1970 440 HP Convertor Weights
#2274468
03/22/17 09:28 PM
03/22/17 09:28 PM
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After nearly three hours of searching I cannot find anything definitive about the torque converter weights for a 1970 440 HP. I can find tons of information on cast crank weights but not the forged crank heavy rod 440's. Does the converter for a 440 HP have weights? If so how much weight? Is there a weight kit for this (can't find an application in Mopar Performance). Does it straddle the drain plug like the typical converter weight?
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Re: 1970 440 HP Convertor Weights
[Re: 6PakBee]
#2274531
03/22/17 11:02 PM
03/22/17 11:02 PM
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First thing to do is make sure your engine is externally balanced by checking if it has the balance weight on the front of the harmonic balancer. If it does according to the Mopar Performance catalogue you will need to buy a neutral balance torque converter and then buy weight kit part # P4120241. This kit is for externally balanced cast cranks as well as the externally balanced 1970 & 1971 440 six pack engines and all other 440's with heavy rods[all have forged cranks]. Kit comes with a template and instructions.
Last edited by 750-h2; 03/22/17 11:16 PM.
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Re: 1970 440 HP Convertor Weights
[Re: 750-h2]
#2274602
03/23/17 12:56 AM
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.....buy weight kit part # P4120241. This kit is for externally balanced cast cranks as well as the externally balanced 1970 & 1971 440 six pack engines and all other 440's with heavy rods[all have forged cranks]. Kit comes with a template and instructions. I saw that kit during my search and every time it popped up the application was listed as: Torque Converter Balance Weight & Positioning Template Kit Fits Most 1971-'79 383/440 (with cast crank) Fits 1971-'92 360 Fits 1971-'76 340 (with cast crank) There is no mention of the '70 heavy rod steel crank 440. Do you have a copy of the instructions or some other documentation that indicates this kit has this coverage? Appreciate the help.
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Re: 1970 440 HP Convertor Weights
[Re: 451Mopar]
#2274646
03/23/17 05:31 AM
03/23/17 05:31 AM
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I had a '70 440 HP (I think that is the "F" code?) in the '69 convertible when I bought it, but it was a 4-speed. I don't recall any balance stuff on the flywheel? I think the flywheel and clutch assembly is still in a box around here. I sold the engine/trans to a guy doing a superbird clone. The 505" stroked 440 in my car is the '69 "E" code engine.
The flywheel in 70 has no weights added. It has material that is removed to achieve the balance.
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Re: 1970 440 HP Convertor Weights
[Re: fastmark]
#2274694
03/23/17 10:52 AM
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You can buy a flex plate with the proper weights on it to balance the motor and then use a neutral balance converter. That sounded like a real plan until I checked. Anyone I could find did not have an application for a forged crank externally balanced engine. Cast crank yes, forged no. Maybe I'll just have to start calling.
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Re: 1970 440 HP Convertor Weights
[Re: 6PakBee]
#2274710
03/23/17 11:35 AM
03/23/17 11:35 AM
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Bee,I have the drive train out of my 70 R/T at home.It's a 440 u-code car that still has the original motor and trans. I can take a pic of the face of the converter if you want me to.Let me know. John.
1970 Dodge Charger R/T S.E.
1969 Dodge Dart GTS 440 M-Code
1970 Dodge Charger 500 383/4-speed w/A.C.
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Re: 1970 440 HP Convertor Weights
[Re: charge70]
#2274725
03/23/17 12:10 PM
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Bee,I have the drive train out of my 70 R/T at home.It's a 440 u-code car that still has the original motor and trans. I can take a pic of the face of the converter if you want me to.Let me know. John. John, that would be great. I've sent you a PM.
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Re: 1970 440 HP Convertor Weights
[Re: jlatessa]
#2274732
03/23/17 12:20 PM
03/23/17 12:20 PM
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Talked to a rep at B&M this AM and he was at a loss as to the difference in flex plate appearance from mine to what it shows now.
But ours is a forged steel crank and all is well as far as we can tell.
Sorry I couldn't help, Joe Joe, thanks for going the extra step and calling B&M. I was planning on doing that this morning but you doing it was much better. You could start the conversation with "I bought this flexplate from you..." If I had been asked any details I'd been dead in the water.
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Re: 1970 440 HP Convertor Weights
[Re: 6PakBee]
#2274858
03/23/17 04:06 PM
03/23/17 04:06 PM
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.....buy weight kit part # P4120241. This kit is for externally balanced cast cranks as well as the externally balanced 1970 & 1971 440 six pack engines and all other 440's with heavy rods[all have forged cranks]. Kit comes with a template and instructions. I saw that kit during my search and every time it popped up the application was listed as: Torque Converter Balance Weight & Positioning Template Kit Fits Most 1971-'79 383/440 (with cast crank) Fits 1971-'92 360 Fits 1971-'76 340 (with cast crank) There is no mention of the '70 heavy rod steel crank 440. Do you have a copy of the instructions or some other documentation that indicates this kit has this coverage? Appreciate the help. 6PakBee here is a link to the Mopar performance catalogue. Go to the auto trans section and look at the torque converter application chart page 91. There they tell you to use the weight kit P4120241 with the 440 six pack with heavy rods. http://www.mopar.ca/assets/pdf/restoration/CATALOGUEDERESTAURATION2007.pdf
Last edited by 750-h2; 03/23/17 04:29 PM.
