time and no loss in low end TQ. The head must be smooth all the way up past peak lift."





And that my Friend is why I went digital on my flowbench. I can pick up turbulence way before you can with fluid manometers. my son can be 36 feet away and working on his car and hear a head going bad. This is also why lots of guys are testing heads at 40 inches of depression or more at times.

I probably shouldn't admit this here , but I've been looking at a bunch of SBC LS7 head stuff (Hmmm... possibly comparable port volume, same size 2.20" intake valve, good flow #s w/ standard CNC job and shows improvements w/ additional work ), and reading old stuff on SpeedTalk posted by some people like Darin Morgan, and it's given me some ideas.

This I believe is how we learn stuff. I personally dont care about make or model. If it works apply it if you can and move on.

Great post. Matt

How exactly did you widen the short turn? Pics along with these posts would be EXCELLENT!

Good news: I went back into the port, opened up the runner from 2.25 x 1.98 to 2.35 x 1.25; widened the short turn corners, laid back the SSR slightly, opened up the channel between the cylinder wall-side of the guide and blended that area more into the bowl.

Bad news: For all the work I did, the improvements were basically a wash... picked up a couple CFM at lower mid lifts, lost a couple of CFM at high lifts, and I confirmed the port starts to back up between .700" and .750"

Good news: I took a bunch of pictures.

Bad news: None of them are downloaded, and I'm sure a large % of them aren't going to be very good once I can review what I took.

Good news: I finally did some probing w/ the J-tipped velocity probe.

Bad news: I wasn't able to get very good readings and / or anything that looked "right".

Overall: A waste of my time.

this info wont be directly applicable to the std port heads, but i think it will give a good idea of what the differences are in flow between the new version heads vs the original ones that had the chamber farther away from the valves.

i had someone send me a MW Victor head they just got so i could flow it, and compare to some tests i have of the earlier version.
unfortunately, even this comparison isnt really "apples to apples".
the previous test was done in '09 on the version that comes with the valves, and the seats already cut.
that head i just flowed as it came right out of the box with the Edelbrock supplied valves.
this recent test was on a head that was bought as a "bare head", meaning unfinished guides, no valves, and uncut seats.
i honed the guides just enough to get the valves in, then cut the seats how i would normally do for these heads, but that isnt the same type of valve job as how they come when the seats are done at Edelbrock.
also, i used some Manley valves that are for an Indy head, so the exact shape of the valve is slightly different.
nonetheless, the difference in flow between the two heads, especially in the lower-mid lifts, is more than what i would expect to see by just changing the valves and tweeking the valve seat.
the new chambers are tucked in pretty tight around the valves, and there just isnt as much room for the air to exit the port......until you get the valve way off the seat.

so, my reason for posting this is, if the Procomp head is patterned after the original Victor head, then if you got some of the current Victor heads, you are probably not going to see low and mid-lift flow numbers like what you got out of the Procomp head without further reworking of the chamber to unshroud the valves.

anyway.....here is how the two chambers affect the MW heads

A- original Victor MW head, Edelbrock valves and valve job
B- latest Victor MW head, Manley valves, PRH valve job, very minor blending in bowl under seat

valve sizes for both tests are 2.25" intake/ 1.81" exhaust.
no chamber mods to either head.

intake:

lift-----A/B
.100--67.4/62.8
.200-141.3/118.3
.300-212.5/174.9
.400-259.2/228.1
.500-289.9/283.1
.550-306.0/308.5
.600-318.7/331.7
.650-328.3/329.1
.700-336.0/330.9
.750-347.5/338.4
.800-348.3/338.4

exhaust:

lift----A/B
.100--52.7/54.1
.200-109.2/99.2
.300-156.7/147.5
.400-191.8/183.5
.500-209.4/207.0
.550-214.5/214.5
.600-218.4/218.2
.650-222.3/220.7
.700-223.1/223.1
.750-224.3/224.3
.800-224.3/224.3

one other thing....and Brian can probably answer this, since i have done very little with Victor heads.....this new head seemed like the intake short turn was shaped differently than how i remembered the original Victor heads as being.
this new head had what i would describe as a more "normal" final approach from the floor to the seat.
i had recalled the earlier Victors as having the floor start to fall away pretty far away from the seat.
it reminded me more of a stage 6 head floor, whereas this head didnt remind of a stage 6 at all.

EDIT:
i saw the pics on the other post, and that Procomp head definitely has the early style chamber.

For anyone who wasn't aware I started a related post that also has some crappy pictures I took, look HERE.

Figured I'd post one last update before putting the Procomp head aside for a while. This has been a side project simply because I wanted to know what I could come up with myself for future reference, especially with my having a completely untouched set of the original Victors on hand.

So....
- A, B & C were what I'd posted previously above

- D is the result from what I mentioned on 10.4.2013 as “I went back into the port, opened up the runner from 2.25 x 1.198 to 2.35 x 1.25; widened the short turn corners, laid back the SSR slightly, opened up the channel between the cylinder wall-side of the guide and blended that area more into the bowl.”

