Re: CLEAR THE AIR ON SB HEAD CHOICE
[Re: pittsburghracer]
#2273249
03/20/17 09:01 PM
03/20/17 09:01 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 14,496 So. Burlington, Vt.
fast68plymouth
I Live Here
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I Live Here
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So. Burlington, Vt.
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2125.00 bare plus tax and shipping
So, another $1000 over a set of rpm heads(which are more than enough head for what the OP is saying he wants). Not that you could use that $1000 for other stuff........ like rockers, or a carb and intake manifold, or new headers........ Nah..... What was I thinking? I love all this talk about "potential", like it's a given the car will progress to a point where the more expensive heads would really start to show their stuff(and a point where the rpm heads would be "obsolete"........ Yet people have been running 10's with them since they came out). Again, following this reasoning, why is anyone wasting their money of the new 240cc TF BB heads for their street strip builds when so many other heads have more "potential". I mean c'mon....... We're talking 12's here. Reworked stock heads will easily get the job done. EQ heads, RHS heads, RPM heads, Promaxx heads...... Any of these "performance replacement" heads are more than capable of doing the job as well. Pick your poison. In this application I would choose the RPM heads. I'm sure the BPE heads would get the job done also......I'm just not convinced that at the stock stroke 400-450hp level that they would actually be $1000 better enough to make much difference on the time slip.
68 Satellite, 383 with stock 906’s, 3550lbs, 11.18@123 Dealer for Comp Cams/Indy Heads
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Re: CLEAR THE AIR ON SB HEAD CHOICE
[Re: A/MP]
#2274088
03/22/17 03:38 AM
03/22/17 03:38 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,448 Phoenix, AZ
MoparBilly
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,448
Phoenix, AZ
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I gave up on this thread after the first two sentences. "LET'S CLEAR THE AIR ON SB HEAD CHOICES!" I want to run 12's with a .030 360.
Great. Buy pro-comps off ebay, go have fun.
But you really wasted a perfectly good thread title.
"Livin' in a powder keg and givin' off sparks"
4 Street cars, 5 Race engines
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Re: CLEAR THE AIR ON SB HEAD CHOICE
[Re: A/MP]
#2274124
03/22/17 09:42 AM
03/22/17 09:42 AM
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Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 5,183
Porter67
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master
Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 5,183
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Great. Buy pro-comps off ebay, go have fun.
But you really wasted a perfectly good thread title.
Pathetic Reply.
Last edited by EV2Bird; 03/22/17 09:51 AM.
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Re: CLEAR THE AIR ON SB HEAD CHOICE
[Re: pittsburghracer]
#2274150
03/22/17 11:11 AM
03/22/17 11:11 AM
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Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 792 Earth
Rob C
super stock
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super stock
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 792
Earth
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Like what FABO has in there racer section as a sticky. I think it would be a good thing to do since it would help anybody looking at it for a little help or wondering what it takes to run the time. 1/8 or 1/4. It could help those interested with a parts list. Then they can decide from there.
Thread titles are simple and a complete listing of the cars parts along with time slip info would be huge!
It would help get other MoPar's out there quicker with fewer mistakes and time.
(12's can be done with stock iron heads... bowl ported.....)
Last edited by Rob C; 03/22/17 11:13 AM.
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Re: CLEAR THE AIR ON SB HEAD CHOICE
[Re: Porter67]
#2274158
03/22/17 11:38 AM
03/22/17 11:38 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,448 Phoenix, AZ
MoparBilly
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,448
Phoenix, AZ
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Nice opinion, from the King of Pathetic Replies. Once again, you win that category hands down. I pretty much said the same thing Mr. Porter did, just with less words and more sarcasm. I mean c'mon....... We're talking 12's here. Reworked stock heads will easily get the job done. EQ heads, RHS heads, RPM heads, Promaxx heads...... Any of these "performance replacement" heads are more than capable of doing the job as well. Pick your poison. In this application I would choose the RPM heads.
Now. If, in 2017, you are building a stock stroke 78 360 to run 12's in a gutted M-body, I'm thinking you are trying to do this as cheap as possible. But, I just went to EBAY and AMAZON and apparently all these Pro Comp dealers have lost their minds, and think they can price them within a hundred dollars of EDELBROCKS.
