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New fasteners on every build #2234264
01/14/17 10:17 PM
01/14/17 10:17 PM
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Rittman Ohio
fourgearsavoy Offline OP
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I have always used new fasteners on all internal parts every time I build something.I recently got some new ring gear bolts at Summit and was thinking I just changed them 5 years ago when I put the 3.54's in.Do you guys change ring gear bolts,flywheel bolts,pressure plate bolts etc. when you have them apart? I just think it's just cheap insurance to use new top quality fasteners when you have it apart shruggy
Now I know an aircraft tech and he says sometimes it's better to know what you have instead of using new.
Do you guys use new bolts every time you change out rotating high stress parts like flywheels and ring gears?

Gus beer


64 Plymouth Savoy
493 Indy EZ's by Nick at Compu-Flow
5-Speed Richmond faceplate Liberty box
Dana 60
Re: New fasteners on every build [Re: fourgearsavoy] #2234280
01/14/17 10:35 PM
01/14/17 10:35 PM
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The Netherlands
BigBlockMopar Offline
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No.
Old parts have proven themselves to be good.
New parts haven't yet...

Re: New fasteners on every build [Re: BigBlockMopar] #2234281
01/14/17 10:37 PM
01/14/17 10:37 PM
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Round Lake Beach, Illinoisy
Rhinodart Offline
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No, I don't trust fasteners anymore, how do you know for sure where they are made? The original fasteners worked just fine, if they still look good I use them. twocents


The funny thing about science is that if you change one miniscule parameter you change the entire outcome to the way you want it.

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Re: New fasteners on every build [Re: fourgearsavoy] #2234287
01/14/17 10:41 PM
01/14/17 10:41 PM
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Mass
DAYCLONA Offline
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Originally Posted By fourgearsavoy
I have always used new fasteners on all internal parts every time I build something.I recently got some new ring gear bolts at Summit and was thinking I just changed them 5 years ago when I put the 3.54's in.Do you guys change ring gear bolts,flywheel bolts,pressure plate bolts etc. when you have them apart? I just think it's just cheap insurance to use new top quality fasteners when you have it apart shruggy
Now I know an aircraft tech and he says sometimes it's better to know what you have instead of using new.
Do you guys use new bolts every time you change out rotating high stress parts like flywheels and ring gears?

Gus beer




I toss any critical fastener previously used, be it engine, trans, rear end, suspension, braking system, a fastener can only survive just so many stretch, stress, along with heat cycles before failure...I generally prefer to increase the grade/tensile of the fastener if I can when replacing it

Re: New fasteners on every build [Re: fourgearsavoy] #2234299
01/14/17 10:55 PM
01/14/17 10:55 PM
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Bitopia
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jcc Offline
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On this topic, I would say one of the most re torqued, without at least a torque wrench, possibly over tightened with an impact, cyclically stressed, non redundant, critical fasteners, is also one of the least replaced items on a high performance car, the wheel studs. work

Last edited by jcc; 01/14/17 11:36 PM.

Reality check, that half the population is smarter then 50% of the people and it's a constantly contested fact.
Re: New fasteners on every build [Re: Rhinodart] #2234348
01/14/17 11:50 PM
01/14/17 11:50 PM
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up yours
Supercuda Offline
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Originally Posted By Rhinodart
No, I don't trust fasteners anymore, how do you know for sure where they are made? The original fasteners worked just fine, if they still look good I use them. twocents


ARP


They say there are no such thing as a stupid question.
They say there is always the exception that proves the rule.
Don't be the exception.
Re: New fasteners on every build [Re: fourgearsavoy] #2234375
01/15/17 12:24 AM
01/15/17 12:24 AM
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Bend,OR USA
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Gus, if it ain't broken, don't fix it tsk twocents
if marginal or suspect replace it with better parts up


Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)
Re: New fasteners on every build [Re: Cab_Burge] #2234385
01/15/17 12:35 AM
01/15/17 12:35 AM
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Eagle, Idaho
Neil Online content
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New ARP bolts inside the engine. Other less important stuff is replaced if it shows wear and tear and looks suspect.

My last engine rebuild was based from an engine that came from a van that burned to the ground so I bought all new fasteners throughout.

Re: New fasteners on every build [Re: fourgearsavoy] #2234638
01/15/17 02:05 PM
01/15/17 02:05 PM
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Oregon
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AndyF Online content
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I don't replace bolts unless I see a problem with them. I throw bolts and nuts away if they have any damage but otherwise just clean them and put them back into service. Bolts are basically springs and we reuse springs over and over until they get damaged or lose tension.

Re: New fasteners on every build [Re: AndyF] #2235125
01/16/17 02:34 AM
01/16/17 02:34 AM
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Aurora, Oh.
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max_maniac Offline
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Gus, I have changed gears in my Dana at least 5 times if not more. I am going to change them again and this time I will change out all of the bolts. May not need to but after this many times why take the chance - shruggy

Re: New fasteners on every build [Re: fourgearsavoy] #2235137
01/16/17 02:45 AM
01/16/17 02:45 AM
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Omaha Nebraska
Brian_wo Offline
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Never


who is that guy?
Re: New fasteners on every build [Re: DAYCLONA] #2235162
01/16/17 04:04 AM
01/16/17 04:04 AM
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RSNOMO Offline
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Originally Posted By DAYCLONA
I toss any critical fastener previously used, be it engine, trans, rear end, suspension, braking system, a fastener can only survive just so many stretch, stress, along with heat cycles before failure...I generally prefer to increase the grade/tensile of the fastener if I can when replacing it



Absolutely spot-on...

