A 'Quench' Question for the Engine Builders Here. - Moparts Forums

Register Log In Moparts Forums Unlawfl's Race & Engine Tech A 'Quench' Question for the Engine Builders Here.

Print Thread

Page 1 of 2

1

2

A 'Quench' Question for the Engine Builders Here. #189703 01/10/09 05:54 PM 01/10/09 05:54 PM
Joined: Feb 2004 Posts: 3,076 Renton, Wa. C Classof70Chally OP super gas
Classof70Chally OP super gas C Joined: Feb 2004 Posts: 3,076 Renton, Wa.	I'm currently building a 440 street motor for my sig car and need opinions on my quench distance. I'm using aluminum heads with a true static CR of 10.0 to 1. I am having the block decked to where the pistons are .005 below deck. Figuring a compressed gasket thickness of .039 this would give me a 'quench' distance of .044 . The head gaskets I was planning on using were the ROL Hi-Temps as they have a 4.50 diameter and that is about the minimum I need for my 440 source head chambers. The problem is the ROL's are spec'd at .045 compressed thickness which would give me a quench distance of .050 . Is this going to be a problem with 92 oct pump gas? Thanks

Re: A 'Quench' Question for the Engine Builders Here. [Re: Classof70Chally] #189704 01/10/09 05:58 PM 01/10/09 05:58 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 6,266 Renton Washington T Triple Threat master
Triple Threat master T Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 6,266 Renton Washington	At only 10:1 with aluminum Stealths, you shouldn't have any issues. -Dustin 67 Dart, 9 second, 392" G3 Hemi 68 Barracuda 340 F/SA

Re: A 'Quench' Question for the Engine Builders Here. [Re: Triple Threat] #189705 01/10/09 06:11 PM 01/10/09 06:11 PM
Joined: Sep 2006 Posts: 685 SW Ohio AAR-B4 mopar
AAR-B4 mopar Joined: Sep 2006 Posts: 685 SW Ohio	I have used FelPro 1009 on Stealth heads (4.350 bore) with no issues. In fact re-used them 2X.

Re: A 'Quench' Question for the Engine Builders Here. [Re: AAR-B4] #189706 01/10/09 06:24 PM 01/10/09 06:24 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 2,152 Fancy Farm Ky W wyoming top fuel
wyoming top fuel W Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 2,152 Fancy Farm Ky	You'll be fine with those

Re: A 'Quench' Question for the Engine Builders Here. [Re: wyoming] #189707 01/10/09 06:28 PM 01/10/09 06:28 PM
Joined: Jan 2005 Posts: 3,635 Oakland, MI D dizuster master
dizuster master D Joined: Jan 2005 Posts: 3,635 Oakland, MI	Generally the accepted minimum useful quench is .050", so you should be ok.

Re: A 'Quench' Question for the Engine Builders Here. [Re: Classof70Chally] #189708 01/10/09 06:29 PM 01/10/09 06:29 PM
Joined: Oct 2007 Posts: 288 Birmingham, England M Mick70RR enthusiast
Mick70RR enthusiast M Joined: Oct 2007 Posts: 288 Birmingham, England	My pistons are .015" below deck so I used .027" Cometic head gaskets, that gives me .042" quench. A little overhang won't hurt with this type of gasket and they are available in a number of compressed thicknesses, and diameter. 1970 Road Runner 505 cid MCH CNC ported Stealth heads MP 528 camshaft 4 speed GV overdrive 11.98 @ 117 on street treads

Re: A 'Quench' Question for the Engine Builders Here. [Re: dizuster] #189709 01/10/09 06:32 PM 01/10/09 06:32 PM
Joined: Jan 2004 Posts: 27,347 Today? Who Knows? 1_WILD_RT Management Trainee
1_WILD_RT Management Trainee Joined: Jan 2004 Posts: 27,347 Today? Who Knows?	Quote: Generally the accepted minimum useful quench is .050", so you should be ok. It's alot closer to max than it is to minimum... Run the Felpro 1009.. If your concerned hold it up to your head if it doesn't overhang the chamber (it won't )run it..

