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stock stroke 360 low 10's? #2295548 04/28/17 11:47 AM 04/28/17 11:47 AM
Joined: Aug 2011 Posts: 251 Saskatchewan (SK) 7 79410aspenrt OP enthusiast
79410aspenrt OP enthusiast 7 Joined: Aug 2011 Posts: 251 Saskatchewan (SK)	i have a 77 RoadRunner drag car. 2700 lbs race ready. i would like to run low 10's with a stock stroke 360. ladder bar suspension, 4000 convertor, 4.86 gears, 727, 29.5/11.5 slicks i need to buy a cam, (solid flat tappet) and heads. i'm thinking about the 220 CNC BPE heads. or can i get away with the 205 CNC BPE heads? with the X heads that i had on, the compression was 11.8 at 74cc. BPE heads are at 70cc. question is this, what solid flat tappet cam? big or small BPE heads?

Re: stock stroke 360 low 10's? [Re: 79410aspenrt] #2295576 04/28/17 12:22 PM 04/28/17 12:22 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 10,010 Frostbitefalls MN (Rocky&Bullw... gregsdart I Live Here
gregsdart I Live Here Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 10,010 Frostbitefalls MN (Rocky&Bullw...	It will take an honest 515 hp at a true race weight of 2700 lbs, with driver. That's only 1.4 hp per cube, so it shouldn't be too tough. Remember though, any altitude above sea level, and the hp numbers from a dyno will have to be higher, to meet the goal. First off, the 4,000 converter is going to be tight for what you will be running to make that power. 4.86 gears could be too high, plan carefully. At 10.00, mph will be about 132. That shows ab out 7500 rpm, with some converter slip figured in. 8..603 156 mph best, 2905 lbs 549, indy 572-13, alky

Re: stock stroke 360 low 10's? [Re: 79410aspenrt] #2295582 04/28/17 12:31 PM 04/28/17 12:31 PM
Joined: Oct 2015 Posts: 570 UK rb446 mopar
rb446 mopar Joined: Oct 2015 Posts: 570 UK	I would say using your data that a 2700 car with 4.86/29.5 would run 10.0's at 133mph@7300rpm+verter slip, with just 520fwhp, at around 12:1CR with 205 BPE heads which I think would be adequate and save costs on rockers that is more than doable. The 7500 trap rpm would necessitate a suitable cam, something like a lunati> http://www.lunatipower.com/Product.aspx?id=5296&gid=247 I don't think you have enough converter for that so depending on how far into the low 10's you wanna run you could calm it down some and run in the 10.2's with a milder cam but your still going to push 7000+ at the traps and still be a bit weak on the verter with 4.86's, perhaps a drop in gearing to say 4.5's and it would calm it down some more to around 7k trap all in where your verter would work better with a milder cam....my 2 cents. 1969 'Cuda 446ci, best 9.96@133.9 in 1990 1971 340 'Cuda, best 11.01@122.8 in 1987

Re: stock stroke 360 low 10's? [Re: 79410aspenrt] #2295665 04/28/17 03:59 PM 04/28/17 03:59 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 5,894 Florida Locomotion master
Locomotion master Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 5,894 Florida	FWIW, I had a home built ladder bar 2x3 frame Challenger that weighed 2,850 w/driver. Normally aspirated stock stroke 360, OEM rods 11.5-1 compression, W-2 heads ported with the template kit (2.02/1.60 valves) Forgot what brand flat tappet cam, but it wasn't over .585" lift. (Cam Dynamics/Crower/Mopar Perf.) Harland Sharp 1.5 roller rockers. 727 w/standard gear, converter flashed at least 4,500 and a 5.13 Dana 60 w/14x32 slicks. Best ET was 10.22 @ 130+ mph. Intake was either a Holley Street Dominator or a Victor 340 (Probably a Holley) with a 750 DP. The cam and converter are the only parts I can't be more specific on. But it also had a best of 1.37 60'. Shifting around 6800 and I believe it went through at least that high. If I knew then what I know now, I probably touched the 9's. Just switching to a 904 would have gotten me more than 1/2 way closer. The sad part is that I ran 3 10.22's in a row. But the bottom came out of it before the finish line at Gainesville before the finish line on the 3rd one. I won the round, but obviously couldn't come back for the next one.