Re: New fasteners on every build [Re: RSNOMO] #2235178
01/16/17 10:09 AM
01/16/17 10:09 AM
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robertop Offline
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Originally Posted By RS23U1G
Originally Posted By DAYCLONA
I toss any critical fastener previously used, be it engine, trans, rear end, suspension, braking system, a fastener can only survive just so many stretch, stress, along with heat cycles before failure...I generally prefer to increase the grade/tensile of the fastener if I can when replacing it



Absolutely spot-on...
That's what most people believe. Without any metallurgical background, of course...

Re: New fasteners on every build [Re: robertop] #2235235
01/16/17 12:49 PM
01/16/17 12:49 PM
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DAYCLONA Offline
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Originally Posted By robertop
Originally Posted By RS23U1G
Originally Posted By DAYCLONA
I toss any critical fastener previously used, be it engine, trans, rear end, suspension, braking system, a fastener can only survive just so many stretch, stress, along with heat cycles before failure...I generally prefer to increase the grade/tensile of the fastener if I can when replacing it



Absolutely spot-on...
That's what most people believe. Without any metallurgical background, of course...






Actually I have 35+ years experience in a metallurgical/engineering field

Re: New fasteners on every build [Re: fourgearsavoy] #2235315
01/16/17 02:37 PM
01/16/17 02:37 PM
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fredericksburg,va
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cudaman1969 Offline
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Send me all your wore out bolts, I'll get rid of them for you.

Re: New fasteners on every build [Re: robertop] #2235415
01/16/17 04:50 PM
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RSNOMO Offline
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Originally Posted By robertop
metallurgical background



Which is the exact reason why I agreed...

Re: New fasteners on every build [Re: DAYCLONA] #2236576
01/18/17 09:06 AM
01/18/17 09:06 AM
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robertop Offline
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Ok, so explain better your statement. By the way I was the senior metallurgist in one of the major independent test labs in the south for 34 years, so we speak the same language.

Re: New fasteners on every build [Re: robertop] #2236836
01/18/17 05:35 PM
01/18/17 05:35 PM
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Rittman Ohio
fourgearsavoy Offline OP
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So in your expert opinion is a visual inspection all that is needed to reject a fastener? I have been a technician for over 30 years and have rebuilt probably 100 engines of all types. I always replace head bolts and main cap bolts on an engine that has been in service for 50 years and is going to be whooped on repeatedly. On regular passenger car engines that have come in to the dealership that need a rebuild due to head gasket failure I always replace the head bolts. What is your professional opinion on reusing plastic region stretch bolts.
I've been doing a lot of rebuilds lately and sometimes the head bolts don't seem to pull that 90 degree turn all the same, some feel like they pull down easier than the others. The bolts are too long to fit my calipers so I have never tried to measure them for comparison.
Thanks
Gus beer


64 Plymouth Savoy
493 Indy EZ's by Nick at Compu-Flow
5-Speed Richmond faceplate Liberty box
Dana 60
Re: New fasteners on every build [Re: fourgearsavoy] #2237070
01/19/17 01:03 AM
01/19/17 01:03 AM
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robertop Offline
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Obviously if a bolt has stretched or is corroded, bent, or visually damaged, by all means throw it away. If you are not sure, you can measure the hardness, check its structure and grade (destructive tests, in general) and chemistry to see where you are. And as far as fatigue one must know if the stress on it is in the fatigue range, and so is temperature, that has to be high enough to affect the metal. All of these tests make sense in a lab, but practically it's much cheaper and easier to use new fasteners, so I don't have a problem with that.

Re: New fasteners on every build [Re: robertop] #2237187
01/19/17 11:33 AM
01/19/17 11:33 AM
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Originally Posted By robertop
Obviously if a bolt has stretched or is corroded, bent, or visually damaged, by all means throw it away. If you are not sure, you can measure the hardness, check its structure and grade (destructive tests, in general) and chemistry to see where you are. And as far as fatigue one must know if the stress on it is in the fatigue range, and so is temperature, that has to be high enough to affect the metal. All of these tests make sense in a lab, but practically it's much cheaper and easier to use new fasteners, so I don't have a problem with that.


I look at it this way, there are certain fasteners in an engine that, if they fail, the cost to repair far outweighs the cost to initially replace. Rod and main bolts come to mind. Head bolts don't quite fall into that category for me but the thought of hanging over a fender wrasslin' a head off because the headgasket failed due to a soft headbolt puts those into the replace category for me.

The rest, not so much.


They say there are no such thing as a stupid question.
They say there is always the exception that proves the rule.
Don't be the exception.
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