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Engine plate with stock water pump & alternator tech help #1927646
10/07/15 12:09 PM
10/07/15 12:09 PM
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Chicago adjacent
WS68SSC Offline OP
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I have a 1968 Dodge Dart that has a stock 6 cylinder k-frame.
I am installing a 440 & 727.
I am using TTI headers.
The 1968 Dodge Dart has a manual steering box.



Has anyone been able to use a stock water pump housing(passengers side drop outlet).

Has anyone been able to use a stock factory alternator?



If so, please post what you had to do.
Where and how did you mount the alternator?
Did you have to use shims? If so what thickness? Where did you buy them?
Where did you buy the engine plate?

I WILL NOT use a GM alternator! flame

It is frustrating because everyone keeps telling me how "cheap" an engine plate will be. An engine plate is cheap until you start looking at the prices of the special alternators, special alternator brackets, and electric water pumps.

Thanks!



Re: Engine plate with stock water pump & alternator tech help [Re: WS68SSC] #1927654
10/07/15 12:17 PM
10/07/15 12:17 PM
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Marion, South Carolina [><]
an8sec70cuda Offline
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Is this a street car or drag car?
If drag only, you can use a stock water pump setup and just use the cheap Moroso water pump drive kit to turn the factory water pump.

If street driven, take your water pump housing and have the back of it (the block mounting surface) milled down the thickness of your motorplate. Or you can use a crank pulley spacer (the thickness of the plate) to push the pulley out so it lines up w/ the water pump pulley.
There are a lot of different factory pulleys out there with different offsets.

I'm no help on the factory alternator...I went w/ a low mount GM alternator setup.


CHIP
'70 hemicuda, 575" Hemi, 727, Dana 60
'69 road runner, 440-6, 18 spline 4 speed, Dana 60
'71 Demon, 340, low gear 904, 8.75
'73 Chrysler New Yorker, 440, 727, 8.75
'90 Chevy 454SS Silverado, 476" BBC, TH400, 14 bolt
'06 GMC 2500HD LBZ Duramax
Re: Engine plate with stock water pump & alternator tech help [Re: WS68SSC] #1927658
10/07/15 12:18 PM
10/07/15 12:18 PM
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JohnRR Offline
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Just mill the thickness of the motor plate off the block side of the waterpump housing ... done.


running up my post count some more .
Re: Engine plate with stock water pump & alternator tech help [Re: JohnRR] #1927666
10/07/15 12:29 PM
10/07/15 12:29 PM
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Chicago adjacent
WS68SSC Offline OP
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.....

Last edited by Billy; 10/07/15 12:29 PM.
Re: Engine plate with stock water pump & alternator tech help [Re: JohnRR] #1927668
10/07/15 12:30 PM
10/07/15 12:30 PM
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Chicago adjacent
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Originally Posted By JohnRR
Just mill the thickness of the motor plate off the block side of the waterpump housing ... done.


I just had the motor rebuilt. Its complete. Hasn't even been fired.

I am not sure where I would even go to have this done.

Re: Engine plate with stock water pump & alternator tech help [Re: WS68SSC] #1927689
10/07/15 01:02 PM
10/07/15 01:02 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 13,360
Marion, South Carolina [><]
an8sec70cuda Offline
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Just pull the water pump housing off the motor and take it to a machine shop. They can mill the back side of it to compensate for the thickness of the plate.

Make sure you know what plate you're gonna use beforehand. The AR engineering plates are .375" thick, The normal Comp Eng. plates are only .250" thick.

Last edited by an8sec70cuda; 10/07/15 01:03 PM.

CHIP
'70 hemicuda, 575" Hemi, 727, Dana 60
'69 road runner, 440-6, 18 spline 4 speed, Dana 60
'71 Demon, 340, low gear 904, 8.75
'73 Chrysler New Yorker, 440, 727, 8.75
'90 Chevy 454SS Silverado, 476" BBC, TH400, 14 bolt
'06 GMC 2500HD LBZ Duramax
Re: Engine plate with stock water pump & alternator tech help [Re: WS68SSC] #1927708
10/07/15 01:47 PM
10/07/15 01:47 PM
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Akron, Ohio
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Use the AR-Engineering plate, it's nice. I use it along with a stock type water pump housing, I haven't had it milled because my pulleys line up good. But I only have 2.75 inches between the water pump snout and my radiator, so I use a cheap flex fan along with a shroud.
I use a Toyota Denso alternator and will never go back to a mopar setup, it's small, mounted low, and charges at 14 volts at all times, best setup I've ever owned. I'm sure alot of guys have the mopar setups ironed out but I always had problems with them.


1970 Challenger, all aluminum 528 Hemi, HDK suspension, Tremec 5 speed manual
Re: Engine plate with stock water pump & alternator tech help [Re: WS68SSC] #1927712
10/07/15 01:51 PM
10/07/15 01:51 PM
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Akron, Ohio
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1970 Challenger, all aluminum 528 Hemi, HDK suspension, Tremec 5 speed manual
Re: Engine plate with stock water pump & alternator tech help [Re: WS68SSC] #1927717
10/07/15 02:05 PM
10/07/15 02:05 PM
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Monte_Smith Offline
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It doesn't have to be a GM alternator, although I don't see why that's an issue. It just needs to be an internally regulated one wire alternator, which as stated, can come from many sources. They are small, light, easy to mount and flat work better

Re: Engine plate with stock water pump & alternator tech help [Re: WS68SSC] #1927727
10/07/15 02:19 PM
10/07/15 02:19 PM
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You can use a stock water pump if you use a pulley spacer. Or machine down the water pump housing to use a stock pulley arrangement. Most people use an electric water pump of some sort when running a motor plate.

