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Procomp BB head flow test ==> LAST UPDATE #1508098
09/26/13 07:35 PM
09/26/13 07:35 PM
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BradH Offline OP
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Long story short, I recently picked up a Procomp BB head to use for what I'm referring to as my "crash test dummy" porting R&D head. I tried to locate a single 75 cc Victor like my last set to do the same thing, but Jesse Robinson (RAMM) and I swapped some PMs and he confirmed that I could use a Procomp "clone" for the same purpose.

Before I purchased the head directly from Procomp in SoCal, I contacted Brian (ou812) at IMM about doing a good valve job on the head before I bothered to mess with it. Since his shop is only about an hour's drive from Procomp, I had them ship it directly to IMM, and he sent it to me once the work was done, along w/ a couple of Edelbrock valves as used w/ Victor heads.

To be blunt, other than the valve job, the Procomp head has enough fairly "ugly" things about it that I skipped even bothering to do a "before" flow test and grabbed the Makita. However, after having some questions re: the results, I picked the best looking (minimal casting flash, best short turn, etc.) of the clone's remaining three unported intake runners and picked the #3/6 for an “out-of-the-box plus a good valve job” test. That's shown in column A. This is the best I can do at this point to provide a “before” test.

Column B is the results from the first round of what I referred to as “basic prep” on #5/4 based on what looked to need work. This consisted of trimming down some big “humps” in the as-cast walls, cleaning up (but not reprofiling) the SSR, blending the valve job into the bowl, narrowing the guide, working the transition from the seat insert into the SSR, blending the CNC'd port opening, and touching up the chamber where the valve job had a stepped transition into it.

Column C is the results from doing some additional work to #5/4, such as widening the short turn, opening the wall near the plug more, and opening the bowl deeper on the exhaust-side of the port. Also, until now everything was primarily a cuttered finish, but I hit the reworked SSR w/ a 60-grit flapper and cleaned up the bowl w/ a 60-grit roll. No actual runner enlargement over the original design size was ever done.

Column D is the improvement between A and C, FWIW.

Lift ------ A ----- B ------ C ----- D
.050 --- 33.8 --- 31.6 --- 32.0 --- (1.8 )
.100 --- 67.6 --- 65.9 --- 66.7 --- (.9)
.200 -- 136.7-- 139.7 -- 141.6 --- 4.9
.300 -- 192.6 -- 202.4 -- 206.6 -- 14.0
.400 -- 245.2 -- 259.5 -- 264.3 -- 19.1
.450 -- 265.8 -- 281.8 -- 287.1 -- 21.3
.500 -- 287.1 -- 302.2 -- 303.9 -- 16.8
.550 -- 293.8 -- 317.0 -- 318.7 -- 24.9
.600 -- 304.5 -- 325.8 -- 325.8 -- 21.3
.650 -- 313.4 -- 333.1 -- 331.2 -- 17.8
.700 -- 315.2 -- 338.8 -- 337.0 -- 21.8

Something in the latest changes have begun to trade off .300-.500" improvements for small decreases above .600".

Despite having a 2.20" intake valve, the intake opening is only about 2.25" x 1.20" (standard BBM, not Max Wedge) which is more in line with a common small-block Chevy runner opening.

BTW, I have no intention of running Procomp heads and this purchase was strictly to give me a casting I could try and prototype some Edelbrock Victor standard-size ports of my own.


Last edited by BradH; 10/24/13 04:18 PM.
Re: Procomp BB head flow test [Re: BradH] #1508099
09/26/13 08:13 PM
09/26/13 08:13 PM
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Any backcut on thevalve. Jrob


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Re: Procomp BB head flow test [Re: RAMM] #1508100
09/26/13 10:29 PM
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Re: Procomp BB head flow test [Re: BradH] #1508101
09/27/13 12:45 AM
09/27/13 12:45 AM
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Quote:


Column D is the improvement between A and C, FWIW.
---------------------------------------------Sport
Lift ------ A ----- B ------ C ----- D -------Eddy
.050 --- 33.8 --- 31.6 --- 32.0 --- (1.8 )----NA-
.100 --- 67.6 --- 65.9 --- 66.7 --- (.9)-----71.5
.200 -- 136.7-- 139.7 -- 141.6 --- 4.9------152.8
.300 -- 192.6 -- 202.4 -- 206.6 -- 14.0-----219.4
.400 -- 245.2 -- 259.5 -- 264.3 -- 19.1-----270.7
.450 -- 265.8 -- 281.8 -- 287.1 -- 21.3-----288.4
.500 -- 287.1 -- 302.2 -- 303.9 -- 16.8-----298.0
.550 -- 293.8 -- 317.0 -- 318.7 -- 24.9-----306.3
.600 -- 304.5 -- 325.8 -- 325.8 -- 21.3-----311.7
.650 -- 313.4 -- 333.1 -- 331.2 -- 17.8-----311.7
.700 -- 315.2 -- 338.8 -- 337.0 -- 21.8-----309.9

Something in the latest changes have begun to trade off .300-.500" improvements for small decreases above .600".