Re: A 'Quench' Question for the Engine Builders Here. [Re: 1_WILD_RT] #189710 01/10/09 08:55 PM 01/10/09 08:55 PM
Joined: Feb 2004 Posts: 3,076 Renton, Wa. C Classof70Chally OP super gas
Classof70Chally OP super gas C Joined: Feb 2004 Posts: 3,076 Renton, Wa.	Thanks for the replys so far. Is the FelPro 1009 at 4.350 the largest diameter .039 thickness gasket available without going 'exotic' ie custom? Also, my block hasn't been decked yet so I could go .000 but i'm not sure that's the way to go. Last edited by Classof70Chally; 01/10/09 08:56 PM.

Re: A 'Quench' Question for the Engine Builders Here. [Re: Classof70Chally] #189711 01/10/09 08:59 PM 01/10/09 08:59 PM
Joined: Sep 2006 Posts: 685 SW Ohio AAR-B4 mopar
AAR-B4 mopar Joined: Sep 2006 Posts: 685 SW Ohio	The 1009 has a 4.410 dia. I mentioned the cylinder bore because of the overhang issue.

Re: A 'Quench' Question for the Engine Builders Here. [Re: Classof70Chally] #189712 01/10/09 09:00 PM 01/10/09 09:00 PM
Joined: Jan 2004 Posts: 27,347 Today? Who Knows? 1_WILD_RT Management Trainee
1_WILD_RT Management Trainee Joined: Jan 2004 Posts: 27,347 Today? Who Knows?	Block isn't decked yet..Have you assembled/mocked up the short block to verify deck height? Cause typically the piston that should be .005 in the hole actually measures .015-.025 in the hole...

Re: A 'Quench' Question for the Engine Builders Here. [Re: Classof70Chally] #189713 01/10/09 09:23 PM 01/10/09 09:23 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 6,591 Canton, Ohio S Sport440 master
Sport440 master S Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 6,591 Canton, Ohio	The Felpro 8519 PTI has a bore size of about 4.52 @ a .038 or so compressed thickness. It should be More then plenty for your 10.1 comp. They used to be cheap, dont know what they are now. They used to come standard in the engine tear down gasket kits from MP. Still available from Summit pt# DCC3690175 for $65.95 This kit gives you every gasket that you could need, including the intake pan gasket. The head gasket themselves can be bought at Autozone or Advanced auto. mike

Re: A 'Quench' Question for the Engine Builders Here. [Re: Sport440] #189714 01/10/09 09:37 PM 01/10/09 09:37 PM
Joined: Feb 2003 Posts: 21,318 Manitoba, Canada DaytonaTurbo Too Many Posts
DaytonaTurbo Too Many Posts Joined: Feb 2003 Posts: 21,318 Manitoba, Canada	If the block has not yet been decked, why would you tell them to deck it to .005 below? If anything I'd tell them to go to .005 above with the knowledge that I'd be lucky if the final result didn't turn out to be a zero deck or below.

Re: A 'Quench' Question for the Engine Builders Here. [Re: DaytonaTurbo] #189715 01/10/09 09:46 PM 01/10/09 09:46 PM
Joined: Feb 2004 Posts: 3,076 Renton, Wa. C Classof70Chally OP super gas
Classof70Chally OP super gas C Joined: Feb 2004 Posts: 3,076 Renton, Wa.	Well, when I measured my piston to deck height the 'four corners' averaged .018 to .020 below deck. I've read that .035 or so is the minimum piston to head clearance. I've also read that around .040 to .045 is the ideal quench distance. I'm not a math major but where I went to school .005 deck clearnce + .039 gasket thickness = .044 piston to deck/quench distance. This is why I'm soliciting input.

Re: A 'Quench' Question for the Engine Builders Here. [Re: Classof70Chally] #189716 01/10/09 10:06 PM 01/10/09 10:06 PM
Joined: Jan 2005 Posts: 1,260 Las Vegas NV moparmanjames pro stock
moparmanjames pro stock Joined: Jan 2005 Posts: 1,260 Las Vegas NV	Just have it zero decked and use the fel-pro gasket, you are already taking .015 off, whats another .005? Just don't forget you might have to mill the intake as well.

