Re: are distributors indxed the same from the factory?
[Re: buildanother]
#2007748
02/08/16 02:14 AM
02/08/16 02:14 AM
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Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 36,041 Lincoln Nebraska
RapidRobert
Circle Track
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Circle Track
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 36,041
Lincoln Nebraska
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I would think that the OE ones would be pretty much the same for phasing. If a person ain't using vac adv you can install/pump up the can till the phasing is dead on then drill straight down at that point thru both plates then lock em in that clocking with a thin grade 8 bolt/nut with a spacer inbetween the plates to keep em parallel when you tighten down the nut. In operation only the vac adv can changes phasing. You can redrill the reluctor and Eberg sells the redrilled reluctors that I believe Andy used to sell. I ain't done it yet but I think a person could make another notch on the other side of the dist shaft with the OE notch that the rotor currently fits into, just offset the new one (measure thrice) clocked correctly and I wondering if a person could file the present OE notch sideways in the direction that it needs to go then JBweld the other horizontle wall back to get the notch width back its original dimention. The shaft is stout & I dont think a second notch would compromise its integrity. Generally you want the rotor to swing equidistant on either side of the centerline of the cap terminal & reducing the rotor tip to cap terminal radial clearance to .015" helps phasing as its the total distance (circumferential+radial) that if it is too great it will misfire expecially under load when the required voltage is the greatest. NAPA has an Echlin brand rotor (MO3000) for $8 & change out the door that has a .060" longer metal blade but you can easily fab your own & get the clearance exactly where you want it (the .015" for your exact dist tolerances (clearances).
live every 24 hour block of time like it's your last day on earth
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Re: are distributors indxed the same from the factory?
[Re: Andrewh]
#2007750
02/08/16 02:19 AM
02/08/16 02:19 AM
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Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 43,719 Bend,OR USA
Cab_Burge
I Win
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I Win
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 43,719
Bend,OR USA
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Which motor are you working on? BB, SB, early Hemi or?
Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)
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Re: are distributors indxed the same from the factory?
[Re: Andrewh]
#2008227
02/08/16 10:46 PM
02/08/16 10:46 PM
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Joined: Dec 2014
Posts: 6,229 ohio
ruderunner
master
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master
Joined: Dec 2014
Posts: 6,229
ohio
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Timing from scratch is the best way. A tdc stop is all you need and easy to make with a bolt and old spark plug.
What problem are you trying to solve? Something real or perceived? Are you being proactive or reactivate?
Angry white pureblood male
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Re: are distributors indxed the same from the factory?
[Re: Andrewh]
#2008430
02/09/16 08:24 AM
02/09/16 08:24 AM
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Joined: Dec 2014
Posts: 6,229 ohio
ruderunner
master
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master
Joined: Dec 2014
Posts: 6,229
ohio
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Are you using a crank sensor? If not, realigning the dist slot won't make. A difference. All that really does is move the plug terminals, it doesn't change dist phasing. If you have a crank sensor for timing, then yes realigning the slot can change the phasing, but so does just turning the dist housing in the block.
Got a pic of the dist guts?
Angry white pureblood male
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Re: are distributors indxed the same from the factory?
[Re: Andrewh]
#2008891
02/09/16 11:07 PM
02/09/16 11:07 PM
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Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 36,041 Lincoln Nebraska
RapidRobert
Circle Track
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Circle Track
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 36,041
Lincoln Nebraska
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On my (non computerized) dist top shaft the circumference is 2.004" and the rotor slot width (straight line distance but still pretty close) is .238" so you have alot of room to either cut a new (reclocked) rotor slot or widen/jb weld the existing one to reclock it slightly as needed IF this will solve the problem. The shaft is thick/sturdy and the rotor is light so I dont there'd be a strength issue
live every 24 hour block of time like it's your last day on earth
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Re: are distributors indxed the same from the factory?
[Re: Andrewh]
#2008904
02/09/16 11:23 PM
02/09/16 11:23 PM
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Joined: Dec 2014
Posts: 6,229 ohio
ruderunner
master
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master
Joined: Dec 2014
Posts: 6,229
ohio
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Is that a set screw or a roll pin holding the wheel on?
If a cset screw, good you can adjust the position of the shutter to better align with the rotor.
