CLEAR THE AIR ON SB HEAD CHOICE

There has been a few posts on Sb heads. I just went through them. Personal choices, rumors and all out race suggestions. I need a set of SB heads to move my 3300 lbs M body to consistent muffled 12.00's to run a 12.50 index this year. Short block - 360, .030, 520/540 w/ 290 duration, 10.5 compression with a 68cc combustion chamber and a 4.10 rear. Waiting on the final combo before I select a converter. All I need is to select a pair of heads. I have a set of 308's that need a total rebuild, but when you calculate the cost of a rebuild a new set, new iron /aluminum, is about the same. Any thoughts? THX

ProMaxx

I agree.. the cost of rebuilding vs new your
better off with new.. I'm running W-2s which are
iron and weight more(about 40# per set) but they
can be made to flow well.. I have mine at about
312 cfm(might be 315 now)but they are about max now..
I have a set of W-5s but an having a issue with them
at the present time.. but I will get them right.. they
flow 319 at 600 lift.. both take off set rockers.. but
the alum W-5s are 40#lighter

Is there a ProMaxx Magnum equivalent?

Not that I know of but it would be worth a call. Man did they jump up in price.



http://www.jegs.com/p/ProMaxx-Performanc...451148/10002/-1

Call Rod bloomer he has a very nice ported heads for someone looking to up grade over stock and use all stock rocker gear no high dollar rocker gear needed

Mid 12's, buy a set of reconditioned Indy heads for $500. They come with new Stainless 2.02 / 1.60 valves, bronze guides, springs, seals, locks, retainers. Take them apart, pocket port and gasket match them, and that should put you in the mid 12 range on the cheap.

On the Pro Max, what do you guys do for a heat crossover on a street/strip machine? I also looked at those Aero heads. Some rumblings about fit, finish and parts used by Indy.

Rod Bloomer's heads are the best value for the money. Great flowing, lost cost and much better quality then the others. Two versions are available, factory non offset rocker and off set rockers.

Agreed. Those are super nice pieces. And Rod supports the hobby

Rods heads indeed look like nice pieces, and I applaud him for all the time and effort it took for him to be able to bring these to market.

However....... That doesn't mean they are going to be the best choice for every build.
I think they are overkill for a stock stroke 360 in a 12 second car.

If I were making the decisions, it would get Edelbrock rpm heads.

Does any one have a web site for Rod Bloomer heads
thanks

https://board.moparts.org/ubbthreads/ubbt...tml#Post2110101

Low 12s in a 3300 lb car? That sounds easy with a set of nearly stock magnum heads. As cast they flow 200, a little work if you have time and you're at 220-230. Or, a set of EQs that are 220-ish as cast. Or aluminum eddy heads at 240-250.

Cheap n easy.

On these... where do you buy reconditioned
Indy heads.. I wouldnt mind finding a set
of 360-1s at a reasonable price

Thinking may next two small block head purchases will be a set of W7 heads for a 48 degree block I bought since I got Jessel rockers and intake with it and a set of edelbrock Victor heads for my R3 block in my black duster to see if I can get it in the 8's

In your case stay simple and cheap to run the bracket you are aiming for

Edelbrock gets my vote as well. I went 11.50s with out of the box edelbrocks on a solid roller 11:1 360@3500lbs. I bought the heads, took them to the machine shop and had the valve job and guide tightness checked. Then I slapped on some springs to go with my cam and went racing. I later had Shady Dell to his stage II port job and install 2.05 intake valves. It went a best of 11.16@119.5. I just sold them to a member here, I almost didn't want to let them go they served me so well haha, the money is going to finish my Dana 60 and convert my tunnel ram to EFI though haha.

Shortly you will see a "Build me a motor" thread around them too.

Since most of these aluminum heads have no heat cross over, is there a tip to getting the intake warm enough on cold winter days?

How cold do you plan racing in.. a piece of
cardboard in the radiator till it warms up

You don't need heat risers in most cases if you use a electric or mechanical/cable choke. Or fuel injection. My edlebrock headed 340 and 440 has not had them for over 10 years now and do not miss them especially during the real hot summer days. Here's my 340 car idling warming up before I drive it this past Januray when it was 7°F this morning. The car is stored outside and sat for 2-3 weeks since I last started it. Just have to have the choke hooked and working on the carb.

On the salty streets!

Lower right hand corner of their advertising page. These are standard LA type heads mike - believe mine are 915 castings. I took mine apart and just did some pocket porting work and port matching to them. I run them on my street rod 360 motor. This guy is only looking to run mid 12's. He doesn't need 360's, W-2's, or anything like that to run mid 12's with his combo.

