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440 stopped running, why?? #1938642
10/25/15 11:39 PM
10/25/15 11:39 PM
Joined: Apr 2014
Posts: 173
California
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GTXMEX Offline OP
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GTXMEX  Offline OP
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California
OK gentlemen, really need your help. Here's what's going on.

I have a 1969 GTX, 440, Hemi 4-speed, Dana 60 w/4.10''s, Took my dad for a ride around town, did a couple of rolling burn-outs. 3rd one I revved it to about 3000, dumped the clutch, it started to go good as usual, got mostly through 1st and heard a loud sound like a "PIIINNGGG!" kind of like to pieces of metal hitting. The engine then barely ran, idling very low (maybe 600 rpm's), giving it gas just seemed to make it worse, rolled another 50 yards or so and saw the oil pressure dropping. i turned off the engine at zero pounds of il pressure and pulled over.

Got the car home and drained the oil and pulled the filter. Oil looked fine though slight smell of gasoline. Cut open oil filter and saw no signs of metal failure,

Pulled distributor and oil pump drive shaft and both looked good. Cam gear where it meets oil pump drive shaft looked fine.

Removed oil pump and tore it apart. Some scoring on inside of pump and metal knick spots. But nothing obvious.

Car has electric fuel pump and has good fuel pressure.

Ordered new Mopar HV oil pump and hardened shaft to be on safe side. Thinking to put on new pump, add my 20/50 weight oil, prime the pump, installed new drive pump shaft and distributor and try and turn over the motor.

Any other thoughts???

Please help!

Thanks!

Re: 440 stopped running, why?? [Re: GTXMEX] #1938647
10/25/15 11:45 PM
10/25/15 11:45 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 32,951
Grand Prairie,Texas
stumpy Offline
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Grand Prairie,Texas
Why don't you reinstall the old pump and prime the system with a drill to see if you get oil pressure. You also might want to pull the valve covers to see if you bent a pushrod and unseated a lifter.

Re: 440 stopped running, why?? [Re: GTXMEX] #1938650
10/25/15 11:52 PM
10/25/15 11:52 PM
Joined: Apr 2014
Posts: 173
California
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GTXMEX Offline OP
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California
Already ordered a new pump and to be honest whenI took the old pump all apart didn't pay attention to get it back together right. Pause it's been on the engine since 1994, so feel safe with putting on a new one.

If I pull the valve covers off, would it be obvious identifying a bent push rod? I have original max wedge adjustable rockers as an FYI and crane hi-intensity lifters with a 302 duration crane cam. Engine was built back in 1992 and has about 40,000 miles on it. Forged crank and forged TRW flat top Pistons, stock rods that were shot peened and magnafluxed with arp rod bolts.

Re: 440 stopped running, why?? [Re: GTXMEX] #1938661
10/26/15 12:06 AM
10/26/15 12:06 AM
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 4,951
northwest USA
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NANKET Offline
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As said above. Prime the pump,with a drill,& check oil,pressure, a lifter could have come out. then that valve is closed all the time, wil run like you describe.

Re: 440 stopped running, why?? [Re: GTXMEX] #1938665
10/26/15 12:10 AM
10/26/15 12:10 AM
Joined: Apr 2014
Posts: 173
California
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GTXMEX Offline OP
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California
If I prime the pump and the lifter came out as describe with the oil pressure not rise or be low?

Re: 440 stopped running, why?? [Re: GTXMEX] #1938695
10/26/15 12:56 AM
10/26/15 12:56 AM
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 36,041
Lincoln Nebraska
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RapidRobert Offline
Circle Track
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Lincoln Nebraska
P/V collision. do a compression test & holler back


live every 24 hour block of time like it's your last day on earth
Re: 440 stopped running, why?? [Re: GTXMEX] #1938712
10/26/15 01:17 AM
10/26/15 01:17 AM
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 660
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fury4speed Offline
mopar
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If you shut if off really fast no metal would reach the oil filter yet , as the others mentioned , bent push rod and or broken rocker arm and if you prime the oil pump and it does not have any resistance (make sure your spinning the pump in the right direction) you might have sheared the oil pump drive shaft , good luck.

Re: 440 stopped running, why?? [Re: GTXMEX] #1938747
10/26/15 02:17 AM
10/26/15 02:17 AM
Joined: Apr 2014
Posts: 173
California
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GTXMEX Offline OP
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With a drill do I spin clockwise or counterc clockwise to prime the pump?

The oil pump drive shaft was in good shape.

Re: 440 stopped running, why?? [Re: GTXMEX] #1938751
10/26/15 02:38 AM
10/26/15 02:38 AM
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 36,041
Lincoln Nebraska
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RapidRobert Offline
Circle Track
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Lincoln Nebraska
CCW


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Re: 440 stopped running, why?? [Re: GTXMEX] #1938760
10/26/15 03:13 AM
10/26/15 03:13 AM
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 6,257
gulfport, ms, west mi
rowin4 Offline
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gulfport, ms, west mi
With your new pump installed, prime the pump with the drill motor in reverse, use the proper hex priming rod counter clock wise. Try priming the engine, if you get little or no oil pressure then you pull off the valve covers , check to see if any rockers are broken, check to see if all the push rods are seated properly. It sounds to me that a push rod dropped of and a lifter popped out of the bore causing the loss of oil pressure. Hopefully that is all.


