Re: Welding for a novice/newbie
[Re: justinp61]
#2046269
04/04/16 02:27 PM
04/04/16 02:27 PM
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Joined: May 2003
Posts: 1,751 Graham, WA
Polarapete
top fuel
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top fuel
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 1,751
Graham, WA
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I just got another small roll of flux core wire and will use it with the c25 gas. This process is called dual shield welding and produces near perfect welds for newbies. This is hilarious but April Fools was Friday! This is like wearing suspenders AND a belt - totally unnecessary. Learn to weld with either/or but both is a crutch you'll never get rid of. And to the point of producing "near perfect" welds, lets focus on that. First the word "near" - so they're still not "perfect" so why bother! Second, the shielding plays such a small role in the whole scheme of things that using two shielding methods is ridiculous. Torch angle, stickout, voltage/amperage settings and speed of travel play a much larger role in the quality of the weld. Shielding ... you set the gas flow and forget it! Seriously, you don't take advice from a "beginner" on how to weld !! Actually shielded gas flux core mig is a very good process in applications that require a lot of penetration. It's also very good for vertical up. It's not needed for sheet metal or light fab work. I had never seen it used before and I am not a newbie as Stanton seems to think. I started playing with welders in high school metal shop and used a huge DC arc welder to box and Z a Model A frame. I developed some bad habits over the years and found the refresher course helpful. I don't weld every day as some of you do, but I have the equipment to do so. Still playing with cars and will be 70 in August. Just another Old Fart.
1986 Dodge Ramcharger 440 2wd, Bracket Racer Under Construction 1998 Ram 2500 QuadCab, new daily driver. 2008 Honda Element 2014 Carry-On 7x14 Cargo Trailer
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Re: Welding for a novice/newbie
[Re: roe]
#2046287
04/04/16 02:48 PM
04/04/16 02:48 PM
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Joined: May 2008
Posts: 5,399 Aurora, Colorado
451Mopar
master
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master
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 5,399
Aurora, Colorado
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The welding class is a good idea. Most welding shops will give you student discounts. The class will also go over all the safety stuff you should know about. Stuff like phosgene gas, or welding a container that had flammable material in it (un purged) can kill you. A class will also develop your skills faster, and show you how to inspect and test your welds. As mentioned, one issue mostly seen in mig welding (compared to other weld processes), is a nice looking weld that has no penetration. Besides the welder, you will need a helmet, gloves, and a 4" grinder with a wire wheel at minimum. For grinding I like to use 60-grit flap wheels and the thin cutoff wheels. Others like the standard grinding wheels.
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Re: Welding for a novice/newbie
[Re: roe]
#2046289
04/04/16 02:50 PM
04/04/16 02:50 PM
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Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 21,318 Manitoba, Canada
DaytonaTurbo
Too Many Posts
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Too Many Posts
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 21,318
Manitoba, Canada
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I have a Lincoln Handy Mig.
http://www.lincolnelectric.com/en-ca/equipment/Pages/product.aspx?product=K2185-1(LincolnElectric)
I bought it years ago for $250 off ebay (new in box). I bought it because at the time I only had access to 110v. It does MIG and flux core wire. Comes with a basic regulator for the argon/co2 gas and welds up to 1/8" steel. Wire feed speed is an infinitely adjustable dial, heat is a 4 position switch. I have found it capable to do all repairs on these old cars. It's more than enough to do sheet metal repairs, floor pans, frame connectors and frame patching. Not much on these old cars is even 1/8" thick unless you're talking about welding diff parts or motor mounts. I've put a decent amount of use on it and it's done me well. I would like to upgrade to a bigger machine so I could weld heavier steel, but the reality is that it's very rare I have a need for that. I would definitely buy this machine again. FWIW I did use my buddy's fancy Miller at his body shop a bit to do some panel patching, and for that kind of work, I didn't really find his did any better of a job than mine.
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Re: Welding for a novice/newbie
[Re: roe]
#2046413
04/04/16 05:27 PM
04/04/16 05:27 PM
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Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 9,031 Ontario, Canada
Stanton
Don't question me!
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Don't question me!