There is no simple way to use a stock Mopar alternator with a motor plate. The Mopar alternator is big, heavy and obsolete so most people building race cars get rid of them and use a modern alternator.

Re: Engine plate with stock water pump & alternator tech help [Re: Monte_Smith] #1927751
10/07/15 02:59 PM
10/07/15 02:59 PM
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Chicago adjacent
WS68SSC Offline OP
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Originally Posted By Monte_Smith
It doesn't have to be a GM alternator, although I don't see why that's an issue. It just needs to be an internally regulated one wire alternator, which as stated, can come from many sources. They are small, light, easy to mount and flat work better


DODGE OR DIE BABY! LOL

Re: Engine plate with stock water pump & alternator tech help [Re: WS68SSC] #1927782
10/07/15 03:58 PM
10/07/15 03:58 PM
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Addison,IL
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DODGE OR DIE BABY! LOL [/quote]

Ya, I thought the same thing at the beginning until I realized that the mopar alternator doesn't charge on the idle, and on a race car there's a lot of idleing. Do yourself a favor and buy a East Coast 1 wire alternator.

Re: Engine plate with stock water pump & alternator tech help [Re: WS68SSC] #1927858
10/07/15 06:08 PM
10/07/15 06:08 PM
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WS68SSC Offline OP
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As long as it does not resemble a GM alternator I would entertain it.

Re: Engine plate with stock water pump & alternator tech help [Re: WS68SSC] #1927964
10/07/15 08:52 PM
10/07/15 08:52 PM
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Ft. Wayne, IN.
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I used a Denso alternator. Drilled a hole for the top bolt of the alt on the bottom of the motor plate and fabbed up my own bracket for the bottom hole. I just made spacers to line it up with... Simple, easy and cheap!!


Scott

69 Satellite, 3650lb street car... Dunnuck Racing pump gas 440. Best of 10:60@127...
Re: Engine plate with stock water pump & alternator tech help [Re: JohnRR] #1927974
10/07/15 09:10 PM
10/07/15 09:10 PM
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Rio Linda, CA
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Originally Posted By JohnRR
Just mill the thickness of the motor plate off the block side of the waterpump housing ... done.


That's what I do, mill the rear of the housing .400" when using a 3/8" motor plate (extra .025" for the second gasket).


The INTERNET, the MISinformation superhighway
Re: Engine plate with stock water pump & alternator tech help [Re: WS68SSC] #1927997
10/07/15 09:58 PM
10/07/15 09:58 PM
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North Alabama
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Monte_Smith Offline
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Originally Posted By Billy
As long as it does not resemble a GM alternator I would entertain it.
What exactly does a GM alternator LOOK like? They are made by Delco-Remy, who also sells alternators to GM, Ford, Chrysler and about every other manufacturer, same as Denso and others. You do realize that likely the steering gearbox and pump on your later model Chrysler product is made by Saginaw.........a GM owned company. Oh noooooooooo............LOL!!!!

Re: Engine plate with stock water pump & alternator tech help [Re: WS68SSC] #1928100
10/08/15 12:26 AM
10/08/15 12:26 AM
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Tulsa OK
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I can't add much to the discussion other than saying a GM alternator(CS130) was one of the best things I have ever done to my car.


68 Barracuda Formula S 340
Re: Engine plate with stock water pump & alternator tech help [Re: Monte_Smith] #1928154
10/08/15 02:32 AM
10/08/15 02:32 AM
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Chicago adjacent
WS68SSC Offline OP
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Originally Posted By Monte_Smith
Originally Posted By Billy
As long as it does not resemble a GM alternator I would entertain it.
What exactly does a GM alternator LOOK like? They are made by Delco-Remy, who also sells alternators to GM, Ford, Chrysler and about every other manufacturer, same as Denso and others. You do realize that likely the steering gearbox and pump on your later model Chrysler product is made by Saginaw.........a GM owned company. Oh noooooooooo............LOL!!!!



Correct..."late model Chrysler product". Not on my Mopar muscle car!!!

I don't want anything even GM related even near my car lol.

Re: Engine plate with stock water pump & alternator tech help [Re: WS68SSC] #1928155
10/08/15 02:33 AM
10/08/15 02:33 AM
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WS68SSC Offline OP
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I bought a set of used CPPA engine mounts today from a member that are believed to be made for my headers.

Hopefully this will solve the problem!

I will post pictures this weekend.

Again thanks guys for the help!

Re: Engine plate with stock water pump & alternator tech help [Re: WS68SSC] #1928235
10/08/15 10:27 AM
10/08/15 10:27 AM
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Posts: 13,360
Marion, South Carolina [><]
an8sec70cuda Offline
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That "GM product" alternator would be the best thing you could do to your mopar for a charging system.


CHIP
'70 hemicuda, 575" Hemi, 727, Dana 60
'69 road runner, 440-6, 18 spline 4 speed, Dana 60
'71 Demon, 340, low gear 904, 8.75
'73 Chrysler New Yorker, 440, 727, 8.75
'90 Chevy 454SS Silverado, 476" BBC, TH400, 14 bolt
'06 GMC 2500HD LBZ Duramax
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