Yeah I know he doesnt need the W-2s but just put
it out there... I would like to find a set of
360-1 and the intake so I could pull the W-2s off

They do have flat roads in Cincinnati

The reason I mentioned the the heat cross over is the only carb street car I have is a smog /6. During the summer it will bog for the first minute or two.

I am doing a w7 build at the moment they are a nice head flow 377@ 700 and all i can say about them is its a head that will out live you and handle heaps of boost very thick deck and casting s .

You do realize he has a stock rocker head, as I all ready stated, that is a direct comparison to the edelbrock. You will just get a better casting and more flow out of the box, so it's a win win.

I purchased a set of indy la x heads from brian at imm engines. after his valve job they flow 270 cfm at .600. my car has a 360 with 10.5 to 1 compression runs on 92 pump gas. mopar .528 solid lift cam, 727 with 4600 stall converter and 4.30 gear. 750 double pumper on a rpm air gap intake. runs 12.06 et's can't remember the mph but think it was about 112. thinking I can get to the 11's with a little more tuning.

With that reasoning, every head manufacturer that makes 23* SBC heads should only offer the largest runner volume version they make, since that will be a "win win" for every application.

In the OP's application, I don't think the added 30cc of runner volume will be worth much in terms of better time slips.

Are the BPE heads similar in price to the RPM heads?
($1367/pr, complete, to your door)

Your being oddly( for you) kinda hard headed. Those heads by Rod are fully CNC ported by a high end respected shop, the ports were designed by a stud at such things, and the quality and potential are outstanding.
Those Eddie heads are far from ready to run out of the box. 90% of guys sooner or later upgrade. It's the nature of this hobby. Why not buy a better head with WAY more potential right out of the gate... that uses the same rocker gear and everything else.
Heck if your gonna think the way you are, just port the factory heads and still get where the guy wants to get.

Id say maybe the point is, putting rods heads on a build like this would be like putting 360-1s on a mild cammed 318, its just not a good match.

Id think Rods heads would give some of the 360-1s a run for the money, so would you recommend 360-1s on this build here to run 12-s? At probably over 3k delivered?

If the improvement deal is that big of a factor, just jump to the new victors, where do you stop? For that matter dump the la and goto the new hemi, again where does it stop?

And really low 10-s, high 9-s is not a hard task with the eddies, folks have been doing it for years, clearly not ootb though.

Get the op what he needs here, not the buy my mopar friends heads. Rods heads will sell on there own to the right market if the testing and semi long term use pan out.

Is anyone running Rods heads yet? What do they cost a pair? My guess with Brett doing the port design is that they will run hard. The bigger question is does the OP need/can use them or can afford them?

2125.00 bare plus tax and shipping

I wouldn't think the BPE (probably comparable to the Airwolfs on my 414) would be too large a port on a 10.5 360 with decent stall/gears and something like an RPM intake...not to the point where it would adversely kill torque on the street. It's not like its an 8.75:1 motor with 2200 stall and 2.94 rearend gears.

When the port is borderline too big move the cam up a few degrees to tighten up the Intake closing event/static compression. A lot of Chevy 350 guys would kill to have a 2.08 intake valve and a ~230-ish port that flows over 300 cfm. Might be overkill potential wise, but again, I'd rather have room to grow for not much more $$$.

I'd rather have a better head with room to grow (stroker down the road) than compromise, a slightly smaller duration cam is cheaper and will still make better power than the same cam with a more modest port. 360's generally don't lack for torque. if it was a 340 same/same everything else, I might back off the port cross section.

Once again the crowd goes crazy. He doesn't need 2500.00 heads and Edelbrock heads are junk as shipped now so they need checked and a quick clean up that most guys can handle. I've bought a lot of the over the years and quality has gone downhill big time. 40 years ago we ran 11's with stock junk parts and polished and buffed stock 2.02 heads and guy's are still doing today and even faster with nice Pistons and better cams. Bigger isn't always better. Goodluck and have fun.

Well I think this thread has thoroughly cleared the air. It's as clear as asphalt now.

