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Re: A engine oil pumps
[Re: dizuster]
#189350
01/10/09 03:14 PM
01/10/09 03:14 PM
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Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 6,906
IL, Aurora
ademon
master
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master
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 6,906
IL, Aurora
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My stock pump gives me 30 at idle and 65 hot, i have a HV but it wouldn't fit under the stock style molidon pan.
Last edited by ademon; 01/10/09 03:17 PM.
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Re: A engine oil pumps
[Re: ademon]
#189351
01/10/09 03:26 PM
01/10/09 03:26 PM
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Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 15,489
the boonies
aarcuda
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 15,489
the boonies
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Quote:
My stock pump gives me 30 at idle and 65 hot, i have a HV but it wouldn't fit under the stock style molidon pan.
heck, unless you get the right pump, it wont fit under their 8qt pan either.
You need to get the pump that used philips head screws that are countersunk in the cover and then grind down and edge slightly or it WILL hit the pan.
The pump that uses the hex head screws doesnt fit worth a damn and the screw heads will punch a hole in the pan. damhik
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Re: A engine oil pumps
[Re: aarcuda]
#189352
01/10/09 04:04 PM
01/10/09 04:04 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 11,711
Portage,michigan
B3422W5
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 11,711
Portage,michigan
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A place called precision takes the stock melling pump and blueprints it, and makes some minor mods to it. I have one and think its a nice piece. They are well under 100 bucks if i remember right http://www.precisionoilpumps.com/
69 Dart GTS A4 Silver All steel, flat factory hood, 3360race weight
418 BPE factory replacement headed stroker, 565 lift solid cam
Best so far, 10.40 @127 1/4
1.41 best 60 foot
6.60 at 103.90 1/8
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Re: A engine oil pumps
[Re: aarcuda]
#189353
01/10/09 04:10 PM
01/10/09 04:10 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 8,547
State College, PA
RyanJ
moparts member
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moparts member
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 8,547
State College, PA
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Quote:
Quote:
My stock pump gives me 30 at idle and 65 hot, i have a HV but it wouldn't fit under the stock style molidon pan.
heck, unless you get the right pump, it wont fit under their 8qt pan either.
You need to get the pump that used philips head screws that are countersunk in the cover and then grind down and edge slightly or it WILL hit the pan.
The pump that uses the hex head screws doesnt fit worth a damn and the screw heads will punch a hole in the pan. damhik
That's odd.... I build about 25 SB's a year & anything that has an internal pump uses the M72HV with the newer style 7/16" wrenching hex head bolts.... I've never had one hit the pan ever. Granted I could'nt tell you the last time I used a stock pan was though..... But I just did this 408 with the Milodon "Low Profile" pan & even it cleared....that was second one of those I've used.... we do bunch of Milodon 8 QT pans & Moroso 8 QT pans each year also.
I take the pumps apart & drill the outlet out to 1/2" & do a little hand radiusing inside it for little more volume & I usually modify oil pickup tubes as well.
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Re: A engine oil pumps
[Re: RyanJ]
#189356
01/10/09 04:53 PM
01/10/09 04:53 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,756
London, England
Gavin
top fuel
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top fuel
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,756
London, England
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Quote:
I take the pumps apart & drill the outlet out to 1/2" & do a little hand radiusing inside it for little more volume & I usually modify oil pickup tubes as well.
Ryan, how do you mod the pickup tube? Do you still feed the oil into the 'standard' pump inlet or do you use bottom feed pickups?
I'd like to use a 1/2" pickup but due to my center sump I don't think I'll have clearance for a bottom feed pickup - and I thought 'conventional' wisdom was that the M72HV does not have enough meat to bore out the standard pickup inlet point to 1/2".
Thanks!
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Re: A engine oil pumps
[Re: Gavin]
#189358
01/10/09 05:54 PM
01/10/09 05:54 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 8,547
State College, PA
RyanJ
moparts member
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moparts member
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 8,547
State College, PA
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Gavin, I leave the pump & end of pickup at 3/8" NPT but drill out the end of the pickups to .500" where they are welded to a more solid chunk of threaded round stock to thread into the pump. Takes a whole 30 seconds in the vice with a .500" drill bit do do something Milodon & Moroso should be doing.... aar: it has to be the pans you're using (factory style looks like), I do alot of both 360 & 340 factory blocks a year. It has nothing to do with the block or caps.... I've built every block in existence for the most part, X, R, R1, R1A, R2, R3, 340, 360, TA... never had one hit. All I use is the M72HV.... dunno, maybe you just have really bad luck. 