"Livin' in a powder keg and givin' off sparks"
4 Street cars, 5 Race engines
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Re: CLEAR THE AIR ON SB HEAD CHOICE
[Re: pittsburghracer]
#2274194
03/22/17 12:44 PM
03/22/17 12:44 PM
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Joined: Oct 2015
Posts: 570 UK
rb446
mopar
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mopar
Joined: Oct 2015
Posts: 570
UK
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I always wondered why this site never had a post in the archives with big and small block 8, 9,10,11,12,13,and 14 second builds like the old Dirrect Connection books used to. We could still add to them over the years but it would be fun to have both budget build and higher costs builds Yes similar to "for A bodies only" site https://www.forabodiesonly.com/mopar/forums/mopar-racers-forum.74/Example> My '71 340 Cuda 3500lb+, stock 340, (probably only 9.5:1 w/.039 fel-pro's), stock 2.02 heads no porting, ok a big .590 purple solid, HSD int., 850DP, 1.75" race hdrs, 4200, 4.30's went 12.39@108 na = 365 on track hp....this drove fine on the street apart from highway driving......max rpm 6200 on track.
Last edited by rb446; 03/22/17 12:48 PM.
1969 'Cuda 446ci, best 9.96@133.9 in 1990 1971 340 'Cuda, best 11.01@122.8 in 1987
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Re: CLEAR THE AIR ON SB HEAD CHOICE
[Re: A/MP]
#2274234
03/22/17 02:18 PM
03/22/17 02:18 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 14,496 So. Burlington, Vt.
fast68plymouth
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 14,496
So. Burlington, Vt.
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The X heads from Hughes are certainly capable of doing the job here.
However..........
They are heavier than stock heads, have pretty short springs, and if you're buying "prepped" assembled heads from Hughes, are likely about the same price as RPM heads, which are way lighter, and have a taller spring height(so there are more spring options available, should you need something stiffer than the supplied springs down the road).
It's just personal preference. The X heads are plenty good to get you to your goals.
68 Satellite, 383 with stock 906’s, 3550lbs, 11.18@123 Dealer for Comp Cams/Indy Heads
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Re: CLEAR THE AIR ON SB HEAD CHOICE
[Re: fast68plymouth]
#2274396
03/22/17 06:57 PM
03/22/17 06:57 PM
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Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 20,174 PA.
pittsburghracer
"Little"John
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"Little"John
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 20,174
PA.
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What ever happened to Doctor J ( Pro-comp )? Last I heard was something on Yellowbullit about him and a divorce but that was a long time ago.
1970 Duster Edelbrock headed 408 5.984@112.52 422 Indy headed small block 5.982@112.56 mph 9.42@138.27
Livin and lovin life one day at a time
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Re: CLEAR THE AIR ON SB HEAD CHOICE
[Re: A/MP]
#2274401
03/22/17 07:09 PM
03/22/17 07:09 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 8,022 Tulsa OK
Bad340fish
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 8,022
Tulsa OK
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I think MoparBilly is the only guy on this board that got a set?
68 Barracuda Formula S 340
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Re: CLEAR THE AIR ON SB HEAD CHOICE
[Re: A/MP]
#2274634
03/23/17 02:35 AM
03/23/17 02:35 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,448 Phoenix, AZ
MoparBilly
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Phoenix, AZ
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Just checked my paperwork. Hard to believe I got my Dr. J's Performance AirWolf 220's on 8/22/13. These were Bryce Mulvey's CNC program ran on Pro Comp castings. Bryce was a great promoter for his product, but a POS as a business man, and many people got screwed on this deal. As such, I can not in good conscience brag about the product. I was told my heads were from "The second pallet" of castings he received. I have no idea how many heads come on a pallet, and it wasn't long after I got mine that he closed up shop. I would think that means 25 to 35 sets made it out the door at least?
To those who question the quality of the castings: I've completed three Drag Weeks, which means over three thousand street miles, and the engine runs at 210 degrees most of the time, and has survived jaunts of fifty miles or more at 230+. If the castings were suspect, I would have had a problem by now.
Back when these hit the market all the guys porting Edelbrock RPMs claimed they could get similar numbers "If they max ported them". Oddly no one advertises numbers from RPMs in that range, and once the AirWolfs went away none of those guys felt the need to try and max out their port work to compete.
Then along comes the BPE heads. 205CC with a standard rocker, and to get to 220CC we are forced to an offset rocker.
