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Lead vs Filler
#229833
02/19/09 05:38 PM
02/19/09 05:38 PM
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Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 417
Caledon, Ontario
smac77
OP
mopar
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OP
mopar
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 417
Caledon, Ontario
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This may have been done before but let's here some veiws for lead or lead free solder vs filler in a factory panel seam, ie: 1/4 panel to roof where the joint is quite large? 
Restoration, Sales and Canadian Distributor For: AMD Sheetmetal Wizzard Direct Fit, Bolt In Aluminum Radiators Legendary Interiors SSBC & Wilwood Brakes Control Freak Suspensions Fine lines Tubing and many more... www.macleanclassics.com
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Re: Lead vs Filler
[Re: Neil]
#229835
02/19/09 06:20 PM
02/19/09 06:20 PM
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Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 417
Caledon, Ontario
smac77
OP
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Quote:
I'd use lead.
I redid mine in plastic just because the vinyl top is going back on. If I didn't have the top I would have replaced the plastic with lead. That is the way the factory did it in the first place.
funny you mentioned that, I have a friend with a challenger that just went into the trim shop for a new vinyl top becuase the guy that did the car used filler in the seam and it started to bubble and lift away...car was done within the last 10 years, and has seen very little miles.. so it didn't last long....
Last edited by smac77; 02/19/09 06:22 PM.
Restoration, Sales and Canadian Distributor For: AMD Sheetmetal Wizzard Direct Fit, Bolt In Aluminum Radiators Legendary Interiors SSBC & Wilwood Brakes Control Freak Suspensions Fine lines Tubing and many more... www.macleanclassics.com
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Re: Lead vs Filler
[Re: smac77]
#229836
02/19/09 08:46 PM
02/19/09 08:46 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 20,585
Eagle, Idaho
Neil
The Doctor is in.
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The Doctor is in.
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 20,585
Eagle, Idaho
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My original filler was still in decent shape when I took the vinyl top off, but sooner or later it will let go. I'd rather it not be when I put a new top back on so I chose to replace it with fresh material.
If the factory stuff lasted 38 years then this should last just as long. It will be kept inside most of the time and rarely see water so it should be ok. I'm going to have the roof painted with a good thick coat of base-clear urethane paint so that should lock out any moisture. It has to be a whole lot better than the light dusting of enamel the factory gave it.
Filler lifting is caused by the surface not being cleaned properly most likely.
Last edited by Neil; 02/19/09 08:48 PM.
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Re: Lead vs Filler
[Re: smac77]
#229838
02/19/09 09:01 PM
02/19/09 09:01 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 18,423
UPPER MICHIGAN, MARQUETTE COUN...
NITROUSN
I Live Here
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I Live Here
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Quote:
This may have been done before but let's here some veiws for lead or lead free solder vs filler in a factory panel seam, ie: 1/4 panel to roof where the joint is quite large?
Its been discussed before and the factory seemed to have lead in the painted roofs and plastic in the vinyl top models. I would prefer lead.
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Re: Lead vs Filler
[Re: NITROUSN]
#229839
02/19/09 09:28 PM
02/19/09 09:28 PM
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Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 417
Caledon, Ontario
smac77
OP
mopar
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OP
mopar
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 417
Caledon, Ontario
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Quote:
Quote:
This may have been done before but let's here some veiws for lead or lead free solder vs filler in a factory panel seam, ie: 1/4 panel to roof where the joint is quite large?
Its been discussed before and the factory seemed to have lead in the painted roofs and plastic in the vinyl top models. I would prefer lead.
I've never seen plastic behind a vinyl from the factory? Not pre 73 anyway, they've always been lead in any that I've removed...