I always wondered why this site never had a post in the archives with big and small block 8, 9,10,11,12,13,and 14 second builds like the old Dirrect Connection books used to. We could still add to them over the years but it would be fun to have both budget build and higher costs builds

It's not like you couldnt run 12's with that better head as well. While still using all your same rocker gear , intake, etc. then have room to grow down the line , as most do.
Guess I just think more deeply about this. Say you get the eddies, fix them up and install them..... down the road you havee to tear the top of the motor off it you want them ported..... time, labor, gaskets, etc. get the ones Rod sells they never have to come off once installed. Just do it right, do it once. Every day they are on there they are a better head

How about the guys on a budget, just happy getting to the track a few time a month, or year. My budget has gone up a little over the years but i sure had a lot of FUN running 11's and 12's instead of having the car sit unused because I had a pretty set of heads on the shelf. What heads are on your car now??? Heck I finally bought my first set of aluminum heads in 2000 while going through a divorce. So I had about 25 years of running stock cast iron junk. LOL. I wish Tim Bowman would step in and tell us about the cast iron magnum heads. I ran my fingers through a set of those at his house and fell in love with the short turn. Those dog-gone heads will work.

So, another $1000 over a set of rpm heads(which are more than enough head for what the OP is saying he wants).

Not that you could use that $1000 for other stuff........ like rockers, or a carb and intake manifold, or new headers........ Nah..... What was I thinking?

I love all this talk about "potential", like it's a given the car will progress to a point where the more expensive heads would really start to show their stuff(and a point where the rpm heads would be "obsolete"........ Yet people have been running 10's with them since they came out).
Again, following this reasoning, why is anyone wasting their money of the new 240cc TF BB heads for their street strip builds when so many other heads have more "potential".

I mean c'mon....... We're talking 12's here.
Reworked stock heads will easily get the job done.
EQ heads, RHS heads, RPM heads, Promaxx heads...... Any of these "performance replacement" heads are more than capable of doing the job as well.
Pick your poison. In this application I would choose the RPM heads.

I'm sure the BPE heads would get the job done also......I'm just not convinced that at the stock stroke 400-450hp level that they would actually be $1000 better enough to make much difference on the time slip.

I gave up on this thread after the first two sentences.
"LET'S CLEAR THE AIR ON SB HEAD CHOICES!"
I want to run 12's with a .030 360.

Great. Buy pro-comps off ebay, go have fun.

But you really wasted a perfectly good thread title.

Allow me to hand everyone a big box of kleenex!
Get a G3.
Stock with a cam and factory headers.
There, did that clear the air!?
Lol

Great. Buy pro-comps off ebay, go have fun.

But you really wasted a perfectly good thread title.



Pathetic Reply.

Like what FABO has in there racer section as a sticky.
I think it would be a good thing to do since it would help anybody looking at it for a little help or wondering what it takes to run the time. 1/8 or 1/4. It could help those interested with a parts list. Then they can decide from there.

Thread titles are simple and a complete listing of the cars parts along with time slip info would be huge!

It would help get other MoPar's out there quicker with fewer mistakes and time.

(12's can be done with stock iron heads... bowl ported.....)

Nice opinion, from the King of Pathetic Replies. Once again, you win that category hands down.


I pretty much said the same thing Mr. Porter did, just with less words and more sarcasm.





Now. If, in 2017, you are building a stock stroke 78 360 to run 12's in a gutted M-body, I'm thinking you are trying to do this as cheap as possible. But, I just went to EBAY and AMAZON and apparently all these Pro Comp dealers have lost their minds, and think they can price them within a hundred dollars of EDELBROCKS.

Yes similar to "for A bodies only" site

https://www.forabodiesonly.com/mopar/forums/mopar-racers-forum.74/


Example>

My '71 340 Cuda 3500lb+, stock 340, (probably only 9.5:1 w/.039 fel-pro's), stock 2.02 heads no porting, ok a big .590 purple solid, HSD int., 850DP, 1.75" race hdrs, 4200, 4.30's went 12.39@108 na = 365 on track hp....this drove fine on the street apart from highway driving......max rpm 6200 on track.

There has been many good suggestions. I was really after people's experiences with all the head options for a street strip car. I thought by putting some parameters on what I have and what I wanted to do would have made it perfectly clear.So, for all that made good suggestions, I came up with a solution. Hughes Engines has a LA X head. 1.92/2.02 intake with some bowl blending. Bolt patterns for all accessories, cast iron in case I blow a hose and get hot and better flow than stock. Again, to all that had good suggestions, THANKS.

Billy I was referring to the pro comp suggestion, considering the closeness in price, nothing more.

Procomps are a good disposable head if they were cheap in price.

The X heads from Hughes are certainly capable of doing the job here.

However..........

They are heavier than stock heads, have pretty short springs, and if you're buying "prepped" assembled heads from Hughes, are likely about the same price as RPM heads, which are way lighter, and have a taller spring height(so there are more spring options available, should you need something stiffer than the supplied springs down the road).