Now, my engine builder, Brian at IMM, an unapologetic proponent of ported Edelbrocks, told me with a smile, "Those Airwolfs don't flow quite as well as Bryce claimed", but he didn't give me numbers. Then when I was asking Rod Bloomer face to face on DW this year why he didn't make the intake port bigger on the standard rocker head, he smiled and said "Billy, I've flowed one of those AirWolfs on my own bench, and they aren't as good as Bryce claimed", once again, no numbers.
Bottom line, I got 615 HP @ 6600 rpm on 428 inches with a 600 lift flat tappet cam. Most guys with Edelbrock RPMs at that level are running a roller cam, which adds considerable expense to the build.
I considered Indy 360-1s for my build, but wanted to avoid the offset rocker, also I kept getting reports from racers who were using the 245 CNC versions that were leaking water.
I re-used the same set of Crane gold rockers that were on my car when I bought it and have had zero issues, my friend with W-2s and a roller had to send his intake rockers back to T&D for a rebuild after only two Drag Weeks, that is one example of why I'm trying to avoid offset rockers and a roller cam.
Back to general "Clearing the Air". The Edelbrock RPMs are very versatile, popular, and durable castings with a great reputation. They usually bring 75-80% of retail on the used market, and the few that hit the market are gone quick, so that should be a consideration.
"Livin' in a powder keg and givin' off sparks"
4 Street cars, 5 Race engines
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Re: CLEAR THE AIR ON SB HEAD CHOICE
[Re: Crizila]
#2274975
03/23/17 08:00 PM
03/23/17 08:00 PM
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Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 7,506 Az
Crizila
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master
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Posts: 7,506
Az
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Mid 12's, buy a set of reconditioned Indy heads for $500. They come with new Stainless 2.02 / 1.60 valves, bronze guides, springs, seals, locks, retainers. Take them apart, pocket port and gasket match them, and that should put you in the mid 12 range on the cheap. Still the best suggestion for the $ and what the OP wants to accomplish. Nothing in his original post about buying heads to be able to run 11's / 10's in the future. Easy to suggest that though, when it aint your $!
Fastest 300
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Re: CLEAR THE AIR ON SB HEAD CHOICE
[Re: Silver68RT]
#2275259
03/24/17 10:17 AM
03/24/17 10:17 AM
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Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 3,978 Hilltown Pa
1967dartgt
master
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master
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 3,978
Hilltown Pa
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Are the BPE heads available in a 48 degree version? I bought a 48 degree R block in January, and I need some heads for it. I was thinking about the Indy 360-1, or -2, but I've heard bad things about customer service there. It's also a custom order to get them modified for the 48 degree block, and I think it's an extra $1100.
Are there any other options for 48 degree heads besides finding a set of old W2's? I'd like to build a street/strip stroker that I could put in my '69 Dart GT and take on Drag Week. Thinking about something in the 408 - 426" range, NA. I would get a set of W8 or W9 heads and not look back. Best wedge heads for a small block Chrysler out there.
Brett Miller W9 cnc'd heads STR Chassis fabraction
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Re: CLEAR THE AIR ON SB HEAD CHOICE
[Re: Crizila]
#2275359
03/24/17 01:01 PM
03/24/17 01:01 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 14,496 So. Burlington, Vt.
fast68plymouth
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 14,496
So. Burlington, Vt.
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Mid 12's, buy a set of reconditioned Indy heads for $500. They come with new Stainless 2.02 / 1.60 valves, bronze guides, springs, seals, locks, retainers. Take them apart, pocket port and gasket match them, and that should put you in the mid 12 range on the cheap. Still the best suggestion for the $ and what the OP wants to accomplish. Maybe, maybe not. IMO, it would depend on if you can do the post-purchase work yourself(or have a friend who can do it really cheap), or if you're going to have to pay another shop to disassemble the heads, do the porting, clean and check everything, and put them back together. From what ive seen, the valve jobs from Aerohead can be pretty "iffy". If someone brings me a set of heads to work on, and they want them back assembled and "ready to run", and the valve job sucks....... For me to be the last shop to work on them, if I'm putting them together to run, they're going to get "fixed". I can see where someone could easily spend another $400-500 on some rebuilt Aerohead heads if they bring them to another shop for some porting and a look over. If you can do the additional work yourself, and aren't too fussy about the valve job, then I agree that starting with some rebuilt Aeroheads is probably the least expensive way to get there.
68 Satellite, 383 with stock 906’s, 3550lbs, 11.18@123 Dealer for Comp Cams/Indy Heads
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