Re: JW Ultrabell with 727 Tranmission and Starter doesnt fit
[Re: Sammy]
#2082409
05/29/16 06:29 PM
05/29/16 06:29 PM
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 11,726 Fulton County, PA
CMcAllister
Mr. Helpful
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Mr. Helpful
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 11,726
Fulton County, PA
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What does the ring gear to starter pinion relationship look like? Close to being correct? Not unusual to have to shim them. The bellhousing kits used to include shims. I had 1/2" worth of spacer in mine and an extension on the nose of the starter.
If the results don't match the theory, change the theory.
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Re: JW Ultrabell with 727 Tranmission and Starter doesnt fit
[Re: CMcAllister]
#2082412
05/29/16 06:34 PM
05/29/16 06:34 PM
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Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 1,824 Wind Gap,Pa.
Sammy
OP
top fuel
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OP
top fuel
Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 1,824
Wind Gap,Pa.
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What does the ring gear to starter pinion relationship look like? Close to being correct? Not unusual to have to shim them. The bellhousing kits used to include shims. I had 1/2" worth of spacer in mine and an extension on the nose of the starter. Never thought I'd have to shim this Ultrabell to a 727 transmission. I believe you and I'm glad you brought that to my attention. Thankyou I would have though shims for a BB mopar to a TH400 or a powerglide but not for a fixed ring gear attached to the converter for a BB 727. This really ticks me off. If this was the case I wouldn't have even bothered to do the swap.
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Re: JW Ultrabell with 727 Tranmission and Starter doesnt fit
[Re: Sammy]
#2082417
05/29/16 06:41 PM
05/29/16 06:41 PM
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Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 20,203 PA.
pittsburghracer
"Little"John
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"Little"John
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 20,203
PA.
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I just cut the bellhousing off my powerglide and I too had issues getting the starter in. Luckily I had my big block ultrabell sitting there and all I had to do was file the starter snout with a flat file. 5-6 times out from under the car and it slide in nicely. I used 3 of the 5-6 provided shims to get the proper engagement. Not a big project.
1970 Duster Edelbrock headed 408 5.984@112.52 422 Indy headed small block 5.982@112.56 mph 9.42@138.27
Livin and lovin life one day at a time
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Re: JW Ultrabell with 727 Tranmission and Starter doesnt fit
[Re: Sammy]
#2082504
05/29/16 09:20 PM
05/29/16 09:20 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 12,295 Benton, IL.
DaveRS23
Special needs idiot
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Special needs idiot
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 12,295
Benton, IL.
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I mocked my new 'bell onto the engine with the torque converter and starter BEFORE I ever mounted it on the tranny. I have read too many stories on here.
I had to file down the nose on my mini starter to get it to fit into the 'bell, so I'm glad I did a test fit.
Master, again and still
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Re: JW Ultrabell with 727 Tranmission and Starter doesnt fit
[Re: Sammy]
#2082535
05/29/16 10:41 PM
05/29/16 10:41 PM
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Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 20,203 PA.
pittsburghracer
"Little"John
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"Little"John
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 20,203
PA.
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Are you guys filing the front of the starter or the sides? How much needs to be filed? Is the depth or the width the issue here? I have TTI headers 1 piece and to get the starter out is rough. If you look at several mopar starters you will notice a big difference in the way the nose is shaped. Mine required very little filing on the champher of the nose with a flat file but I went slowly because it locates the starter because the bolt holes are oversized. On my other adapter plate set-up I used to always go ahead and cut the nose off so I could change out the starters quickly if needed at the track. For this set-up I ran up to the Advance Auto website and ordered a starter for a 1995 Dodge truck and took advantage of the discounts and ran to the store to pick it up. Heck honestly I could have laid on my back under the car to do it but it was easier at 60 years old to climb out an file while sitting on a chair. Sometimes I wish I had a lift. LOL
1970 Duster Edelbrock headed 408 5.984@112.52 422 Indy headed small block 5.982@112.56 mph 9.42@138.27
Livin and lovin life one day at a time
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Re: JW Ultrabell with 727 Tranmission and Starter doesnt fit
[Re: Sammy]
#2082536
05/29/16 10:44 PM
05/29/16 10:44 PM
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Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 20,203 PA.
pittsburghracer
"Little"John
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"Little"John
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 20,203
PA.
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Are you guys filing the front of the starter or the sides? How much needs to be filed? Is the depth or the width the issue here? I have TTI headers 1 piece and to get the starter out is rough. To add to this I have the Headmen 1 7/8 headers on my small block and mine has LOTS of room.