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Re: A engine oil pumps
[Re: dizuster]
#189362
01/10/09 07:02 PM
01/10/09 07:02 PM
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Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 4,330
Lynchburg, VA
Leon441
master
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master
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 4,330
Lynchburg, VA
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aarcuda are you inverting pictures or something. The reason I ask your picture of the pump shows it's location on the rear drivers side of the engine. Which is correct. Then you show a pick of your pan with marks all around the rear corner passengers side of the engine. You either inverted your picture or was clearancing for something else.
I ran these pumps for years without any clearancing on many different pans. Now when I ran a 4.125 stroke with alluminum rods I had to space the pump off the cap with a .125" spacer. Then I simply put the pan on with no gasket. Taped on the pan to make clearance so the pan would fit. Then simply reinstall with gaskets. No problem.
Leon
Career best 8.02 @ 169 at 3050# and 10" tires small block power.
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Re: A engine oil pumps
[Re: justinp61]
#189363
01/10/09 07:03 PM
01/10/09 07:03 PM
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Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 15,489
the boonies
aarcuda
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 15,489
the boonies
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Quote:
I have Milodon pans on my 340 and one for my 408, both motors have high volume pumps. I've had to work on both pans and pumps to get enough clearence. I busted a 8 quart moroso pan on my 340, the 7/16 hex heads hit. When I fitted the Moroso I used phillips bolts on the two rear bolts and still had to turn them down. I changed the hex bolts on the pump for my 408 also. 
Thank you 
Ryan had me thinking i was nuts. I punched out a pan 8 years ago with the bolt heads. I was pissed because I knew they were touching the pan when I put it on but since Ive NEVER heard that there was a clearane issue, I figured I was making too much of it. i even came up with the theory that the bolt heads would dent the oil pan based and MAKE ther own room.
So I bolted it and tightened up the blt. then PANG! the head pushed thru.
I brazed it up and used an oil pump like this on.
I actually did try a regular hv melling (with the bolts) on this motor too that I built this summer. I felt it hit the pan and STOPPED. I knew I had to get another pump with the philips screws.
Amazingly and thankfully, my buddy hemityme had an old chrysler NOS one that he gave me...
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Re: A engine oil pumps
[Re: RyanJ]
#189364
01/10/09 07:14 PM
01/10/09 07:14 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,756
London, England
Gavin
top fuel
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top fuel
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,756
London, England
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Quote:
Gavin, I leave the pump & end of pickup at 3/8" NPT but drill out the end of the pickups to .500" where they are welded to a more solid chunk of threaded round stock to thread into the pump. Takes a whole 30 seconds in the vice with a .500" drill bit do do something Milodon & Moroso should be doing....
Sorry Ryan, bear with me, I must be a bit slow today  .....you don't touch the 3/8" hole in the pump, but you mention both leaving the end of pickup at 3/8 and also drilling out the end of the pickup to 1/2, and welding the new stock which threads to the (3/8) pump. Could you run that past me again.........thanks!
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Re: A engine oil pumps
[Re: Leon441]
#189365
01/10/09 07:14 PM
01/10/09 07:14 PM
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Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 15,489
the boonies
aarcuda
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 15,489
the boonies
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Quote:
aarcuda are you inverting pictures or something. The reason I ask your picture of the pump shows it's location on the rear drivers side of the engine. Which is correct. Then you show a pick of your pan with marks all around the rear corner passengers side of the engine. You either inverted your picture or was clearancing for something else.
I ran these pumps for years without any clearancing on many different pans. Now when I ran a 4.125 stroke with alluminum rods I had to space the pump off the cap with a .125" spacer. Then I simply put the pan on with no gasket. Taped on the pan to make clearance so the pan would fit. Then simply reinstall with gaskets. No problem.