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 9,031
Ontario, Canada
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FWIW I did use my buddy's fancy Miller at his body shop a bit to do some panel patching, and for that kind of work, I didn't really find his did any better of a job than mine. But when it comes to welding thicker stuff, will yours do as good of a job as his ???? Nobody is denying the ability of a 110v welder to do sheet metal, they just lack the balls to do heavy stuff which limits their versatility. But as is typical of this site, someone's going to say they've welded 1/2" plate with one !!
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Re: Welding for a novice/newbie
[Re: Stanton]
#2046416
04/04/16 05:34 PM
04/04/16 05:34 PM
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Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 21,318 Manitoba, Canada
DaytonaTurbo
Too Many Posts
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Too Many Posts
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 21,318
Manitoba, Canada
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FWIW I did use my buddy's fancy Miller at his body shop a bit to do some panel patching, and for that kind of work, I didn't really find his did any better of a job than mine. But when it comes to welding thicker stuff, will yours do as good of a job as his ???? Nobody is denying the ability of a 110v welder to do sheet metal, they just lack the balls to do heavy stuff which limits their versatility. But as is typical of this site, someone's going to say they've welded 1/2" plate with one !! Absolutely! However how much 1/2" thick stuff is there on these old cars? Hint: not much. How much steel is thicker than 1/8" on these old cars? Hint: not much. The little 110v Lincoln can handle 95% of the jobs there is to do on these old cars. I said I would like to upgrade to a bigger machine, so I can tackle that last 5%.
Last edited by DaytonaTurbo; 04/04/16 05:34 PM.
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Re: Welding for a novice/newbie
[Re: 1971 Gran Coupe]
#2046774
04/05/16 12:41 AM
04/05/16 12:41 AM
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 3,344 Central TX
roe
OP
master
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OP
master
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 3,344
Central TX
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First of all thanks to everyone for taking the time to add to the discussion and share your opinions. After taking it all in I'm going with a combination of a few people's advice. I'm going to go with something new for the warranty and with consumables that are easily found. I'm also going to stay within my budget and get something that should handle everything I need to tackle no problem. It's a mig machine so I can do flux core, mig, or the dual shield. I'm going to pick up the Eastwood recommended below by 1971GranCoupe. I'm also going to look into a welding class and if no luck there I'll see if I can get a local welder to give me some tips/guidance. http://www.eastwood.com/mig-welder-110vac-135a-output.htmlThanks roe
1971 Plymouth Satellite 408/904 8 3/4 3.23 SG
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Re: Welding for a novice/newbie
[Re: krautrock]
#2046783
04/05/16 12:50 AM
04/05/16 12:50 AM
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 3,344 Central TX
roe
OP
master
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OP
master
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 3,344
Central TX
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Will do. I hear the auto darkening hoods from harbor freight are pretty good. But here is where I will get something that I have full confidence in and not sweat it. I like my eyesight Edit: Lso need some welding gloves and maybe a welding blanket
Last edited by roe; 04/05/16 01:00 AM.
1971 Plymouth Satellite 408/904 8 3/4 3.23 SG
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Re: Welding for a novice/newbie
[Re: dynorad]
#2046962
04/05/16 11:18 AM
04/05/16 11:18 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 28,096 Irving, TX
feets
Senior Management
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Senior Management
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 28,096
Irving, TX
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I own a welding supply business. 140A is OK for sheetmetal, anything much bigger will not penetrate and you will get something that looks like a weld but is not. 180A is a nice size. We sell both Lincoln and Miller, they are both fine. A new option is Forney. The Forney uses standard Tweco consumables and has the heavy duty wire drive like the industrial grade Lincoln machines. I personally would not buy a Harbor Freight. If it needs repair you are SOL. I guess there is a big difference between owning a business and being familiar with the product. I have welded 3/8 plate with my little 110 machine then beat the crap out of the piece. I ended up tearing the plate but never broke the weld. It was good enough for me to put together a goose neck trailer hitch plate for the bed of my truck. That hauled 18,000 lbs of steel from OKC to DFW. Tell me again how bad a 110 VAC machine is. I no doubt maxed my machine but with careful prep and proper use you can do quite a bit of work with them.