- E is what I did in response to some feedback here, especially after seeing the high-lift #s start to go the wrong way between B & C and C & D. This work can be summed up as widening and laying back the SSR more, opening up the long-wall side of the entry to 1.30”, cleaning up some “stuff” in the chamber and doing what I expect is the final blending & polishing on this particular runner.

Lift ------ A ------ B ------ C ------ D ------ E
.050 --- 33.8 --- 31.6 --- 32.0 --- 31.6 --- 31.6
.100 --- 67.6 --- 65.9 --- 66.7 --- 66.3 --- 67.1
.200 -- 136.7 -- 139.7 -- 141.6 -- 142.6 -- 143.6
.300 -- 192.6 -- 202.4 -- 206.6 -- 208.0 -- 209.4
.400 -- 245.2 -- 259.5 -- 264.3 -- 264.3 -- 267.4
.450 -- 265.8 -- 281.8 -- 287.1 -- 287.1 -- 287.1
.500 -- 287.1 -- 302.2 -- 303.9 -- 306.3 -- 309.8
.550 -- 293.8 -- 317.0 -- 318.7 -- 318.7 -- 322.3
.600 -- 304.5 -- 325.8 -- 325.8 -- 327.4 -- 329.4
.650 -- 313.4 -- 333.1 -- 331.2 -- 331.2 -- 335.0
.700 -- 315.2 -- 338.8 -- 337.0 -- 335.0 -- 340.7
.750 ------------------------------------- 331.2 -- 336.9

Looks like I have managed to find “something” in the higher lifts that responded to the additional short-turn work that people on here suggested.

Here are the "E" results from above vs. the average of all 8 #s from my Hughes CNC Victors. My work still comes up short in places, but I've found some decent results for the effort.

Lift ---- C ------ H
.050 --- 32.4 --- 33.3
.100 --- 67.1 --- 71.1
.200 -- 143.6 -- 153.6
.300 -- 209.4 -- 221.6
.400 -- 267.4 -- 273.1
.450 -- 287.1 -- 294.1
.500 -- 309.8 -- 310.2
.550 -- 322.3 -- 322.7
.600 -- 329.4 -- 336.3
.650 -- 335.0 -- 343.0
.700 -- 340.7 -- 346.1

I'm OK bagging this for a bit until I have time to come back in the future to see what I can find starting w/ another runner. Any car-related time I have in the immediate future will be spent working on The MoPig, since everything around here is starting to shut down as the colder weather moves in.

TTFN on this topic.

Not wanting to Hijack Brad post about these heads, but how can I tell tell on the Eddy Victor M.H which casting I have?

I've been thinking about porting the std. port Victor's I have here from the magazine article...I would like to do a cnc deal, but honestly I think the MW head would be the best to do a cnc program for.
If I ever get around to porting these I'll post some pics and info.

I'd really like to sell them too. I have TD rockers for them as well.
Sorry for pimp'n my shtuff...

After reading this post it seems you can buy these heads for
$520 a set bare and ootb almost be equal to the ported sb heads that will cost ya triple that.

Hmmmmmm

I'm going to make a " generic" post to all this, as well as kind of piggy back to Dwaynes other ProComp post. I dont have time to do much more.sorry.

I have an actual dead nuts comparison, on a car of a ProComp " Victor", vs a Eddy Victor ( hughes CNC) head, on a car, with no other changes. The car is a 68 GTX, 3570# bracket car. Last Fall, the car would run ( 511CI) 9.50-9.60s with the STD port Pro Comps, .650 cam. Same car, year before, same combo, with CNC Victors, same ET's, but with 1-2MPH more, maybe a bit more in killer cold weather. The guy never rejets the car, just runs it as it wants, and dials from there. He is a VERY good bracket racer,former National Summit Champion, so he knows how to get a car downt he track. 511CI, M1 intake, 1050-8896, nothing special at all, 1.5 TD rockers. ( the rocker fitment SUCKS on the ProComps).I know you would all like way more info, but thats what I can provide, just too busy to be pulling all sorts of data out, and have to rely on whats stuck in my little brain for now.

What I can say about the ProComps, is the guides are the biggest issue in my opinion,( seats are fair) and they will wear out VERY quickly ( less than 50 runs even), as they are junk. Some sort of crappy phosphorous bronze. I have done RHS heads fairly recently, same issue, change to maganese bronze, problem solved. The heads work ok for what they are, certainly not anything I would " suggest", but as noted many times over, the cost to get them " right" is just too much. Changing out 16 valve guides, profiling, porting clean up, milling decks, new valve job, the average guy cant pay that bill for a cheap set of heads. Those that can do it themselves, it kind of turns into a mad scientist project, because " they can".Just sharing a real world story.

Those sound like the mw victors i bought from you last yr. What was the compression ratio of that 511?

this brings up a question for me, the castings a few different folks are using that are the "sidewinder" heads, are they replacing the guides or do they have better guides to begin with?