If its a roll pin, your going to have to drill another hole in the shutter wheel to get things phased.
All your problems are in the distributor, moving the oil pump shaft won't change that.
Angry white pureblood male
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Re: are distributors indxed the same from the factory?
[Re: Andrewh]
#2009097
02/10/16 08:12 AM
02/10/16 08:12 AM
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Joined: Dec 2014
Posts: 6,229 ohio
ruderunner
master
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master
Joined: Dec 2014
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ohio
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Your timing pickup is in the distributor, not on the crank.
You need three things lined up/timed correctly, #1 piston at tdc, rotor pointing at #1 terminal, and pickup at the specified location. Skipping the drive gear one tooth is the same as rotating the distributor. The rotor and pickup are in fixed positions relative to each other. Relocking the shutter on the shaft is the best way to correct this.
Angry white pureblood male
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Re: are distributors indxed the same from the factory?
[Re: Andrewh]
#2009186
02/10/16 01:15 PM
02/10/16 01:15 PM
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Joined: Dec 2014
Posts: 6,229 ohio
ruderunner
master
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master
Joined: Dec 2014
Posts: 6,229
ohio
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Close. The gaps in the shutter are fixed relative to the shaft, so is the rotor. Yes you can make the rotor point to any terminal and that can be done by rotating the hosing or rotating the shaft (which is what happens when the engine runs) BUT the pickup is attached to the distributor housing, so rotating the housing does not change when the signal is generated vs where the rotor is. It DOES change where the signal is compared to the crank. You can keep cranking the dist til you get the timing number you want BUT the rotor won't be in the correct place, it will be probably 45* off from any terminal.
Angry white pureblood male
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Re: are distributors indxed the same from the factory?
[Re: Andrewh]
#2009281
02/10/16 03:34 PM
02/10/16 03:34 PM
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Joined: Dec 2014
Posts: 6,229 ohio
ruderunner
master
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master
Joined: Dec 2014
Posts: 6,229
ohio
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OK went back and reread this thread. First I missed Robert's mention of making a second slot for the dist. Yes that would have the same effect as moving the shutter wheel on the shaft. But I think we lost track of the original problem by going down the phasing rabbit hole. 8t would help if you just had one thread about this just to keep information together rather than trying to figure out which thread has what info.
So what symptoms are you having? Not what you think it means but what is fact.that's not to be mean or rude but to keep things simple.
So far I gather that ms isn't happy with a degree spec. But the question is what does this spec measure?
Angry white pureblood male
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Re: are distributors indxed the same from the factory?
[Re: Andrewh]
#2009568
02/10/16 11:24 PM
02/10/16 11:24 PM
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Joined: Dec 2014
Posts: 6,229 ohio
ruderunner
master
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master
Joined: Dec 2014
Posts: 6,229
ohio
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OK to be clear, if the dist rotor is pointing at #1 terminal, the pickup/sensor was passed 28* prior?
The sensor is attached to the dist housing and the cap is also. I'm assuming both are "keyed" to the housing in order to maintain their positions. The fact that the rotor spins iin relation to those points is irrelevant. It has to spin. This is distributor phasing. There are several ways to change the phasing, as mentioned before we can realign the rotor to the shaft, we can realign the shutter to the shaft, we can realign the cap to the housing or we can realign the sensor to the housing. What I'm trying to get to though is if this is whats needed. So how is this 28* number determined? Is it something the ms system measures during setup? Is it something you program in? Without separate cam and crank sensors this is not something ms can measure itself.
Also, think about this, you have 8 flags on the shutter wheel, one for each cylinder and they should be an equal 45* apart. The same can be said for the cap terminals. Basically you can make any terminal #1 and any flag #1 but they should still give you the same 28* reading unless something is machined wrong.
This leads me to question the statement that this 28* is a measure of the spacing between the pickup and terminal. Is it actually the measure of the difference between TDC and the pickup? That makes ore sense. To answer your last question, it depends on what this 28* is measuring. If it measures the space between pickup and rotor, then relocking the drive gear has no effect. If it measures the degree change between crank and sensor, then yes it may help.
In either case the phasing of the rotor to terminal will need to be checked and adjusted. But we need to get the first problem fixed. Rephasing the rotor is easy.
Angry white pureblood male
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