Despite having a 2.20" intake valve, the intake opening is only about 2.25" x 1.20" (standard




Thanks for your posting on this, I dont know if using the Procomp head is a valid comparison or not to a actual Victor head.

For comparison purposes, I added my ported Eddy RPM heads flow numbers with a 2.14 valve, the intake opening is 2.50" x 1.24"

IMO, that ProComp head has some room for improvement, between .100-.450 lift.

And my heads could use some improvement from .450 on , as Eddy RPM,s can flow 320 or so @ .600+

Brad, had to get something going for you. You have some heavy hitters involved on this one. Yourself, Brian , and Jessie

Last edited by Sport440; 09/27/13 01:10 AM.
Re: Procomp BB head flow test [Re: BradH] #1508102
09/27/13 02:54 AM
09/27/13 02:54 AM
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Brian Hafliger Offline
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I've found improvements in the .500 lift range and up by widening the bowl/roof area. You might try blending the bottom cuts one at a time.


Brian Hafliger
Re: Procomp BB head flow test [Re: Brian Hafliger] #1508103
09/27/13 08:00 AM
09/27/13 08:00 AM
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The Pro-Comps are identical to the Eddy's in every single aspect with the exception of appearance-right down the water jackets and how much material there is. I tried a CNC machined venturi shape below the seat into the bowl as that has really worked in the past. It did not work all that well on these, I think I missed the angle of attack. There is a ton of material in the bowls-do not be afraid to make them any shape you want. The S.S. is narrow in width and to short-it is critical to get right for low lift numbers to be decent.The valve job has very little impact on these heads for some reason. I have tried every combo of angles and with a 50* seat the numbers don't really change. I will tell you that raising the port and filling the floor does work for these heads--I cannot figure out why they wouldn't cast them this way? Valve position relative to the bore is the biggest problem with Mopar's B engines as we all know. Heavy angle milling on these is your friend. I have taken as much as .300" - 0", this moves valves 2.25 *--it works extremely well. I'm about to get serious with a set and move guides to where they need to be and see what happens. This is all I can share for now. J.Rob


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Re: Procomp BB head flow test [Re: Sport440] #1508104
09/27/13 12:01 PM
09/27/13 12:01 PM
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BradH Offline OP
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Quote:

You have some heavy hitters involved on this one. Yourself,...




The only thing "heavy" about me is that I've gained 45#s since getting married 15 years ago and having 3 kids. This is just a hobby for me, while Jesse & Brian do this stuff for a living.

Regardless, what I'm showing here are the "C" results from above vs. the average of all 8 #s from my Hughes CNC Victors. One of my questions in this effort is how close I can come to those sort of results w/o having to increase the volume significantly.

Lift ---- C ------ H -
.050 --- 32.0 --- 33.3
.100 --- 66.7 --- 71.1
.200 -- 141.6 -- 153.6
.300 -- 206.6 -- 221.6
.400 -- 264.3 -- 273.1
.450 -- 287.1 -- 294.1
.500 -- 303.9 -- 310.2
.550 -- 318.7 -- 322.7
.600 -- 325.8 -- 336.3
.650 -- 331.2 -- 343.0
.700 -- 337.0 -- 346.1

Given Hughes opens up the port entry to 2.40" x 1.30" and, according to their specs, increases the runner volume by 30+ ccs over the advertised OOB Victor head, I'm not sure how much of an apples-to-apples comparison it is.

I am considering a couple of larger-than-standard entry sizes, too, but nothing as large as a Max Wedge.

Re: Procomp BB head flow test [Re: BradH] #1508105
09/27/13 12:27 PM
09/27/13 12:27 PM
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Brad I don't want to tell you what to do as you are doing fine by yourself BUT at this stage if you want to step up your porting program get yourself some method of measuring air-speed. Bruce on the flowbench website has a great tool for both the intakes and exhaust.


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Re: Procomp BB head flow test [Re: pittsburghracer] #1508106
09/27/13 12:41 PM
09/27/13 12:41 PM
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Increasing intake width is very important with these. Stock narrow port window cause very abrupt width increase at short side leading to turbulence and stalling at the .650" and up. These things need to go Max Wedge-. All of this still won't fix the poor low/midlift numbers though. J.Rob


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Re: Procomp BB head flow test [Re: RAMM] #1508107
09/27/13 02:12 PM
09/27/13 02:12 PM
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Quote:

Increasing intake width is very important with these............. All of this still won't fix the poor low/midlift numbers though. J.Rob




Did someone say width?