It's just personal preference.
The X heads are plenty good to get you to your goals.

What ever happened to Doctor J ( Pro-comp )? Last I heard was something on Yellowbullit about him and a divorce but that was a long time ago.

I think MoparBilly is the only guy on this board that got a set?

Just checked my paperwork. Hard to believe I got my Dr. J's Performance AirWolf 220's on 8/22/13. These were Bryce Mulvey's CNC program ran on Pro Comp castings. Bryce was a great promoter for his product, but a POS as a business man, and many people got screwed on this deal. As such, I can not in good conscience brag about the product.
I was told my heads were from "The second pallet" of castings he received. I have no idea how many heads come on a pallet, and it wasn't long after I got mine that he closed up shop. I would think that means 25 to 35 sets made it out the door at least?

To those who question the quality of the castings: I've completed three Drag Weeks, which means over three thousand street miles, and the engine runs at 210 degrees most of the time, and has survived jaunts of fifty miles or more at 230+. If the castings were suspect, I would have had a problem by now.


Back when these hit the market all the guys porting Edelbrock RPMs claimed they could get similar numbers "If they max ported them". Oddly no one advertises numbers from RPMs in that range, and once the AirWolfs went away none of those guys felt the need to try and max out their port work to compete.

Then along comes the BPE heads. 205CC with a standard rocker, and to get to 220CC we are forced to an offset rocker.

Now, my engine builder, Brian at IMM, an unapologetic proponent of ported Edelbrocks, told me with a smile, "Those Airwolfs don't flow quite as well as Bryce claimed", but he didn't give me numbers. Then when I was asking Rod Bloomer face to face on DW this year why he didn't make the intake port bigger on the standard rocker head, he smiled and said "Billy, I've flowed one of those AirWolfs on my own bench, and they aren't as good as Bryce claimed", once again, no numbers.

Bottom line, I got 615 HP @ 6600 rpm on 428 inches with a 600 lift flat tappet cam. Most guys with Edelbrock RPMs at that level are running a roller cam, which adds considerable expense to the build.

I considered Indy 360-1s for my build, but wanted to avoid the offset rocker, also I kept getting reports from racers who were using the 245 CNC versions that were leaking water.

I re-used the same set of Crane gold rockers that were on my car when I bought it and have had zero issues, my friend with W-2s and a roller had to send his intake rockers back to T&D for a rebuild after only two Drag Weeks, that is one example of why I'm trying to avoid offset rockers and a roller cam.


Back to general "Clearing the Air".
The Edelbrock RPMs are very versatile, popular, and durable castings with a great reputation. They usually bring 75-80% of retail on the used market, and the few that hit the market are gone quick, so that should be a consideration.

Are the BPE heads available in a 48 degree version? I bought a 48 degree R block in January, and I need some heads for it. I was thinking about the Indy 360-1, or -2, but I've heard bad things about customer service there. It's also a custom order to get them modified for the 48 degree block, and I think it's an extra $1100.

Are there any other options for 48 degree heads besides finding a set of old W2's? I'd like to build a street/strip stroker that I could put in my '69 Dart GT and take on Drag Week. Thinking about something in the 408 - 426" range, NA.

Still the best suggestion for the $ and what the OP wants to accomplish. Nothing in his original post about buying heads to be able to run 11's / 10's in the future. Easy to suggest that though, when it aint your $!

It would be easier to put on a set of W-9s

I would get a set of W8 or W9 heads and not look back. Best wedge heads for a small block Chrysler out there.

There is a nice set of W9 all Cnc ported for sale in the small block engines part they need seats and guides that's how most heads come Tim Davis did the port work the price is hard to beat

I know they have made 48 degree W-2 heads but they are pretty rare.

I would check with Ryan Johnson at Shady Dell Speed Shop about Indy options. He is a dealer and can do any mods you might like. I would never recommend anyone deal directly with Indy.

Ryan did an engine for a guy on Drag Week that I think was a 48 degree R-3 with Indy heads and it was very quick. I am not sure what rockers were on it. It was a pristine light green Demon. His first name was Paul, last name escapes me right now. I don't think he is on this board but if so maybe he will speak up.

One down side for some folks on the W-9s is that I think Jesel and T&D are the only rockers available. However great stuff.

Good luck!