Re: stock stroke 360 low 10's? [Re: 79410aspenrt] #2295708 04/28/17 05:45 PM 04/28/17 05:45 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 9,826 las vegas 70AARcuda master
70AARcuda master Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 9,826 las vegas	Our 71 Dart has gone 10.31 128 at Bakersfield with a DA 2100 ft. With driver the car weight in at 2825 last weekend in Vegas.. 360 stock 3.58 stroke crank..11.2 to 1 compression. H beam rods 630 grams wiseco flat top pistons 540 gram plus pin actually MP pistons cost 200 bucks. Hughes 6064 cam flat tappet Eddy CNC heads with Crane 1.6 rocker Hooker 5204 headers 904 with TA converter..flashes 5200 rpm Dana 60 with 4.56 gears Hoosiers 10 x 29 tire Quick Fuel 950 not really a 950 on E85 Tony 70 AARCuda Vitamin C 71 Dart Swinger 360 10.318 @ 128.22(10-04-14 Bakersfield) 71 Demon 360 10.666 @122.41 (01-29-17 @ Las Vegas) 71 Duster 408 (10.29 @ 127.86 3/16/19 Las Vegas)

Re: stock stroke 360 low 10's? [Re: 79410aspenrt] #2295763 04/28/17 08:13 PM 04/28/17 08:13 PM
Joined: Aug 2011 Posts: 251 Saskatchewan (SK) 7 79410aspenrt OP enthusiast
79410aspenrt OP enthusiast 7 Joined: Aug 2011 Posts: 251 Saskatchewan (SK)	the track i race at is around 3200 above sea level. i would like to run 10.20's but if i see 10.40's i won't be disappointed. it would be nice if i could use the smaller BPE as it saves on buying the offset rockers. i also have a victor 340 intake, and 950 holley hp so far a cam in the 580-600 lift? Last edited by 79410aspenrt; 04/28/17 08:16 PM.

Re: stock stroke 360 low 10's? [Re: 79410aspenrt] #2295861 04/29/17 12:05 AM 04/29/17 12:05 AM
Joined: Oct 2008 Posts: 1,176 East Coast A A/MP super stock
A/MP super stock A Joined: Oct 2008 Posts: 1,176 East Coast	Not saying that a 360 could not turn 7300-7800 rpm's, but you that motor won't last that long. That will walk to some degree unless you have an R 4 bolt main block.I'd shoot for power between 6400-6800 rpms. At 2700 lbs. a W2 head and MP 590 cam, M1 intake and a 750 to 850 carb should get you there. Can't comment on the BPE head. Big ? is where it will start making power. 360's make torque. Pittsburgh Racer should chime in. He has a fast SB.

Re: stock stroke 360 low 10's? [Re: 79410aspenrt] #2295871 04/29/17 12:18 AM 04/29/17 12:18 AM
Joined: Aug 2011 Posts: 251 Saskatchewan (SK) 7 79410aspenrt OP enthusiast
79410aspenrt OP enthusiast 7 Joined: Aug 2011 Posts: 251 Saskatchewan (SK)	BPE has 2 versions. the smaller head is 205 cc and the bigger head is 220 cc. the 220 cc heads requires an offset rocker. i already have a set of standard LA rockers so if i can use the smaller 205 cc heads i will.

Re: stock stroke 360 low 10's? [Re: 79410aspenrt] #2295892 04/29/17 01:07 AM 04/29/17 01:07 AM
Joined: Oct 2015 Posts: 570 UK rb446 mopar
rb446 mopar Joined: Oct 2015 Posts: 570 UK	BPE 205's should be enough, summit rate that same Lunati cam at 3000-7200 https://www.summitracing.com/int/parts/lun-30230743/overview/ Run that with a 4.30 gear and your tyres and you get> 60 Foot E.T. : 1.40 1/8 Mile E.T. : 6.37 1/8 Mile Trap Speed : 106.67 1/4 Mile E.T. : 10.10 1/4 Mile Trap Speed : 132 1/4 Mile Trap RPM : 6,503+slip@3%?>>6700-6800 with 4.56's its 6896+slip@3%?>>7000>7100 Carb 850DP+...those numbers are a projection with a true on track 518fwhp needed + your altitude above. 1969 'Cuda 446ci, best 9.96@133.9 in 1990 1971 340 'Cuda, best 11.01@122.8 in 1987

Re: stock stroke 360 low 10's? [Re: 79410aspenrt] #2295906 04/29/17 01:35 AM 04/29/17 01:35 AM
Joined: Aug 2003 Posts: 3,245 Between a rock & a hard place C cudadoug master
cudadoug master C Joined: Aug 2003 Posts: 3,245 Between a rock & a hard place	Do the RIGHT cam, the first time. Call Tim at Bullet and let them grind you a cam. You will not be disappointed!