And yes the low/mid lift numbers aren't much to talk about but they do get to 366 cfm by .600 lift.


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Re: Procomp BB head flow test [Re: pittsburghracer] #1508108
09/27/13 04:14 PM
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Quote:

Brad I don't want to tell you what to do as you are doing fine by yourself BUT at this stage if you want to step up your porting program get yourself some method of measuring air-speed. Bruce on the flowbench website has a great tool for both the intakes and exhaust.



I actually do have a stand-alone manometer and J-tipped probe... but simply haven't used them much over the years. The intake probe that Bruce offers is much more compact than mine and may be something I pick up to help.

Re: Procomp BB head flow test [Re: d7cook] #1508109
09/27/13 04:17 PM
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Quote:

Did someone say width?



Is that MCH's Max Wedge program on a "real" Victor?

Re: Procomp BB head flow test [Re: RAMM] #1508110
09/27/13 04:29 PM
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"Valve position relative to the bore is the biggest problem with Mopar's B engines as we all know."
Are they positioned to close to the bores edge and not centered enough? What is the valve angle of the BB Mopar? Isn't it 15 degrees?

Re: Procomp BB head flow test [Re: WO23Coronet] #1508111
09/27/13 04:34 PM
09/27/13 04:34 PM
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Quote:

"Valve position relative to the bore is the biggest problem with Mopar's B engines as we all know."
Are they positioned to close to the bores edge and not centered enough? What is the valve angle of the BB Mopar? Isn't it 15 degrees?




It's the location more than being close to the bore...but yes they are too close to the bore as well.


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Re: Procomp BB head flow test [Re: BradH] #1508112
09/27/13 05:02 PM
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Quote:

Quote:

Did someone say width?



Is that MCH's Max Wedge program on a "real" Victor?




Yes. I've posted the pic a while back and still haven't used them but plan on doing a 500" motor soon.

I admire the people like you who still do there own thing with cylinder heads but I don't have the time anymore. It's hard enough for me just to build the short block and transmissions and keep up maintenance to get a car to the track. I buy heads during Summits 10 or 15% off sale in winter and ship them off for CNC porting. I port match up an intake and I'm done with the top half.

Last edited by d7cook; 09/27/13 05:30 PM.

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Re: Procomp BB head flow test [Re: Brian Hafliger] #1508113
09/27/13 05:06 PM
09/27/13 05:06 PM
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Quote:

Quote:

"Valve position relative to the bore is the biggest problem with Mopar's B engines as we all know."
Are they positioned to close to the bores edge and not centered enough? What is the valve angle of the BB Mopar? Isn't it 15 degrees?




It's the location more than being close to the bore...but yes they are too close to the bore as well.




What's wrong with the position, are there any heads that correct it?

Re: Procomp BB head flow test [Re: WO23Coronet] #1508114
09/27/13 08:46 PM
09/27/13 08:46 PM
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Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

"Valve position relative to the bore is the biggest problem with Mopar's B engines as we all know."
Are they positioned to close to the bores edge and not centered enough? What is the valve angle of the BB Mopar? Isn't it 15 degrees?




It's the location more than being close to the bore...but yes they are too close to the bore as well.




What's wrong with the position, are there any heads that correct it?




Yes, B1's!


Brian Hafliger
Re: Procomp BB head flow test [Re: RAMM] #1508115
09/29/13 01:01 PM
09/29/13 01:01 PM
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BradH Offline OP
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Quote:

... raising the port and filling the floor does work for these heads--I cannot figure out why they wouldn't cast them this way?



I'm sure once Edelbrock decides to make that sort of change that Procomp will shortly after.

Re: Procomp BB head flow test [Re: BradH] #1508116
09/30/13 12:34 PM
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Brad what's the current throat I.D.?
What does the roof width measure by the guide boss?
What width is the short turn now?

Std. port opening is just too small for serious flow....


Brian Hafliger
Re: Procomp BB head flow test [Re: Brian Hafliger] #1508117
09/30/13 03:24 PM
09/30/13 03:24 PM
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BradH Offline OP
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Measured the throat (~90% of valve), but don't have #s for all of the other areas you asked about.

Measured the port opening and IIRC it was slightly smaller than I expected... maybe 2.25" x 1.98"? Makes more sense why Hughes went "semi-Max Wedge" at 2.40" x 1.30" with their "standard 440" CNC version, but not a full 2.65" x 1.35" MW.

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