Hey guys

I had my intake manifold off of my 383 to replace the intake valley pan and gaskets and I somehow ended up dropping a tiny little lock washer (like for a #8 machine screw) in the valley and it fell past the camshaft and disappeared.

I thought of draining the oil pan and hoping that it would come out in that, but I'm sure that the windage tray would keep the washer out of the pan until the engine had been run.

Any thoughts on just leaving it in there? Its so tiny that I cant imagine it doing any harm... what harm do you think it could do in there? Can you tell that I just don't want to drop the pan?

It is more than likely sitting on the windage tray , you could pull the front of the motor off and the timing cover and fish it out that way .

It won't make it past the pickup screen but there is no guarantee the oil will wash it to the bottom of the pan.

Might try pouring gas or kerosene into the valley to try and wash it down into the sump...then fish it out w/ a magnet.

wow! that's a [censored]! since it fell past the cam, it had to fall onto the crank assembly, and then it's a matter of if it's sitting there or has fallen onto the windage tray. hard to imagine that there is anywhere it can get to except to fall off. trying to think of some position of the rods and crank that it could get caught and do some damage.

unlikely though it seems, it could potentially destroy the engine. maybe 1 in a million, but it is there.

for me, bummer as it is, there is no way i would run the engine with that in there. pull the pan. maybe try cranking the engine by hand, and priming the oil pump. maybe cranking it will make sure it drops onto the windage tray, (and you will feel if it somehow does get in-between something and start to lock up), and through priming the oil flow will bring it down into the pan, and then drain the pan.

although, it will sink to the bottom of the pan, and the oil flowing out may not have enough force to move it along, so it may sit there. try to get in with a magnet and move it all around the pan.

to each his own, but again, there is no way i would run that...

Thanks for the advice guys... as of right now, I am planning to pull the pan & tray off tonight. I hope that my pan gaskets can be reused.

Now... if I still cant find the washer after dis-assembly, I will button it up and pretend that the whole thing never happened.

pseronally, i would give it at least a quick try to get it down into the pan and drain out with the oil. you have to drain the oil anyway, a little time to give it a try could save you removing the pan.

may be a good idea, at the very least, to rotate the engine by hand, as the washer may be sitting on the crank/rods.

Before you start pulling stuff apart, drain the oil with the car at as high an angle as you can safely, if it fell all the way into the sump, it may wash out with the oil.

If not, fish one of those flexible magnets around the bottom of the pan through the drain hole and see if you get lucky.

We'll keep our fingers crossed for you....

Joe

At least you didn't drop it down a cylinder.

What if you drain the oil and just keep pouring it down the valley area where it fell? I would do the tilt thing as someone else mentioned too. Maybe hot oil would work better?

Put big magnet on pan drag it to drain plug.

Some more good ideas coming out here... I will rotate the engine by hand and drain the oil and refill through the valley a few times. I have a fairly large speaker that I can use as a magnet too to drag the bottom of the pan. It shouldn't take more than a few tries to know whether or not its going to work!

Thanks again

I'd let it go! it'll get washed down into the pan when it starts & oil is splashing and it wont make it past the fine screen on the pickup

I wouldn't rotate the engine until you've found it just on the odd chance that it's fallen in to a spot that it can get wedged between something.

You could well end up dropping the pan, pouring oil in might not be enough flow over it to make it move.

Run it

I'd nt worry about it. It's too small to damage big parts but big enough to not get sucked into the oil pump.
It will likely end up in the bottom of the pan and stay there for the next 1000k miles.

Here is another identical lock washer with a penny for scale to show the size... it really is a tiny thing.

Raise the rear of the car up high and dump kerosene , or mineral spirits , what ever is cheaper in and wash it toward the front of the pan , if you wash it to the rear it might not make it to the sump.

If you pull the pan and the tray and it's not there put the magnet up and over the rods til you find it .

Fugetaboutit

Hey guys

I drained the oil and dumped it back through the valley three times and didn't find the washer in the pan with a magnet.

After doing that, I crawled back under the car last night with the intention of dropping the pan, but just couldn't bring myself to do it. I know that it could very well come back to haunt me, but I'm just gonna leave it in there.

Thanks for the advice guys!

Ain't going to hurt a thing.

definitely understand that sentiment! good luck with it!

Not going to hurt a thing unless it's pulled up the pickup and gets into the oil pump, I've seen the presser relief valve stick wide open as a result of junk going thru the pump. Zero oil pressure!

Bubba fix: get one of dem der magnetic drain plugs from Wally World. Splashing around in der, you might land dat sucker where It can't do no damage. Not likely to anyhow, that's what the pump screen is there for.

You might check out this magnet, perhaps even fetch the washer from top side where it fell in.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000H5Q...ailpage_o09_s00

Are you absolutely positively saw it with your own eyes sure that it did not go down an intake port instead of down past the cam?

Everyone telling you to just run it aren't the ones that will have to deal with the aftermath.

I work in confined spaces with hi voltage ... 50kvdc ... if I dropped something like that I don't leave till I find it ... and I find it.

And what is the projected aftermath of leaving it there?
It's too small to damage the bottom end, too big to sucked into the oil pump.
If it ended up in an intake port there's only a 12% chance it went into a cylinder.