Re: stock stroke 360 low 10's? [Re: 79410aspenrt] #2296015 04/29/17 12:10 PM 04/29/17 12:10 PM
Joined: Aug 2011 Posts: 251 Saskatchewan (SK) 7 79410aspenrt OP enthusiast
79410aspenrt OP enthusiast 7 Joined: Aug 2011 Posts: 251 Saskatchewan (SK)	according to wallace racing 1/4 mile stats, i need 480-500 hp to run 10.10's at 131. so it's fair to say i will need 500 hp to run 10.50's? i can change my slicks to 14/32 if that would help my top end rpm. i looked on Bullets website last night, are they also Ultradyne?

Re: stock stroke 360 low 10's? [Re: Locomotion] #2296047 04/29/17 12:58 PM 04/29/17 12:58 PM
Joined: Dec 2009 Posts: 20,640 in a cattle trailer down by th... G Guitar Jones Paddle faster! I hear banjo music!
Guitar Jones Paddle faster! I hear banjo music! G Joined: Dec 2009 Posts: 20,640 in a cattle trailer down by th...	Originally Posted By Locomotion FWIW, I had a home built ladder bar 2x3 frame Challenger that weighed 2,850 w/driver. Normally aspirated stock stroke 360, OEM rods 11.5-1 compression, W-2 heads ported with the template kit (2.02/1.60 valves) Forgot what brand flat tappet cam, but it wasn't over .585" lift. (Cam Dynamics/Crower/Mopar Perf.) Harland Sharp 1.5 roller rockers. 727 w/standard gear, converter flashed at least 4,500 and a 5.13 Dana 60 w/14x32 slicks. Best ET was 10.22 @ 130+ mph. Intake was either a Holley Street Dominator or a Victor 340 (Probably a Holley) with a 750 DP. The cam and converter are the only parts I can't be more specific on. But it also had a best of 1.37 60'. Shifting around 6800 and I believe it went through at least that high. If I knew then what I know now, I probably touched the 9's. Just switching to a 904 would have gotten me more than 1/2 way closer. The sad part is that I ran 3 10.22's in a row. But the bottom came out of it before the finish line at Gainesville before the finish line on the 3rd one. I won the round, but obviously couldn't come back for the next one. Myron, I remember talking with you about the cam way back when. IIRC it was a Reed camshaft. Let me be the first to say that even though the car is light it's still a brick. Those calculators are pretty generous if you ask me. I had a W5 headed 360 in my 2750 pound, 2x3, 4 link Scamp that ran 10.40's at sea level with a 950 carb and big flat tappet, .672 lift with 1.6 rockers. 904 with a converter flashing to 5300 and 4.86 gears on 14.5x32's that was shifted at 7000 and went through the lights at about 6800. Now the short block had a lot of passes on it and the ring seal was not great but I still think those numbers are a bit unrealistic. "Follow me the wise man said, but he walked behind" '92 D250 Club Cab CTD, 47RH conversion, pump tweaks, injectors, rear disc and hydroboost conversion. '74 W200 Crew Cab 360, NV4500, D44, D60 and NP205 divorced transfer case. Rear disc and hydroboost conversion. 2019 1500 Long Horn Crew Cab 4WD, 5.7 Hemi.

Re: stock stroke 360 low 10's? [Re: 79410aspenrt] #2296057 04/29/17 01:07 PM 04/29/17 01:07 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 14,505 So. Burlington, Vt. F fast68plymouth I Live Here
fast68plymouth I Live Here F Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 14,505 So. Burlington, Vt.	I would plan my build around the idea that it needed to make an honest 575+ corrected hp to run low 10's with that combo at 3200ft elevation. DA is probably often solidly over 5500ft. IMO, for what those 4" stroke cast cranks cost........ I'd just stroke it. 68 Satellite, 383 with stock 906’s, 3550lbs, 11.18@123 Dealer for Comp Cams/Indy Heads

Re: stock stroke 360 low 10's? [Re: 79410aspenrt] #2296061 04/29/17 01:16 PM 04/29/17 01:16 PM
Joined: Aug 2003 Posts: 3,245 Between a rock & a hard place C cudadoug master
cudadoug master C Joined: Aug 2003 Posts: 3,245 Between a rock & a hard place	Hey wait! Where's quikmopardan (sp?) He's been bottom 10's with a stock stroke 360 at more weight than the OP

Re: stock stroke 360 low 10's? [Re: 79410aspenrt] #2296109 04/29/17 02:32 PM 04/29/17 02:32 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 14,505 So. Burlington, Vt. F fast68plymouth I Live Here
fast68plymouth I Live Here F Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 14,505 So. Burlington, Vt.	There are those people that have their combos really sorted out well. But that seems like it's not usually the case for "most" bracket cars. If you're not saddled with a bunch of rules limiting the engine, it's generally less expensive to build a little extra hp into the motor from the start, than to try and make updates to the car after the thing is all together and running, if it falls short of the goal. The OP says the track is at 3200ft elevation.... This is about 3 three tenths in ET. So if you're targeting 10.10-10.20("low" 10's) for that elevation, you should be planning on a 9.80-9.90 sea level combo. 68 Satellite, 383 with stock 906’s, 3550lbs, 11.18@123 Dealer for Comp Cams/Indy Heads