Re: A 'Quench' Question for the Engine Builders Here. [Re: moparmanjames] #189717 01/10/09 11:17 PM 01/10/09 11:17 PM
Joined: Jan 2004 Posts: 27,347 Today? Who Knows? 1_WILD_RT Management Trainee
1_WILD_RT Management Trainee Joined: Jan 2004 Posts: 27,347 Today? Who Knows?	Quote: Just have it zero decked and use the fel-pro gasket, you are already taking .015 off, whats another .005? Just don't forget you might have to mill the intake as well. Well IMO heres why you won't have to cut the intake...The original steel shim head gasket is .021 the Felpro is .039 thats .018 difference if you cut .015-.020 off the deck in reality the heads are in the same place they started... BTW lots of guys say there are definate gains keeping the quench under .040 but definately shoot for less than .050 cause if you shoot for .050 & a few #s are not quite what they should be...Like it or not it happens...Then you'll have no effective quench..

Re: A 'Quench' Question for the Engine Builders Here. [Re: 1_WILD_RT] #189718 01/10/09 11:40 PM 01/10/09 11:40 PM
Joined: Jan 2005 Posts: 1,260 Las Vegas NV moparmanjames pro stock
moparmanjames pro stock Joined: Jan 2005 Posts: 1,260 Las Vegas NV	Quote: Quote: Just have it zero decked and use the fel-pro gasket, you are already taking .015 off, whats another .005? Just don't forget you might have to mill the intake as well. Well IMO heres why you won't have to cut the intake...The original steel shim head gasket is .021 the Felpro is .039 thats .018 difference if you cut .015-.020 off the deck in reality the heads are in the same place they started... BTW lots of guys say there are definate gains keeping the quench under .040 but definately shoot for less than .050 cause if you shoot for .050 & a few #s are not quite what they should be...Like it or not it happens...Then you'll have no effective quench.. Good point with the head gaskets and in theory you are right on but in general with all the aftermarket heads and intakes, more often than not you end up with extra machining required. As far as the quench, also keep in mind that on the other end of the spectrum .035 is the absolute minimum for a street car. So be careful when erring on the close side.

Re: A 'Quench' Question for the Engine Builders Here. [Re: moparmanjames] #189719 01/11/09 12:28 AM 01/11/09 12:28 AM
Joined: Feb 2007 Posts: 6,295 U.S. M moparniac master
moparniac master M Joined: Feb 2007 Posts: 6,295 U.S.	didnt the chyrsler manual say no closer than .060 Mopar Performance

Re: A 'Quench' Question for the Engine Builders Here. [Re: moparniac] #189720 01/11/09 12:39 AM 01/11/09 12:39 AM
Joined: Jan 2004 Posts: 27,347 Today? Who Knows? 1_WILD_RT Management Trainee
1_WILD_RT Management Trainee Joined: Jan 2004 Posts: 27,347 Today? Who Knows?	You believe everything you read??? Even if you don't..Read this.. http://racingsecrets.com/article_racing-10.html

Re: A 'Quench' Question for the Engine Builders Here. [Re: moparniac] #189721 01/11/09 10:58 AM 01/11/09 10:58 AM
Joined: Jan 2005 Posts: 3,635 Oakland, MI D dizuster master
dizuster master D Joined: Jan 2005 Posts: 3,635 Oakland, MI	Quote: didnt the chyrsler manual say no closer than .060 Maybe in the day's of sloppy pistons, but not the way stuff is tightly controlled today. I just put a 416" stroker motor together, and it was between .030"~.035" with no problems...

Re: A 'Quench' Question for the Engine Builders Here. [Re: 1_WILD_RT] #189722 01/11/09 02:10 PM 01/11/09 02:10 PM
Joined: Feb 2004 Posts: 3,076 Renton, Wa. C Classof70Chally OP super gas
Classof70Chally OP super gas C Joined: Feb 2004 Posts: 3,076 Renton, Wa.	Missed this one on my first read thru. Yes, I mocked up the short block using the same piston and rod at each of the four corner holes per my machinists instructions. The measurements were very consistent with the piston between .018 and .020 below deck. It sounds like I need to have .020 taken off the decks for something closer to 'zero' deck height. That way if I run the FelPro (.039) or the ROL (.045) I'm covered. I was trying not to get too close to the minimum .035 piston to head clearance but with steel rods and a max rpm limit of 5,800 to 6,000 maybe I'll be OK ?

Page 1 of 2

1

2

Moderated by Al_Alguire, Hotwheelsjr, moparts, not_a_charger, RangerDan440, tboomer

Hop To

Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.1