Leon
no, its right. that the inside of the pan. turn it upside down and its rig.
i cant figure out why some people have no problems. i know what happened to me- twice
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Re: A engine oil pumps
[Re: Gavin]
#189372
01/10/09 07:36 PM
01/10/09 07:36 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 8,547
State College, PA
RyanJ
moparts member
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moparts member
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 8,547
State College, PA
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Quote:
Quote:
Gavin, I leave the pump & end of pickup at 3/8" NPT but drill out the end of the pickups to .500" where they are welded to a more solid chunk of threaded round stock to thread into the pump. Takes a whole 30 seconds in the vice with a .500" drill bit do do something Milodon & Moroso should be doing....
Sorry Ryan, bear with me, I must be a bit slow today .....you don't touch the 3/8" hole in the pump, but you mention both leaving the end of pickup at 3/8 and also drilling out the end of the pickup to 1/2, and welding the new stock which threads to the (3/8) pump. Could you run that past me again.........thanks!
You're making it way too complicated..... take the Milodon or Moroso pickup & just run a .500" drill into the end of it where it threads into the pump. They're like .420" from moroso/milodon. That's it.... there's no wleding or tapping etc. You don't need 1/2" NPT inlet into your pump or pickup. A 3/8" NPT hole is larger than .500".....
I dunno why you guys are having pump/pan issues, obviously something is different between what you're using & what I'm using. Without having ever seen one in my hands that hit I can't really say what the deal is. All I can tell you is I've never had one hit which is odd seeing as how multiple people on here have had clearance issues, dunno.
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Re: A engine oil pumps
[Re: Neil]
#189373
01/10/09 07:36 PM
01/10/09 07:36 PM
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Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 11,684
W. Kentucky
justinp61
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 11,684
W. Kentucky
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Maybe there are manfacturing differences . This pan fit like profanity reference deleted, the bolt holes had to be elongated on both sides, it's like the pan is out of square  . If I ever buils another I'll use someone elses pan for sure.
Last edited by ZIPPY; 01/11/09 10:06 AM.
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Re: A engine oil pumps
[Re: aarcuda]
#189375
01/10/09 10:02 PM
01/10/09 10:02 PM
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Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 189
long island new york
kingdust
member
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member
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 189
long island new york
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i never had oil pump to pan clearance issues, ive built more than a few 340s ( not as much as ryan)but i did have a milodon pan that the bolt holes were'nt even close to lining up! sent it back to jegs and they sent me another one and that one worked. nothings ever perfect.
LIFE IS A LESSON,YOU LEARN IT WHEN YOUR THROUGH!
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Re: A engine oil pumps
[Re: justinp61]
#189382
01/11/09 12:07 PM
01/11/09 12:07 PM
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Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 660
San Diego
formula S
mopar
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mopar
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 660
San Diego
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Quote:
Pump #2.
I built a 360 over the summer and used a m72hv, and a stock pan that I got from mancini. No problems with fit, with that said the pump cover was cast differently, the screw pads on the pump cover were recessed. As far as oil pump and pickup modification on race engines, I disassemble the pump, drill the pickup out to 3/4", port and blend both suction and discharge sides of the pump. Then I use 3/4" O/D x.090 tubing to fab a pickup, then slide the pickup into the pump at least an inch, and braze it together this work really well. 
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Re: A engine oil pumps
[Re: formula S]
#189384
01/11/09 04:16 PM
01/11/09 04:16 PM
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Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 3,333
MARYLAND
69Cuda340S
master
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master
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 3,333
MARYLAND
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Quote:
the pump cover was cast differently, the screw pads on the pump cover were recessed.
Here is what the top of my Mellings HV pump looks like. Bought last summer:
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Re: A engine oil pumps
[Re: 69Cuda340S]
#189385
01/11/09 04:47 PM
01/11/09 04:47 PM
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Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 15,489
the boonies
aarcuda
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 15,489
the boonies
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Quote:
Quote:
the pump cover was cast differently, the screw pads on the pump cover were recessed.
Here is what the top of my Mellings HV pump looks like. Bought last summer:
ahaa!! Those bolts are countersunk A LOT. thats why some people arent having troubles with their (I bet).
The oil pump that caused me problems had a completely flat plate and that caused the hex heads to sit lower in the motor. I bet i wouldnt have had much (if any) problem with the pump in that picture. the one i had most trouble with look like :
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