Re: stock stroke 360 low 10's? [Re: 79410aspenrt] #2296144 04/29/17 04:21 PM 04/29/17 04:21 PM
Joined: Aug 2011 Posts: 251 Saskatchewan (SK) 7 79410aspenrt OP enthusiast
79410aspenrt OP enthusiast 7 Joined: Aug 2011 Posts: 251 Saskatchewan (SK)	Saskatchewan International Raceway (the track i race at) is 1654 feet above sea level. it's usually around 3000-3500 feet in summer with the humidity. just to compare, my buddy has a Daytona that's at 2600 lbs. he has a 540 dyno hp 360'' with w2 heads that runs 9.40's. is it possible to make 500 hp with the smaller BPE head and 580-600 lift solid?

Re: stock stroke 360 low 10's? [Re: 79410aspenrt] #2296149 04/29/17 04:31 PM 04/29/17 04:31 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 14,505 So. Burlington, Vt. F fast68plymouth I Live Here
fast68plymouth I Live Here F Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 14,505 So. Burlington, Vt.	Quote: the track i race at is around 3200 above sea level. Quote: Saskatchewan International Raceway (the track i race at) is 1654 feet above sea level. it's usually around 3000-3500 feet in summer with the humidity. Elevation/altitude......... Not the same as "density altitude". The 1600' track elevation is worth about a tenth and a half. 68 Satellite, 383 with stock 906’s, 3550lbs, 11.18@123 Dealer for Comp Cams/Indy Heads

Re: stock stroke 360 low 10's? [Re: 79410aspenrt] #2296164 04/29/17 05:30 PM 04/29/17 05:30 PM
Joined: Oct 2015 Posts: 570 UK rb446 mopar
rb446 mopar Joined: Oct 2015 Posts: 570 UK	Originally Posted By 79410aspenrt Saskatchewan International Raceway (the track i race at) is 1654 feet above sea level. it's usually around 3000-3500 feet in summer with the humidity. just to compare, my buddy has a Daytona that's at 2600 lbs. he has a 540 dyno hp 360'' with w2 heads that runs 9.40's. is it possible to make 500 hp with the smaller BPE head and 580-600 lift solid? I have used this Wallace Calc for years for my cars when I was racing at S-Pod, it came out well to actual on track performance....but it is based on 0 altitude which SP is....DA is not normally an issue either. http://www.wallaceracing.com/accel-calc.php the numbers I get for your friends car are> 2600lbs/540fwhp 60 Foot E.T. : 1.37 1/8 Mile E.T. : 6.21 1/8 Mile Trap Speed : 109.52 1/4 Mile E.T. : 9.84 1/4 Mile Trap Speed : 136 I guess a low Daytona will cut through the air better than most, don't know about 4/10ths though?. I would agree that building yours to run in the high 9's (540hp) won't hurt. 14x32's with 4.86 and 540hp brings you back to 6870rpm trap+ slip. 1969 'Cuda 446ci, best 9.96@133.9 in 1990 1971 340 'Cuda, best 11.01@122.8 in 1987

Re: stock stroke 360 low 10's? [Re: 79410aspenrt] #2296176 04/29/17 06:30 PM 04/29/17 06:30 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 14,505 So. Burlington, Vt. F fast68plymouth I Live Here
fast68plymouth I Live Here F Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 14,505 So. Burlington, Vt.	On the moroso slide rule, 2600lbs/540hp = 9.65 @ 139. Add .15 for the track elevation and you'd be at around 9.80. 9.40's/2600lbs = 580hp, as it sits in the car, including the reduction for weather and elevation. That "should" be a 600+ hp motor. 68 Satellite, 383 with stock 906’s, 3550lbs, 11.18@123 Dealer for Comp Cams/Indy Heads

Re: stock stroke 360 low 10's? [Re: 79410aspenrt] #2296193 04/29/17 07:38 PM 04/29/17 07:38 PM
Joined: Oct 2015 Posts: 570 UK rb446 mopar
rb446 mopar Joined: Oct 2015 Posts: 570 UK	Not having a Moroso slide and never used one it would be interesting to just ask, and a bit off topic apologies, but what hp numbers would you get for> 3000lbs and 10.7@125 and 9.96@133.9 if you don't mind. thanks fast Last edited by rb446; 04/29/17 07:39 PM. 1969 'Cuda 446ci, best 9.96@133.9 in 1990 1971 340 'Cuda, best 11.01@122.8 in 1987

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