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Re: 440 stopped running, why?? [Re: GTXMEX] #1938802
10/26/15 09:57 AM
10/26/15 09:57 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 75,060
U.S.S.A.
JohnRR Offline
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Originally Posted By GTXMEX
Already ordered a new pump and to be honest whenI took the old pump all apart didn't pay attention to get it back together right. Pause it's been on the engine since 1994, so feel safe with putting on a new one.



Seriously there are there isn't even a hand full of parts, the only thing you could put together backwards is the pressure relief valve and it's spring, the other 3 parts only go one place.


running up my post count some more .
Re: 440 stopped running, why?? [Re: JohnRR] #1938878
10/26/15 12:42 PM
10/26/15 12:42 PM
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 36,041
Lincoln Nebraska
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RapidRobert Offline
Circle Track
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Lincoln Nebraska
when you take apart your new pump to clean/check clearances if the circular outer rotor piece has a stamped mark on one of the flat surfaces I would install it back in the same way (on top or on the bottom). Might be nothing but never hurts to be proactive (helps keeps Mr Murphy away).


live every 24 hour block of time like it's your last day on earth
Re: 440 stopped running, why?? [Re: GTXMEX] #1939012
10/26/15 04:41 PM
10/26/15 04:41 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 24,562
Brookeville, Md
Mr.Yuck Offline
Not enough dumb comments...yet
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Brookeville, Md
pull the valve covers and turn the engine over slowly and watch the rockers. Make sure they all travel the same. If you find one (or more) that look odd pull that rocker shaft and look at the tops of all the valves. If they don't look even you have a problem. Do you know what RPM you were at when it went south?


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Re: 440 stopped running, why?? [Re: GTXMEX] #1939016
10/26/15 04:46 PM
10/26/15 04:46 PM
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 2,060
Pendleton NY
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terzmo Offline
top fuel
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top fuel
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Pendleton NY
if you bent a pushrod or jumped a lifter,the associated rocker will be loose

Re: 440 stopped running, why?? [Re: GTXMEX] #1939042
10/26/15 05:37 PM
10/26/15 05:37 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,894
Harriman NY
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71GTX471 Offline
top fuel
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top fuel
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Harriman NY
Sounds like the dist.drive broke & the ign.timing jumped & the oil psi. dropped,the eng.would not run like your describing with 1 rocker/cyl.down.

Re: 440 stopped running, why?? [Re: 71GTX471] #1939078
10/26/15 06:38 PM
10/26/15 06:38 PM
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 36,041
Lincoln Nebraska
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RapidRobert Offline
Circle Track
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Lincoln Nebraska
I'd pull the plugs (makes for easier turning) & put a 1&1/4 socket/short extension/breaker bar on the crank bolt & turn it CW. You'll know something in 2 minutes


live every 24 hour block of time like it's your last day on earth
Re: 440 stopped running, why?? [Re: GTXMEX] #1939194
10/26/15 09:24 PM
10/26/15 09:24 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,894
Harriman NY
7
71GTX471 Offline
top fuel
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Harriman NY
Sounds like the dist.drive broke & the ign.timing jumped & the oil psi. dropped,the eng.would not run like your describing with 1 rocker/cyl.down.

Re: 440 stopped running, why?? [Re: GTXMEX] #1939216
10/26/15 09:43 PM
10/26/15 09:43 PM
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 4,951
northwest USA
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NANKET Offline
master
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northwest USA
Read the original post, the oil pump drive is not broken. How many broken distributor drives have you seen on a BB Mopar?

Re: 440 stopped running, why?? [Re: GTXMEX] #1939390
10/27/15 12:38 AM
10/27/15 12:38 AM
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Posts: 15,434
Omaha Ne
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TJP Offline
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Omaha Ne
Quote:
heard a loud sound like a "PIIINNGGG!" kind of like to pieces of metal hitting. The engine then barely ran, idling very low (maybe 600 rpm's), giving it gas just seemed to make it worse, rolled another 50 yards or so and saw the oil pressure dropping. i turned off the engine at zero pounds of il pressure and pulled over.


I don't think the oil pump is your issue, just twocents pity

Re: 440 stopped running, why?? [Re: GTXMEX] #1939416
10/27/15 01:14 AM
10/27/15 01:14 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 10,590
Freeport IL USA
poorboy Offline
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Freeport IL USA
I would have started at the valve covers, then the intake. I'm betting you have bent more then one push rod. Hopefully it wasn't the rockers, valves, or the cam. Gene

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