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Re: 1970 440 HP Convertor Weights
[Re: 6PakBee]
#2274860
03/23/17 04:09 PM
03/23/17 04:09 PM
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jlatessa
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Aha, good find John, that's what ours looks like. Now why the B&M guy didn't know about it????
You're all set now 6PakBee...
Joe
EDIT, the ad from Summit says "Not available" What the He__!
Last edited by jlatessa; 03/23/17 04:14 PM.
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Re: 1970 440 HP Convertor Weights
[Re: 6PakBee]
#2274868
03/23/17 04:21 PM
03/23/17 04:21 PM
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an8sec70cuda
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B&M 10238 is the correct flexplate for the forged crank, heavy (6 pack) rod 440 that is externally balanced.
It looks like they don't make it anymore? I've checked every website and no one has it (jegs, summit, mancini, etc.)...B&M's own website no longer shows it.
I may still have one out in the shop. The motor I ran it with ('71 HP 440) is now in a 4 speed car...when I freshened up the motor I had it internally balanced so I wouldn't have to deal w/ that ext. crap anymore.
CHIP '70 hemicuda, 575" Hemi, 727, Dana 60 '69 road runner, 440-6, 18 spline 4 speed, Dana 60 '71 Demon, 340, low gear 904, 8.75 '73 Chrysler New Yorker, 440, 727, 8.75 '90 Chevy 454SS Silverado, 476" BBC, TH400, 14 bolt '06 GMC 2500HD LBZ Duramax
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Re: 1970 440 HP Convertor Weights
[Re: 750-h2]
#2274878
03/23/17 04:37 PM
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Thanks for the link! It's somewhat disturbing that one has to go to a 10 year old catalog but I guess that is progress! Thanks again.
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Re: 1970 440 HP Convertor Weights
[Re: John_Kunkel]
#2274879
03/23/17 04:40 PM
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And not available. This is kind of like being on the last lap and running out of gas 50' from the finish line. John, thanks for digging this up. I may just post a wanted ad as this topic is going to come up again and it's nice to have another solution in addition to welding weights.
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Re: 1970 440 HP Convertor Weights
[Re: 6PakBee]
#2274974
03/23/17 07:57 PM
03/23/17 07:57 PM
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OOPS. Didn't notice they were NLA.
Perhaps somebody who has a 10238 flexplate could make a tracing of the cutout and make it available so that the full-circle 10230 flexplate could easily be notched to duplicate it.
The INTERNET, the MISinformation superhighway
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Re: 1970 440 HP Convertor Weights
[Re: John_Kunkel]
#2275060
03/23/17 10:55 PM
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OOPS. Didn't notice they were NLA.
Perhaps somebody who has a 10238 flexplate could make a tracing of the cutout and make it available so that the full-circle 10230 flexplate could easily be notched to duplicate it.
HAHAHA! John, great minds travel in the same gutters.
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Re: 1970 440 HP Convertor Weights
[Re: WO23Coronet]
#2275123
03/24/17 12:43 AM
03/24/17 12:43 AM
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I thought the torque converters on forged crank 440's were all neutral balance, 6pack rods or not? I think the external balancing on 6 pack rod engines was done on the harmonic balancer The 70 and up 440 large rod motors are eternally balanced at the harmonic balancer AND the torque convertor/flywheel
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Re: 1970 440 HP Convertor Weights
[Re: 6PakBee]
#2276599
03/26/17 04:46 PM
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Here are a few pics - showing both 10238 driveplates. One with the weigth and one with the cutout - 180 degrees from where the weight would be. I'll post the tracing in a bit.
Last edited by Transman; 03/26/17 04:48 PM.
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Re: 1970 440 HP Convertor Weights
[Re: 6PakBee]
#2276615
03/26/17 05:04 PM
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more pics
Last edited by Transman; 03/26/17 05:05 PM.
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Re: 1970 440 HP Convertor Weights
[Re: A727Tflite]
#2276883
03/27/17 12:16 AM
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The 1.635" dimension, is that from the edge of the hole?
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Re: 1970 440 HP Convertor Weights
[Re: charge70]
#2276886
03/27/17 12:18 AM
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Bee,I have the drive train out of my 70 R/T at home.It's a 440 u-code car that still has the original motor and trans. I can take a pic of the face of the converter if you want me to.Let me know. John. John, thanks for the pictures and dimensions of the converter weights. If I go this route, I definitely have enough information to do it correctly. Appreciate the help.
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Re: 1970 440 HP Convertor Weights
[Re: A727Tflite]
#2277019
03/27/17 10:09 AM
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6PakBee - yes - from the edge of the hole. Thanks for the detailed sketch. If I can't get hold of one of the flexplates, I'm sure I can lay it out using your drawing.
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Re: 1970 440 HP Convertor Weights
[Re: 6PakBee]
#2290315
04/18/17 10:58 PM
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Just to close this thread out, Transman has the machining capabilities to convert the B&M neutral balance 10230 flexplate to the external balance 10238. He did two for me and now I am set. Thanks so much!!
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Re: 1970 440 HP Convertor Weights
[Re: 6PakBee]
#2290496
04/19/17 11:13 AM
04/19/17 11:13 AM
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Glad you got squared away!
CHIP '70 hemicuda, 575" Hemi, 727, Dana 60 '69 road runner, 440-6, 18 spline 4 speed, Dana 60 '71 Demon, 340, low gear 904, 8.75 '73 Chrysler New Yorker, 440, 727, 8.75 '90 Chevy 454SS Silverado, 476" BBC, TH400, 14 bolt '06 GMC 2500HD LBZ Duramax
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