Like I said in my first post, you need to dump something like gas or kerosene into the valley to wash it down into the sump. The oil you dumped in is too thick and won't move that washer if it's laying on the windage tray's oil film.

If that doesn't work, drop the pan and find it.
If you are determined to leave it in there and run it, atleast get a magnetic drain plug so if/when it does make it to the sump, hopefully it'll stick to it and stay put.

Way back in the mid-70s I dropped a small washer with the distributor out and it went right down the hole and gone.

Every now and again I'd think I heard it tink-tink-tink as it slung around in there but it was probably just my imagination.

That was a little different case, because mine went right down the front of the engine, not into the heart of things.

I was about 17 at the time. Today I'd probably tear it down to find it or it would drive me nuts worrying about it.

I'd tear it down. My name should've been Murphy because anything that can happen will happen to me. I don't have the golden touch that some seem to have.

Hey guys

I just keep coming back to the question... "what damage could this washer actually cause?" Its a serious question, and not me thinking that it couldn't do any damage.

After dropping it in there (it definitely didn't go into the intake port) chances are it landed on the rotating assembly. I have now cranked the engine over (not started it), and chances are it has been flung down to the windage tray. Obviously buzzing an engine up to say 6500 RPM will make a serious whirlwind of oil and it could move the washer all around inside the engine, but what damage could it do? I think that its too big to get at any bearings or get under a piston skirt, or get sucked up by the pump. I guess it could get flung up to the cam and cause damage like that?

Thanks for the continued advice/support here guys... just so you know where my indecisiveness is coming from, I am at the end of a seriously long project on the car (like 6 months of evenings and weekends) and honestly I am simply sick of working on the car and just want to finish what is required and drive it.

You've been working on it for 6 months already...what's another couple hours to drop the pan and get the washer out?

this is a tough one, i know. believe me, i know well the feeling of having been at it so long, and just not having the motivation to do this. i'm about to tear my transmission out for a problem that i've been chasing for years, never find any evidence of the problem, put it back together and it runs fine, for a while.

anyway, i think the only real issue is to make a firm decision that

a) you are willing to deal with the consequences if this goes wrong, (in which case i would write that decision down on a piece of paper so you can look at it later when, if something does go wrong, you are tempted to kick yourself in a$$ for making that decision)

b) you suck it up and tear it apart.

i understand eiher way, and would be tempted to take option a. you just have to be sure you are willing to live with the possible consequences.

oh, and if you decide to tear it apart, get new pan gaskets from superformance. i have them on my pan now, and they are fantastic! no leaks, and only a very small bead of gasket sealer on the top gasket to the pan rail. if i have to take the pan off again, it will be a piece of cake!

Bingo!!! Much ado about nothing. Even if it does miraculously get picked up by the rotating assembly, after a couple of bounces it'll wind up in the pan where the pickup screen will stop its movement.

Just put a magnet on the bottom of the oil pan and leave it there. When the washer makes it's way there the magnet will hold it through the pan and keep it there. That way it won't be moving around .

is this a new cam (and or ring) breakin? too much cranking would concern me more than the washer, just sayin

No... engine is not a new build. I just meant that I hadnt started it since dropping the washer in it.

Alright, good deal

I'd lift the motor after unhooking the mounts, then remove the pan to look. If I didn't find it, I wouldn't be able to sleep at night until I pulled the engine and found it.

4 hours to pull the engine, a few hours to start removing the bottom end until you find it, begin reassembly, and 4 hours to put it back together. You're talking a weekend. one single weekend. vs the potential that something bad happens and you're out several weekends as you pull it out, tear it down, machine costs, new parts costs, time to rebuild, etc.

I did the same thing with a carb washer. A trusted mechanic friend told me to forget about it.I turned it over by hand to check for binding and ran it. It was in the pan when I swapped to a Kevco 1000 mi later. Unless you roll the car it's not going anywhere.

If you have money leave it in there and start it and see what happens. If you are on a budget I would pull the pan and look for it. Too many could have, would have, should have scenarios in the long run. If it was me I would pull the pan and try to look for it at least. Some what a peace of mind that I can say I tried to look for it.

I think I would put a put a magnetic drain plug in and drive it.

Jack the car up so it angles the engine back. Put a 12" or larger sub-woofer under your oil pan. Play some appropriate rap, preferably gangsta rap with explicit lyrics, at a very high volume.
The vibes should make the washer wanna chill in the oil pan, and probably smoke blunts. From there, you can fish it to the drain hole with a magnet.
Sometimes you gotta think outside the (speaker) box.

Bah!

Can't believe we're still on this non-issue. Does he or does he not have a screen on the intake of his oil pump? If there is a screen, end of story.
A magnetic drain plug would be nice, or a magnet epoxied to the outside of the bottom of the pan would work.

We need to get out of this oh-so-scary car business and take up crocheting. Knitting is too dangerous, those sharp needles!

R.

The pan is steel. No need for epoxy. It will be happy to hold itself in place.

Try this magnet....it should hold the washer still

http://www.ubergizmo.com/2011/07/worlds-strongest-magnet/

On eBay search for item# 221851605926