Bill

Maybe, maybe not.
IMO, it would depend on if you can do the post-purchase work yourself(or have a friend who can do it really cheap), or if you're going to have to pay another shop to disassemble the heads, do the porting, clean and check everything, and put them back together.
From what ive seen, the valve jobs from Aerohead can be pretty "iffy".
If someone brings me a set of heads to work on, and they want them back assembled and "ready to run", and the valve job sucks....... For me to be the last shop to work on them, if I'm putting them together to run, they're going to get "fixed".

I can see where someone could easily spend another $400-500 on some rebuilt Aerohead heads if they bring them to another shop for some porting and a look over.

If you can do the additional work yourself, and aren't too fussy about the valve job, then I agree that starting with some rebuilt Aeroheads is probably the least expensive way to get there.

Thanks, I'll check out the W9's. They sounded kind of exotic as far as the water manifold and valve train, and coming without valve seats and guides so I hadn't really considered them. I'm assuming they would require custom headers too. I think TTI makes an A-body header for W2's, and I see that Jeg's still sells a W2 head for 48 degree blocks. I only paid a grand for the R-block, it's an early one without the extra bolt holes for the head, and it's not siamesed bore, 9.6" deck.

6 grand for those heads to make them work!

I didnt pay anywhere near that price for my W-9s

6k are you kidding me where are you coming up with 6k rockers 1400 intake 350 valves 400 no whereclose to 6k

i know of few pairs of w7 heads and intake rockers etc cheap ,great heads mine is a r block w7

I think MattW is probably dead on. First, you purchase the heads, then you have them ported and flowed right? Because I've always been told they are ueseless as cast. So what is my bill from Brett Miller or someone when I get them back assembled and ready to bolt on. I'm assuming you would want him to do the intake too right? So now I've purchased an intake and had it flowed. Now I get rockers, valve covers, custom headers, and all the other w-9 specific bits. 6K probably wouldn't cover it all.

First off.. all my parts were 25% less to start
with and the porting wasnt near what your thinking
so it ended up much less

You're right! I doubt 6k CDN would cover it. J.Rob

I think MattW is probably dead on. First, you purchase the heads, then you have them ported and flowed right? Because I've always been told they are ueseless as cast. So what is my bill from Brett Miller or someone when I get them back assembled and ready to bolt on. I'm assuming you would want him to do the intake too right? So now I've purchased an intake and had it flowed. Now I get rockers, valve covers, custom headers, and all the other w-9 specific bits. 6K probably wouldn't cover it all. [/quote]

MattW would know he has gone down this road. His castings were 1g each with no guides or seats but came CNC ported-thank god. Mr. P-body must not realize that these heads require almost 2k in rockers, W9 intake, W9 headers, You're also not going to put a Ferrea 5000 series valve in a head like this so there's $700 or so in good valves, $300-$400 retainers, $600 good PAC springs, the actual guides, seats, seals, guide installation, guide honing, seat installation, valve job, bowl/throat blending, flow testing (not a one time flow test either), intake porting, head resurfacing to get chambers the way you want. I could go on and on. W9's are bad to the bone for the small wedge but not for a real budget deal. J.Rob

MattW would know he has gone down this road. His castings were 1g each with no guides or seats but came CNC ported-thank god. Mr. P-body must not realize that these heads require almost 2k in rockers, W9 intake, W9 headers, You're also not going to put a Ferrea 5000 series valve in a head like this so there's $700 or so in good valves, $300-$400 retainers, $600 good PAC springs, the actual guides, seats, seals, guide installation, guide honing, seat installation, valve job, bowl/throat blending, flow testing (not a one time flow test either), intake porting, head resurfacing to get chambers the way you want. I could go on and on. W9's are bad to the bone for the small wedge but not for a real budget deal. J.Rob [/quote]

I know what I paid.. I built it.. not worth my
time to argue about it.. I guess you dont make
any parts
EDIT
just so we are clear here.. your talking the top end
of the engine, not the lower end

Mike not everyone got %25 off their Mopar parts. If you had nothing, could you buy all new parts and have all the machine work done for the same money today?

If I had nothing I wouldnt be building engines
or cars

I would, but I'd start with gen 3's.

I'm being as clear as I can, Mike.
We are talking about the top end. I have not built a W-9 engine, you have. We are looking for specifics, not one liners.
25% off of what? What did you spend? What did you farm out? What did you do yourself? Don't take the time to argue, or defend your general statements, take the time to spell it out for us. That's what we're looking for, Real 1st person experience.

We are supposed to be clearing the air on SB head choices, so why is it so hard for people to say:

> This is what I chose.
> This is what I spent on heads.
> This is what I spent on an intake
> This is what I spent on rockers
> This is what I spent (in time or money) on port work.
> These are the problems I had, or the things I Do or Don't like about my choice.