We are brothers and sisters doing time on the planet for better or worse. I'll take the better, if you don't mind. - Stu Harmon
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Re: Welding for a novice/newbie
[Re: roe]
#2046964
04/05/16 11:22 AM
04/05/16 11:22 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 28,096 Irving, TX
feets
Senior Management
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Senior Management
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 28,096
Irving, TX
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Will do. I hear the auto darkening hoods from harbor freight are pretty good. But here is where I will get something that I have full confidence in and not sweat it. I like my eyesight Edit: Lso need some welding gloves and maybe a welding blanket I ran one of those for years. When it died in the middle of a job at work I ran to Lowes and picked up one of their auto darkening hoods. It was MUCH nicer than the HF piece of junk. Again, a bit more money but not that much. It made a significant difference.
We are brothers and sisters doing time on the planet for better or worse. I'll take the better, if you don't mind. - Stu Harmon
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Re: Welding for a novice/newbie
[Re: feets]
#2046977
04/05/16 11:41 AM
04/05/16 11:41 AM
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Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 23,273 Here
jcc
If you can't dazzle em with diamonds..
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If you can't dazzle em with diamonds..
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 23,273
Here
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I own a welding supply business. 140A is OK for sheetmetal, anything much bigger will not penetrate and you will get something that looks like a weld but is not. 180A is a nice size. We sell both Lincoln and Miller, they are both fine. A new option is Forney. The Forney uses standard Tweco consumables and has the heavy duty wire drive like the industrial grade Lincoln machines. I personally would not buy a Harbor Freight. If it needs repair you are SOL. I guess there is a big difference between owning a business and being familiar with the product. I have welded 3/8 plate with my little 110 machine and beat the crap out of it. I ended up tearing the plate but never broke the weld. It was good enough for me to put together a goose neck trailer hitch plate for the bed of my truck. That hauled 18,000 lbs of steel from OKC to DFW. Tell me again how bad a 110 VAC machine is. I no doubt maxed my machine but with careful prep and proper use you can do quite a bit of work with them. Well the Space Shuttle did pretty well on on the first 24 launches, but the that number 25 was a bummer. Big difference between what can be done and what should be done.
" All sorts of things can happen when you are open to new Ideas" Inventor of Kevlar
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Re: Welding for a novice/newbie
[Re: Stanton]
#2046999
04/05/16 12:15 PM
04/05/16 12:15 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 28,096 Irving, TX
feets
Senior Management
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Senior Management
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 28,096
Irving, TX
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So OP, are ya sorry ya posted here? Like everything else, it turns into a pissing match and you end up wondering "[ Moparts Family Site - Keep it Friendly ] did I just start". And since amateurs outnumber the pros, you're exposed to all the bad practices that these guys got lucky with as opposed to the safe practices the pros know will stand the test of time. If you use a machine within it's rated capacity and do so properly you will be fine. If you try to use a machine outside it's rated capacity you will not have a good result.
We are brothers and sisters doing time on the planet for better or worse. I'll take the better, if you don't mind. - Stu Harmon
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Re: Welding for a novice/newbie
[Re: 451Mopar]
#2047173
04/05/16 03:35 PM
04/05/16 03:35 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 28,096 Irving, TX
feets
Senior Management
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Senior Management
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 28,096
Irving, TX
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A small welder has the power for sheet metal, and if your just hanging sheet metal and the weld cracks, you may get a crack in the paint. If your welding a rollbar or suspension that's another story. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cMoXOky6buA I've seen bad welds made with top notch equipment. If you use the machine properly and within it's designed limits you should be fine. Use ANY machine improperly and you will have problems. Use ANY machine outside it's designated limits and you will have problems.
We are brothers and sisters doing time on the planet for better or worse. I'll take the better, if you don't mind. - Stu Harmon
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Re: Welding for a novice/newbie
[Re: feets]
#2047181
04/05/16 03:44 PM
04/05/16 03:44 PM
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Joined: May 2008
Posts: 5,399 Aurora, Colorado
451Mopar
master
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master
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 5,399
Aurora, Colorado
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I've seen bad welds made with top notch equipment. If you use the machine properly and within it's designed limits you should be fine. Use ANY machine improperly and you will have problems. Use ANY machine outside it's designated limits and you will have problems. I agree, you have to learn proper prep and welding technique (and saftey) that is why the class is recommended.
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