1970 Duster Edelbrock headed 408 5.984@112.52 422 Indy headed small block 5.982@112.56 mph 9.42@138.27
Livin and lovin life one day at a time
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Re: JW Ultrabell with 727 Tranmission and Starter doesnt fit
[Re: moparx]
#2082726
05/30/16 11:18 AM
05/30/16 11:18 AM
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Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 20,203 PA.
pittsburghracer
"Little"John
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"Little"John
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 20,203
PA.
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any pics of the interference and the filing required ? what do the shims look like ? just multiples of the "dust cover" shims or something completely different ? No picture and I took a quick look for my spare shims to take a picture but I'm pretty sure they are in my car trailer. The race car and quad are both in the trailer so its impossible to get to them. Pretty sure this is the part number on Summit so you may be able to see a picture of the shims on JW's website. They are a lot nicer than the shims I made years ago so I stick to these now. http://www.summitracing.com/parts/jpt-92472/applications/
1970 Duster Edelbrock headed 408 5.984@112.52 422 Indy headed small block 5.982@112.56 mph 9.42@138.27
Livin and lovin life one day at a time
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Re: JW Ultrabell with 727 Tranmission and Starter doesnt fit
[Re: CMcAllister]
#2082758
05/30/16 12:18 PM
05/30/16 12:18 PM
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972 Romeo MI
MR_P_BODY
Master
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Master
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
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What does the ring gear to starter pinion relationship look like? Close to being correct? Not unusual to have to shim them. The bellhousing kits used to include shims. I had 1/2" worth of spacer in mine and an extension on the nose of the starter. If it lines up with the starter ring correctly as said and the nose is all the way in.. I would make up a plate as a spacer that supports the whole starter...not just the bolt holes.. but make sure its engaging correctly into the starter ring first thing... you could weld it to the housing or just slip it on the starter.. either way would work
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Re: JW Ultrabell with 727 Tranmission and Starter doesnt fit
[Re: Sammy]
#2082931
05/30/16 05:46 PM
05/30/16 05:46 PM
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Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 368 michigan
turbo toad
enthusiast
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enthusiast
Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 368
michigan
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Bought this kit about 2 weeks ago from jegs using it to adapt a JW ULTRABELL to powerglide heres a pic of the shim pack and starter nose extension I theres actually 5 shims in the pack Hope this helps
Last edited by turbo toad; 05/30/16 05:47 PM.
Check out my build on Facebook Ttoad Hurley its updated regularly
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Re: JW Ultrabell with 727 Tranmission and Starter doesnt fit
[Re: Sammy]
#2082944
05/30/16 06:10 PM
05/30/16 06:10 PM
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 11,726 Fulton County, PA
CMcAllister
Mr. Helpful
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Mr. Helpful
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 11,726
Fulton County, PA
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That's all it is. I used their shim for a pattern and made thick spacers. Actually it was 2 spacers made from 1/4" 6061 since it was easier for me to work with than 1/2 thick material.
Last edited by CMcAllister; 05/30/16 06:22 PM.
If the results don't match the theory, change the theory.
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Re: JW Ultrabell with 727 Tranmission and Starter doesnt fit
[Re: Sammy]
#2083078
05/30/16 10:11 PM
05/30/16 10:11 PM
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Joined: May 2007
Posts: 553 Sac, CA, USA
ntstlgl1970
mopar
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mopar
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 553
Sac, CA, USA
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On mine the pocket ID was too small to fit the nose of an original Nippondenso mini starter. Had it machined larger and all was well, sat flush with the bellhousing no shims required
Last edited by ntstlgl1970; 05/30/16 10:13 PM.
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Re: JW Ultrabell with 727 Tranmission and Starter doesnt fit
[Re: ntstlgl1970]
#2083080
05/30/16 10:14 PM
05/30/16 10:14 PM
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Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 1,824 Wind Gap,Pa.
Sammy
OP
top fuel
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OP
top fuel
Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 1,824
Wind Gap,Pa.
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On mine the pocket ID was too small to fit the nose of an original Nippondenso mini starter. Had it machined larger and all was well I had a feeling this was the issue. I really don't want to take this whole transmission out again. How much was machined off in the pocket?
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Re: JW Ultrabell with 727 Tranmission and Starter doesnt fit
[Re: Sammy]
#2083213
05/31/16 01:10 AM
05/31/16 01:10 AM
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972 Romeo MI
MR_P_BODY
Master
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Master
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
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You could measure the snout on the starter then the hole in the bell... you could drill it in place but will take a bit of extra work.. you will need a drill bit for the size of the snout... you will need a bar with that size hole asa alignment tool... start drilling the hole then grind the end of the bit off making it a bottoming bit.. then finish with the bottoming bit.. all the time going through the alignment bar so your square.. hope you got the idea EDIT But make DAMN SURE thats the issue.. and make sure the gap is the amount of the snout.. minus the smaller area
Last edited by MR_P_BODY; 05/31/16 01:13 AM.
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