One more.

>This was __ years ago.

I bought the heads new, intake new, rockers new
all of that was 25% off, porting was done by
Shady Dell I worked out a deal for $700

On something like the w9 deal, don't forget the:
-water manifold and plumbing
-head gaskets
-head studs
-valve covers
-valley cover

It would be interesting to see some itemized lists of everything that's needed for one of these top ends, along with the current costs of those parts and labor.

Some of you think I built this thing in a couple
of weeks.. no.. it took me a few years to put
this together.. I got a new block at a swap meet
and the valve covers.. the block sat for a while
till I got my machine work done.. including what
I had to do to the block(clearancing the block so
the crank fit... I got the top end parts right
away and after head porting they sat.. I did the
intake porting.. then I got the pistons.. again it
sat.. then the dry sump pump.. I built the tank
and oil pan.. then I started to mock it up a few
times.. so this wasnt a short time... no I didnt
keep all of the receipts

Edelbrock Performer RPM
Shady Dell Stage II Port
2.05 intake valve upgrade
K-motion K-800 solid roller springs.
Erson 1.6 Roller Rockers.
Victor 340 port matched to the heads.

This is what I ended up with after asking about a set of W-2's on here. I'm not real sure, but I expect with these on 408-430 ci in a 2850# car I should be able to hit mid 10's easily without having to RPM it to death or pull the valve covers every other pass. I gave way less than $2500 including shipping and such.

Back to the OP's question, I've seen gobs of stock stroke 340 and 360 stockers going deep into the 10's with "unported" X and J heads. 12's should be a cake walk without spending too much dough at all.

I have to assume that for $2500, you didn't buy all that stuff "new".

No, it came from Bad340Fish.

It just shows that if you ask questions and are in the right place at the right time, deals are out there.

I wonder what the "I want to pick up the phone and order that same package of parts" price would be.

Ohhhh boy!!!!!!!!!! Me too. LOL. Or the non Friends cost on some of these W9 heads.

It's a very rare occurance for me to get a phone call from a potential customer where the build plan for the motor has a projected time frame spanning several years.

Usually, they want to know how much, and how soon can I have it?

I don't even try and stay abreast of who has, or where someone might find heads that are no longer produced, or what they cost.

If someone is interested in using head packages built around components that are no longer produced....... I let them do their own homework and price negotiating.

So, from my perspective, I only recommend parts that are "readily available" to anyone, and where there are reasonable quantities available.

MattW would know he has gone down this road. His castings were 1g each with no guides or seats but came CNC ported-thank god. Mr. P-body must not realize that these heads require almost 2k in rockers, W9 intake, W9 headers, You're also not going to put a Ferrea 5000 series valve in a head like this so there's $700 or so in good valves, $300-$400 retainers, $600 good PAC springs, the actual guides, seats, seals, guide installation, guide honing, seat installation, valve job, bowl/throat blending, flow testing (not a one time flow test either), intake porting, head resurfacing to get chambers the way you want. I could go on and on. W9's are bad to the bone for the small wedge but not for a real budget deal. J.Rob [/quote]

Thx Jesse I did want to have to type it. LOL


Mike I'm not saying YOU didn't do your heads for less. I believe you. Mine on the other hand were not cheap. Than again nothing is.
I"LL SAY IT AGAIN. You want cheap a stock set of Apache G3 will flow the same as My CNC ported W9 heads for a lot less. Yes the have their drawbacks by what engines does not?
To the original OP as stated before a set of cast iron will get the job done.
Hell Phone Jesse and see what he has laying around, or what he can get you.
Dollars is at 1.30 exchange so it maybe worth you call.
Matt

All of the things Dwayne mentions add up fast. Thermostat housing and plumbing I machined. Also the valley cover was necessary to machine. J.Rob

Wonder who that belongs to?

Hughes sells a full CNC port Edelbrock RPM set for 3K, then recommends better exhaust valves and milling to correct chamber volume at extra cost. This gets you a 199cc intake port.

Which is why I couldn't understand all the howling when BPE priced his new 205cc heads at 2125 bare. To me that's a comparable head at a competitive price.

I paid 2595 to the door for my AirWolf 220s in 2013 with beehive springs, lock and retainers specified for a .625 lift fast rate of lift solid flat tappet cam. I went this route because it would allow me re-use my headers, 1.5 Crane gold rockers, intake, and valve covers. Then Brian talked me into selling my M-1 and buying an Edelbrock Super Victor, and letting him whittle on it. so like most projects like this, another 500 I wasn't counting on...