Restoration, Sales and Canadian Distributor For: AMD Sheetmetal Wizzard Direct Fit, Bolt In Aluminum Radiators Legendary Interiors SSBC & Wilwood Brakes Control Freak Suspensions Fine lines Tubing and many more... www.macleanclassics.com
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Re: Lead vs Filler
[Re: ringo440]
#229840
02/19/09 09:51 PM
02/19/09 09:51 PM
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Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 1,572
Jacksonville Florida
elitecustombody
pro stock
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pro stock
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 1,572
Jacksonville Florida
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Quote:
SMC is the best thing i have used, SMC is used to bond corvette bodies together. SMC cures into a very hard film, but it remains flexable enough that it will not crack . 
if that works for you,lol, I'd never use something that was developed for composites on metal, they have a metal bonding adhesive that will work much better ,it was designed to work with metal
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Re: Lead vs Filler
[Re: smac77]
#229841
02/19/09 09:54 PM
02/19/09 09:54 PM
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Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 3,378
KY USA
mopargem
master
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master
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 3,378
KY USA
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My 71 B body has lead on each end with bondo in the middle, I remember other cars I had with bondo like 69 b bodies, cant remeber if just the ends were leaded.
Last edited by mopargem; 02/19/09 11:44 PM.
68 Polara 500...LL1 Y7 M6X
69 Hemi road runner...X9 X9 M6X
69 A12 road runner....R4 R4 M6X
69 ModTop FLORAL Super Bee...F
70 AAR 'cuda...EW1 EW1 H4X9
71 Duster 340...FJ6 V24 L6X9
71 road runner FC7 V1X M6X9
72 Rallye Charger B5 V1W
74 'cuda 360...KB5 V1X A6X9
08 SRT Challenger #234
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Re: Lead vs Filler
[Re: mopargem]
#229842
02/19/09 09:59 PM
02/19/09 09:59 PM
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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My 70 Superbee with vinyl top has plastic filler where my 72 Duster w/o vinyl top has lead. Both were done this way in the factory.
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Re: Lead vs Filler
[Re: Topcat]
#229844
02/19/09 10:38 PM
02/19/09 10:38 PM
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Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 27,347
Today? Who Knows?
1_WILD_RT
Management Trainee
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Management Trainee
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 27,347
Today? Who Knows?
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Quote:
I used the Eastwood lead kit on mine. Took a few times to figure out the right amount of heat to get it to smear how you intended.
I watched videos first on you Tube and then the Eastwood video. Way better than a huge chunk of Mud I think.
You picture looks like you used a grinder with 36 grit to cut the lead...A bit of advice..Lead is still toxic, thats why it isn't used much...Shape the lead close with a paddle while it is workable then cut it with a body file...Keep dust to a minimum & where a mask....
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Re: Lead vs Filler
[Re: smac77]
#229845
02/19/09 10:47 PM
02/19/09 10:47 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 18,423
UPPER MICHIGAN, MARQUETTE COUN...
NITROUSN
I Live Here
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I Live Here
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UPPER MICHIGAN, MARQUETTE COUN...
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Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
This may have been done before but let's here some veiws for lead or lead free solder vs filler in a factory panel seam, ie: 1/4 panel to roof where the joint is quite large?
Its been discussed before and the factory seemed to have lead in the painted roofs and plastic in the vinyl top models. I would prefer lead.
I've never seen plastic behind a vinyl from the factory? Not pre 73 anyway, they've always been lead in any that I've removed...
All I have seen is plastic. here is a virgin 69. Pics not the best.
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Re: Lead vs Filler
[Re: 1_WILD_RT]
#229846
02/19/09 10:49 PM
02/19/09 10:49 PM
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Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 1,247
Fremont, CA.
Topcat
pro stock
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pro stock
Joined: Jul 2005
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Fremont, CA.
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Quote:
Quote:
I used the Eastwood lead kit on mine. Took a few times to figure out the right amount of heat to get it to smear how you intended.
I watched videos first on you Tube and then the Eastwood video. Way better than a huge chunk of Mud I think.
Your picture looks like you used a grinder with 36 grit to cut the lead...A bit of advice..Lead is still toxic, thats why it isn't used much...Shape the lead close with a paddle while it is workable then cut it with a body file...Keep dust to a minimum & where a mask....
I used the Eastwood file cheese grater file in that picture. Yes I did use a mask whenever and would stop breathing as much as possible around it. Swept area slowly after with a hand brush using small strokes so as not to kick up lead dust. Also a hand operated pnuematic vacuum made by Blue Point/Snap On to pick up the shavings. Cool little tool.
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Re: Lead vs Filler
[Re: NITROUSN]
#229847
02/19/09 10:59 PM
02/19/09 10:59 PM
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Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 1,247
Fremont, CA.
Topcat
pro stock
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pro stock
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 1,247
Fremont, CA.
