440 with burned deck
#2255551
02/18/17 05:19 PM
02/18/17 05:19 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 28,068 Irving, TX
feets
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OP
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Irving, TX
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I finally got my old 440 block on the stand to check it out. This was my original TT440 engine and I rattled the detonation so hard I broke 4 rings. I was a few hundred miles from home when I blew the head gasket between 4 and 6. Driving it that far scorched the block.
The engine was pulled, torn down, and stuffed under the bench several years ago.
I was hoping to use this block to build a cruising engine for my Imperial. What are the pros thoughts on this thing?
Deck it and run with whatever scoring is left? Sleeve the two holes? Scrap the block? Other ideas?
We are brothers and sisters doing time on the planet for better or worse. I'll take the better, if you don't mind. - Stu Harmon
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Re: 440 with burned deck
[Re: 1969ronnie]
#2255600
02/18/17 07:19 PM
02/18/17 07:19 PM
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Joined: May 2003
Posts: 1,751 Graham, WA
Polarapete
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top fuel
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Graham, WA
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I have three 440 blocks in my shop right now and none of them are special to me. 1 is a complete 1977 440 MH engine and trans that I bought for $100.00, 1 is a block with main caps that was given to me and the last 1 is one out of a '77 D300 that drove onto the trailer (I paid $800.00 for the complete truck) and it has almost no ridge in the cylinders so it will be a great backup for the one 440 engine that I do care about and it is resting in the Ramcharger.
As to the scored 440...I would slide that back under your bench and find a good, low mile engine from some old man's Chrysler to refresh. Chances are you will spend less that way than doing a lot of machine work trying to make that one well again...but what do I know?
1986 Dodge Ramcharger 440 2wd, Bracket Racer Under Construction 1998 Ram 2500 QuadCab, new daily driver. 2008 Honda Element 2014 Carry-On 7x14 Cargo Trailer
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Re: 440 with burned deck
[Re: 1969ronnie]
#2255605
02/18/17 07:36 PM
02/18/17 07:36 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 28,068 Irving, TX
feets
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hi feets, deck it .010 and see how crooked/uneven ,cooked the deck was and then mabe deck it another .010. ronnie Experimental hacking is the last thing I want to do. If it can be repaired with sleeves then it will need to be decked afterwards. Then, I'll have a block that is decked at least .030 and I will start to run into geometry issues with the intake manifold. I don't think going .010 will be deep enough to clear this up.
We are brothers and sisters doing time on the planet for better or worse. I'll take the better, if you don't mind. - Stu Harmon
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Re: 440 with burned deck
[Re: feets]
#2255671
02/18/17 10:12 PM
02/18/17 10:12 PM
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Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 21,345 Marysville, O-H-I-O
70Cuda383
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Is it already decked? Where's the .030 figure from? My local shop can deck it and basically just 'kiss' the deck after a sleeve and only remove .005. Just enough to set the sleeve flush with the rest.
If it needs .030 to clear that crack, then disregard this post
**Photobucket sucks**
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Re: 440 with burned deck
[Re: feets]
#2255702
02/18/17 11:16 PM
02/18/17 11:16 PM
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Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 36,041 Lincoln Nebraska
RapidRobert
Circle Track
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Circle Track
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Lincoln Nebraska
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I was hoping to use this block to build a cruising engine for my Imperial. What are the pros thoughts on this thing? Scrap the block? Not a pro but I'd be leery of working with it. I would scrap it & find another candidate.
live every 24 hour block of time like it's your last day on earth
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Re: 440 with burned deck
[Re: feets]
#2255751
02/19/17 12:07 AM
02/19/17 12:07 AM
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Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 2,869 Pattison Texas
CSK
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master
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Pattison Texas
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I would want a different block that has not been decked,because I thought you were building a good quench engine , this ditched block will probobly create a shelf piston use problem.
Last edited by csk; 02/19/17 12:12 AM.
1968 Charger COLD A/C Hilborn EFI 512ci 9.7 compression, Stealth heads, 4.10 gear A518 ODtrans 4100lb,10.93 full street car trim 2020 T/A 392 Stock 11.79 @ 114.5
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Re: 440 with burned deck
[Re: feets]
#2255793
02/19/17 01:07 AM
02/19/17 01:07 AM
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Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 43,251 Bend,OR USA
Cab_Burge
I Win
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I've built two motors that had worse deck damage than yours has now, one was in my pump Gas duster and the other is still in a race car today running very well The 440 block melted a Fel Pro Permatorque OEM replacement head gasket between #4 and # 6 cylinder blowing the deck surface and head surface out between those cylinders like a cutting torch does EDITED! I had that block decked welded and then surfaced on a wet grinder, (the weld will break a rotary surfacing wheel ) smooth enough to get a good seal and ended up using a thicker head gasket to race that motor again with 14.5+ to1 compression ratio The second motor was the block that was in my old pump gas Duster, it was blown out between the same cylinders the same way but worse I had it brazed up and had two sleeves put in those two cylinders, it ended up needing two other sleeves on the other side due to pitting I didn't see the deck damage when I bought that block from a friend and we didn't know about the pitting either I beat the snot out of that motor and it ran and ruled the local streets with no problems My message is all thing mechanical are fixable, if you want to spend the money and time fixing them BTW, I bought and use Darton ductile iron sleeves in that block, not cheap but they sure have worked well IHTHs
Last edited by Cab_Burge; 02/19/17 03:49 PM.
Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)
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Re: 440 with burned deck
[Re: feets]
#2255815
02/19/17 01:42 AM
02/19/17 01:42 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 6,531 Jacksonville, FL
Chris2581
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Jacksonville, FL
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I would think a diesel block repair shop that specializes in welding blocks could fix that with no problem.
Nautilus Racing- We use Superformance gaskets and Turbo Action converters/products.
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Re: 440 with burned deck
[Re: feets]
#2256333
02/19/17 11:59 PM
02/19/17 11:59 PM
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Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 350 Houston
it's Bob
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Houston
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Another thing to consider with this block, if you ran it deep enough into detonation long enough and often enough to crack it there (instead of a torch cut) there might be additional cracks or micro-fractures above the ring ridge that have not fully manifested themselves yet. And maybe not in just those two cylinders. There, just waiting until you are in the deep woods of Nova Scotia, alone, at night, miles from a decent bar...sorry...house of ill repute..sorry.. ment to say service facility and then you lose a chunk of block or cylinder wall. You then wander off from the car only to become known as the Nova Scotia Sasquatch due the size of the Imperial and the tracks leading away from the car into the woods.
I'd find another block, in simpler words, if it were me.
Last edited by it's Bob; 02/20/17 04:57 PM.
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Re: 440 with burned deck
[Re: Twostick]
#2256334
02/20/17 12:04 AM
02/20/17 12:04 AM
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Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 36,041 Lincoln Nebraska
RapidRobert
Circle Track
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Circle Track
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Lincoln Nebraska
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That looks more like a crack to me. Agreed, it sure looks like an obvious crack (& a bad/deep/extensive one to boot). I sure would be leery of investing time/money in it.
live every 24 hour block of time like it's your last day on earth
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Re: 440 with burned deck
[Re: feets]
#2257172
02/21/17 02:36 PM
02/21/17 02:36 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 75,071 U.S.S.A.
JohnRR
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Kevin , has this block been previously decked ?
running up my post count some more .
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Re: 440 with burned deck
[Re: JohnRR]
#2258332
02/23/17 09:18 PM
02/23/17 09:18 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 28,068 Irving, TX
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Kevin , has this block been previously decked ? Not to my knowledge. I pulled this engine out of a junk yard around 1990. It looked original to the New Yorker so I don't think it had ever been opened. There have been a couple low budget builds since I've had it but those didn't include decking.
We are brothers and sisters doing time on the planet for better or worse. I'll take the better, if you don't mind. - Stu Harmon
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Re: 440 with burned deck
[Re: feets]
#2259443
02/25/17 08:36 PM
02/25/17 08:36 PM
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Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 2,212 Minnesota
peabodyracing
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In my experience certainly fixable. Couple different ways to repair the crack that I know of. Neither is really cheap though.
Also from my experience when a B/RB block has detonated that bad the main bearing caps will walk around some. You can see this by looking carefully at the mating surfaces.
If they've bounced around the entire block has seen a fair amount of stress. Perhaps that, coupled with the deck surface crack would be enough to make you dubious of trying to save it.
Lead, follow or get the hell out of the way
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Re: 440 with burned deck
[Re: feets]
#2259892
02/26/17 03:52 PM
02/26/17 03:52 PM
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Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 511 Jasper, Indiana
fastnos
mopar
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mopar
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Posts: 511
Jasper, Indiana
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Can't you have the block magnafluxed/sonic checked and tell exactly how thick, and/or deep the crack is? If your local shop can't do this, then you don't want them doing the machine work anyway. Seems cheap insurance to ensure you don't sink a lot of $$$ into it,just to find it'll take a lot more money to fix it right. In the end, only you can decide if it's worth the $$$ outlay, to fix it for what you want it for.
A True Hybrid: Burns Gas AND Rubber!
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Re: 440 with burned deck
[Re: feets]
#2260480
02/27/17 02:12 PM
02/27/17 02:12 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 75,071 U.S.S.A.
JohnRR
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I Win
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Kevin , has this block been previously decked ? Not to my knowledge. I pulled this engine out of a junk yard around 1990. It looked original to the New Yorker so I don't think it had ever been opened. There have been a couple low budget builds since I've had it but those didn't include decking. Is having the decks squared in the budget for this, that should pretty much clean that out ... assuming it's not actually a crack, which can be found via a magnaflux which would be the first thing to do to this block considering it's history.
running up my post count some more .
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