Very nice ritter sells the try all machine up how big is the motor and HP did Brett do the heads

If your talking the above engine then
http://www.hotrod.com/articles/this-436ci-small-block-mopar-makes-big-power-on-pump-gas/

A friend has a very well done set of W9 heads that flow over 400...with the ported intake and everything else needed he said it cost 10 grand Canadian for the top end. ( $7500 US )

The W9's might be overkill (or budget kill) for me. What can you get out of a set of ported W2's on a pump gas 408? I've got 11 cars, so I have to kind of spread the funds out a little. The Dart's current 360 has pushed it to a 13.42 @ 100 mph best, but it's pretty tired now, hence the R-block purchase. I'd like to get it in the low 10's so I'd have a chance at qualifying for Street Machine Eliminator if I went for that class.

I had to go back and verify that this truly was the post about a 12 second set-up recommendation......

My choice w8s flat top on pump e85. ..5.60 at 3080lb..

https://youtu.be/WNMn35JI4G8

To give you a general idea I have two W-2 engines; one pump gas 340 and one race 380. The 340 dynoed 410 and the 380 was 550. 340 used a .486 lift cam, the 380 was 670/630. The 340 had an old port job probably hurt more than helped. Lol. The 380 is unported but they are 48* heads. I believe to get the best out of regular heads you need a cam between 550 and 600 lift. Hope that helps.

B1MAXX...
That was so two pages ago! We are evolving...or devolving, depending on your perspective.

Umm, Shiloh. I just watched that video. From the time you let go of the trans-brake until you clicked it, the tachometer stayed in my "No-Go" zone. Geez!

W9 447" engine I built.
On dyno yesterday.

Sooooo, from the block on up, not including the carb(we'll say everything between the block and the carb)...... That would be more or less than 6k?

Impressive numbers!!

What kind of dyno?
I'm not used to seeing the print outs in .1 second increments.

😂 6k don't even get close.

DYNO-mite dyno.

981HP small block. Yikes!

Sheldon

So,
You have 11 cars, I feel your pain, as I have 9 in total.
you have a 13 second 360 powered 69 Dart.
You have a 48 degree non-siamese R-3 block.

You want an NA street/strip stroker small block in the 408-426 range that will push a street driven Dart to low 10's, but don't feel W-9's will fit the budget, and have asked twice about W-2's.

Before you pursue this any further, serious consideration should be given to adjusting the budget, or your expectations.




This is an article on the engine build for the car Bill is referring to in his post.

http://www.dragzine.com/news/video-428ci-pump-gas-small-block-mopar-built-for-drag-week/

Compare it to MattW's W-9 Build.

http://www.hotrod.com/articles/this-436ci-small-block-mopar-makes-big-power-on-pump-gas/

Then Check out Mike Crow's 420 Ritter aluminum block build for his 69 5 Speed Dart.

https://board.moparts.org/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php/topics/2116453/1.html

Bill's son Clark (Bad340fish) has a 408 W-2 combo that has completed Drag Week, and is currently in the 10.80-90 range in his Barracuda.

My buddy Darryl went 11.00-11.20's in his 69 Dart with a W-2 408 and completed two Drag Weeks.

Both of these are full interior, real deal street cars, and both engines featured roller cams, and quality component throughout.

My 62 Valiant averaged 10.54 for five days on Drag Week, NA with a 428 conventional head, solid ft cam combo, but I'm 300+ pounds lighter than the typical 67-76 A body.

Crow's Dart runs low 10's, and would easily be high nines with an automatic, but he continues to try and go fast with a stick, in a small tire stock suspension class.

Paul's Demon has been 9.70s-9.80's on his two completed Drag Weeks.

What am I trying to say?
I spent 10K on my engine, and I already had the block, rockers, valve covers, oil pan, and headers. I'm quite sure the 408 W-2 roller cam combos weren't any cheaper.

Stepping up to the MattW/Mike Crow/Paul Cornman type small blocks would be nearly double, I would bet.

Very nice numbers there Brett that motor is very impressive

I have a set of w2 heads. On top of a 11.5-1 408, with a .590 MP cam it ran 10.40s with ease.

In a car that could be used to complete Drag Week?
In other words.......... Streetable gearing and converter?
Closed exhaust?