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Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
This may have been done before but let's here some veiws for lead or lead free solder vs filler in a factory panel seam, ie: 1/4 panel to roof where the joint is quite large?
Its been discussed before and the factory seemed to have lead in the painted roofs and plastic in the vinyl top models. I would prefer lead.
I've never seen plastic behind a vinyl from the factory? Not pre 73 anyway, they've always been lead in any that I've removed...
All I have seen is plastic. here is a virgin 69. Pics not the best.
The original material they used as filler from the factory underneath vinyl top cars wasn't a body filler I have ever seen before.
When I removed mine years ago, it flew off like saw dust. It seemed porus, almost flexible. This would make sense so any body shift and it wouldn't likely crack. These were my personal reasons why I went with lead instead. Body fillers have come a long way since back in the 80's when I first filled it with Body filler. Later on, my car (black back then) had a band aid effect later on right at the quarter panel seam. At shows, I have seen others with this problem also.
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Re: Lead vs Filler
[Re: Firepowerflyer]
#229852
02/20/09 10:59 AM
02/20/09 10:59 AM
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Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 2,304
WI
RestoRick
top fuel
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top fuel
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 2,304
WI
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The factory "Process Standard" paperwork I've seen & read, states the filler used under vinyl was a heat cured material. (Called Plasti-sol IIRC). Similar to bondo, but as mentioned, more like the hardness of the factory seam sealer. It failed miserably when moisture would get behind it through the open spot welded roof seam and cause rusting & filler puckering. I've personally seen one or two cars with lead used under an original vinyl top, but I'm of the opinion that most were done with the plastic material. The seam needs to be welded solid and pinhole free in order for plastic fillers to last. I'm a firm believer in welding the seam solid and using lead filler on painted top cars. More info on the lead vs. plastic debate here... Leadwork 101 Rick
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Re: Lead vs Filler
[Re: RestoRick]
#229853
02/20/09 07:30 PM
02/20/09 07:30 PM
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Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 15,134
Kelowna, B.C. Canada
DPelletier
I Live Here
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I Live Here
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Kelowna, B.C. Canada
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Add me to the list;
my factory '70 V1X top car had the factory plastic filler. I was also of the opinion that only painted roofs got the lead (although I'm sure there were exceptions)
Cheers,
Dave
1970 Super Bee 440 Six Pack
1974 'Cuda
2008 Ram 3500 Diesel
2006 Ram 3500 Diesel
2004.5 Ram 2500 Diesel
2003 Ram 3500 Diesel
2006 Durango Limited
[url] http://1970superbee.piczo.com [/url]
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Re: Lead vs Filler
[Re: smac77]
#229855
02/22/09 01:02 PM
02/22/09 01:02 PM
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Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 1,822
Colorado
denfireguy
top fuel
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top fuel
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 1,822
Colorado
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Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
This may have been done before but let's here some veiws for lead or lead free solder vs filler in a factory panel seam, ie: 1/4 panel to roof where the joint is quite large?
Its been discussed before and the factory seemed to have lead in the painted roofs and plastic in the vinyl top models. I would prefer lead.
I've never seen plastic behind a vinyl from the factory? Not pre 73 anyway, they've always been lead in any that I've removed...
My 73 is lead. The rest of the vinyl portion of the roof was primer with some body color overspray and that is it. There was no rust when the vinyl was removed. There was some rust in the passenger lower quarter that was replaced but in my opinion, it was attacked from the interior from other rust in that quarter allowing moisture into the trunk.
Craig
2014 Ram 1500 Laramie, 73 Cuda
Previous mopars: 62 Valiant, 65 Fury III, 68 Fury III, 72 Satellite, 74 Satellite, 89 Acclaim, 98 Caravan, 2003 Durango
Only previous Non-Mopar: Schwinn Tornado
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Re: Lead vs Filler
[Re: smac77]
#229856
02/23/09 09:36 PM
02/23/09 09:36 PM
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Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 417
Caledon, Ontario
smac77
OP
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Thanks guys for all the input... I'm currently doing a 70 cuda, 68 charger, 69 dart and a 70 challenger... all vinyls all factory lead....all had either some rot or deep pitting underneath the lead... so although it's been in there for 30 plus years it did fail... I've always re-done mine with lead but the reason I posted this was I heard a number of positive feedback comments on another forum about welding the seems shut (like resto rick said above), epoxying and using evercoats everglass then a light skim of rage on top and you're done... no moisture problems as the everglass on the bottom is waterproof, no acid trap to worry about with lead.... Anyone used it before? here's a link: http://www.evercoat.com/productDetail.aspx?pID=36
Restoration, Sales and Canadian Distributor For: AMD Sheetmetal Wizzard Direct Fit, Bolt In Aluminum Radiators Legendary Interiors SSBC & Wilwood Brakes Control Freak Suspensions Fine lines Tubing and many more... www.macleanclassics.com
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Re: Lead vs Filler
[Re: RestoRick]
#229857
02/23/09 09:44 PM
02/23/09 09:44 PM
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Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 417
Caledon, Ontario
smac77
OP
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OP
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Quote:
The factory "Process Standard" paperwork I've seen & read, states the filler used under vinyl was a heat cured material. (Called Plasti-sol IIRC).
Similar to bondo, but as mentioned, more like the hardness of the factory seam sealer.
It failed miserably when moisture would get behind it through the open spot welded roof seam and cause rusting & filler puckering.
I've personally seen one or two cars with lead used under an original vinyl top, but I'm of the opinion that most were done with the plastic material.
The seam needs to be welded solid and pinhole free in order for plastic fillers to last.
I'm a firm believer in welding the seam solid and using lead filler on painted top cars.
More info on the lead vs. plastic debate here...
Leadwork 101
Rick
good article rick, maybe the guys at chrysler should have been as careful with their prep!
Restoration, Sales and Canadian Distributor For: AMD Sheetmetal Wizzard Direct Fit, Bolt In Aluminum Radiators Legendary Interiors SSBC & Wilwood Brakes Control Freak Suspensions Fine lines Tubing and many more... www.macleanclassics.com
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Re: Lead vs Filler
[Re: smac77]
#229858
02/23/09 09:54 PM
02/23/09 09:54 PM
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Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 7,368
Iowa
burdar
Owen's Dad
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Owen's Dad
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 7,368
Iowa
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Quote:
My 73 is lead. The rest of the vinyl portion of the roof was primer with some body color overspray and that is it.
My 73 Challenger has filler in the roof NOT lead. I took the origonal vynal top off the car. It was primered underneith.
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Re: Lead vs Filler
[Re: burdar]
#229859
02/24/09 05:39 AM
02/24/09 05:39 AM
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Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 401
Berlin, Germany
Flo
mopar
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mopar
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 401
Berlin, Germany
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my67 Fury had lead under the vinyl roof.
I left the lead on as that was one of the few places where there was no rust.
If I replaced something I would use a high quality body filler. The acid you are using with the lead can cause severe trouble especially in seams.
1967 Fury III 4door HT
tiny 318, late model roller block, bored and stroked to 344
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Re: Lead vs Filler
[Re: burdar]
#229860
02/24/09 06:49 PM
02/24/09 06:49 PM
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Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 1,822
Colorado
denfireguy
top fuel
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top fuel
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Colorado
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Quote:
Quote:
My 73 is lead. The rest of the vinyl portion of the roof was primer with some body color overspray and that is it.
My 73 Challenger has filler in the roof NOT lead. I took the origonal vynal top off the car. It was primered underneith.
I took the original off too. Maybe it was where it was made at. Mine was from Hamtramck.
Craig
2014 Ram 1500 Laramie, 73 Cuda
Previous mopars: 62 Valiant, 65 Fury III, 68 Fury III, 72 Satellite, 74 Satellite, 89 Acclaim, 98 Caravan, 2003 Durango
Only previous Non-Mopar: Schwinn Tornado
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Re: Lead vs Filler
[Re: Flo]
#229861
02/24/09 10:59 PM
02/24/09 10:59 PM
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Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 1,247
Fremont, CA.
Topcat
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Quote:
The acid you are using with the lead can cause severe trouble especially in seams.
I don't agree with that entirely. The big word here is CAN. If you do a thorough cleaning of the area after the work is done, it'll be fine. Pock holes and any small crevices can hold the acid. But again, it needs to be a smooth layer as possible and cleaned real well after.
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