A quick search revealed 2 sources selling 48* W2 heads P5007445AB for about $400/ea bare.
Ultimately, I think this is going to be the least expensive way to get into a 48* top end.
Off the top of my head, I'd say that with the basic machining needed, and "middle of the road" hardware, some minor porting....... You'd still easily spend somewhere in the $2500 range to have a set of ready to install heads.
Then you still need rockers, intake, valve covers, W2 headers.

https://youtu.be/G0qiAfHoEC4

https://youtu.be/qANCeT0Nd1E

Very nice Brett!

Sounds killer!!

From 12's to 7's in 10 days. A new Moparts record. Started out as a 2500 dollar post to a well over 15000 dollar build. LMAO.

Thanks for the info, I've seen a few of those articles before, and they are part of the reason I started going down the small block road instead of my original thought of putting a big block in it. I plugged some numbers into some drag racing calculators, and it looks like if my Dart currently weighs 3500 pounds with me in it, it's probably making 275 hp. It's all steel, full interior, roll bar, frame connectors, always ran through the mufflers. Getting to 10.00 @ 135 mph would take 670 hp, call it 700 hp to be safe. Sounds like a ported set of W2's could possibly get me to 550 hp on a 426" SB. Add a 150 shot of nitrous to hit the low 10's?

Or bite the bullet and pay up for some CNC ported W9's and everything that goes along with them. Might still go that route.

I realize that it's not going to be cheap, just trying to maximize bang for the buck.

OK I think I found something even more expensive

Which bring up a good point. cast iron and starting to get like hens teeth!
If your going to go down this route IMO it would be cheaper the embrace the G3 platform.
But once again just my opinion.

Now, if you are ready to embrace a small shot of nitrous, all becomes right in the world! My 10.39-128 best on Drag Week turned into 9.65-138 this year with a small shot though a plate system.

Never messed with nitrous before, but I'm open to trying it. Just didn't want to try and nitrous my way into the 10's with that 360 that's in there now.

I bought the R block because I wanted a solid foundation to build from, and the 48 degree version seemed like it would be a good idea if I want to run a roller cam. A friend of a friend was racing an Aspen with a 340, and he broke a bunch of blocks and ended up getting out of racing. New R block, never been used for a grand, I figured what the hell, figure out the heads later.

I don't know much about the Gen III Hemi, but I'm open to checking that out too. I could always just sell the R block.

I have a set of Indy 440-SR's I got a good deal on, but I was going to put those on a 440 for my '68 Charger R/T. I got the matching TTI headers for a B/E body with them. If they were EZ's with A-body headers we'd be having a whole different conversation I think.

First off this is not a forsell add. I don't really know the owner. Ok with that said has anybody heard of CPPA. Toth racing heads? I found him on face book. Looks like some nice heads he is selling? I talked to him a little bit. But didn't want to waist his time seeing I don't have the money for a set right now. Here is a screen shot I took with my phone

Oops sorry that first pic was the big block head. Here is the small block one

i've known bruce for quite a few years. he has been doing heads for 30+ years, and does a pretty good job in my opinion. he's a nice guy to boot, and won't try to upgrade you to something you don't need just to make extra bucks.

Hey thanks for the info. Was just asking because I have never heard of him before.

Anyone know what the intake port volume is on a W9 or a W9RP, or what the range is with CNC ported ones? Just curious how it compares to the Indy 360-1.

I believe 260cc to 350cc depending on who does the work.. and can flow close to a 100 more CFM than any 360 - 1

Funniest thing I have read on here in a long time! AND...hits it right on.

OP was swept under the rug after the first few days. Poor guy.

Sorry, my fault.

Just bought a set of W9's and a "772" intake. Thanks for the help everyone. Probably going to take me a while to round up the rest of the pieces of the puzzle. Anyone know where I can get one of those water manifolds that all the water lines from the heads connect to? How about the plate for the valley for a tall deck block?

I had to make all that stuff.. as far as I know
they are not available any more

IIRC there was one for sale in the race parts section last month.

Kent Ritter sells the intake plate there are differant ways to make the water manifold look at some W8-9 engines with the way they mounted and ran the water lines good choice on the heads hopefully Mopar will bring the R blocks back I know there in the works either threw Mopar or there is a guy working with Mopar to buy the tooling

I have a valley pan. If interested shoot me a pm.

My understanding is that the water manifold works on W-8 heads but not W-9. I have a manifold and W-9 heads they don't seem to be compatible at least out of the box.

Bill

Jeff Allison out of Allison Motorsports in Michigan makes valley plates and water manifolds that will work with your w9s.

Thanks, I'll look him up. I'm in Michigan too.