Alright, the saga that was rebuilding and refurbishing all front end parts and replacing the brakes on my 69 Satellite wagon with Wilwood 4 piston discs has ended and I'm finally ready to get the damn thing aligned.

The car is a daily driver as much as it can be - I take the train back and forth daily, but then I drive it at night and on the weekends - last year I put 2500 miles on it and I doubt I can match that this year since its been in the garage for three months I otherwise would have been driving it.

I would like to take it autocrossing someday, maybe at Carlisle if I take it there this year.

Basically, I'd just like to have a big heavy wagon that will surprise me on and off highway ramps and maybe turn a few heads on the autocross because it isn't terrible.

Briefly, specs are as follows:
1.12 Torsion Bars
Proforged Billet Tubular Tie Rod Sleeves
11/16 Tie Rods
18x8 wheels - 245/45/18 Milestar Tires
Moog 7103 Offset Upper Control Arm Bushings set correctly

My alignment guy has a ton of experience with old cars and Mopars - he is cool with me providing specs and setting it to them.

I'm planning to raise the front end of the car only as high as I want it and then telling him to set the alignment with the car as it sits.

From autoxcuda, I've seen these numbers:

Daily Driver Settings:
Caster: 4.4 positive (as much possible, I run offset UCA bushings #7103)
Camber: .5 negative
Total Toe: 0.12 ~1/16" toe in

Aggressive setup:
Camber 1.5 negative
Caster 4.5 positive
Total Toe: .12 deg in ~1/16 toe in

I'm thinking of in the middle of these two setups, but I'll go aggressive if it will give me a better feeling car.

Or tell me something else entirely.

Thanks as always for your advice, Moparts!

1.5 neg camber on the street even with aggressive driving will wear inside faster in 8,000 miles. Noticing that on my car. Not really faster. But noticeable in 8,000 miles.

I think i'd go 1.0 neg camber or .75

On a that wagon with thin side walls: .75 neg camber.

Thank you, I was hoping you would weigh in.

So 1.0 neg camber or .75?

Then what settings for everything else?
Total Toe is obviously .12 degree in with ~1/16 toe in

Caster settings?
4.5? I have the same offset bushings you do, I bet the guy could do it.
Is caster something I should have balanced with camber?

Alignment is not an exact science on these cars. Once on the rack, your specs may become a compromise if you cant achieve your numbers similar on both sides. The more caster you have, the less caster you can get away with. Higher caster keeps the contact patch on the ground through the turn. Over 3 may be a crap shoot even with the offset bushings.

doesn't camber keep the contact patch in the turns while caster helps the car go in a straight line ? also, how much cross caster/camber is acceptable ?

Caster is the degrees of camber change through the sweep of turn. If you've ever seen a stock suspension car go through a hard turn, the inside wheel goes way neg camber. Increased caster helps maintain that contact patch. Same is true with the outside wheel, but not as much neg camber is needed to compensate for the load to outside. Hope that makes some sense?

You can't achieve enough caster with stock arms to begin with. So you align to as much caster as possible while still ending up with a livable amount of negative camber as Steve suggested.

Thank you for all of the advice, everyone.

Unfortunately, the [censored] Wilwood Proportioning Valve swap I decided to do is still giving me problems, so I can't get it aligned tomorrow with no brakes on the car.

But when I get it aligned next week, I will probably do the following:

.75 Negative Camber
As Much Caster As Possible, but keeping both sides even
0.12 ~1/16" toe in

Sound like a plan that will handle well and keep me satisfied?

Yes, in its static settings they do exactly that. However, camber and caster also have a dynamic side that occurs when the suspension moves through its travel. Higher caster not only produces straight line stability but also increases steering effort ( good for offsetting some of that mopar over-assist in power systems) increases return to center characteristics (so the steering self centers faster), and most importantly creates greater dynamic negative camber gain.

So with 2* positive caster and zero camber, you may get 1/2* of negative camber as the outside tire compresses. However, step up caster to 6* and you may now gain 1.5* of negative camber in the same wheel travel. That is a huge increase in maintaining tread contact while the body rolls around its axis.

This is why in stock form, 1st gen Camaros are such handling turds. They go into positive camber under compression. The exact opposite of what you want for handling. That's yet another reason why there are so many modification to and suspension companies for GM products.





Yes, that is a great goal for all around street performance.

Finally having the thing aligned tomorrow to these specs:
(Literally giving the guy this spec sheet, though I already talked to him about it and he said it sounded ok to him.)

Camber
.75 degree negative or as close as possible to that with both sides even

Caster
As much as possible with both sides even
(I’ve been told 4.5 positive is possible on these with these control arm bushings, but if it can’t go that high due to the camber I want, so be it)

Toe-In
.12 degrees/~1/16’’


I'll report back with my experiences and how the car feels.
Mainly I just can't wait to drive the damn thing again.

you got the caster and camber backwards

you want as much caster as you can get and less then a full degree of negative camber...

Ha, yes I did, good catch! THANKS!

Changed up top to avoid confusion for others in the future.

I did this at work and apparently didn't pay attention to which heading I was typing in - luckily I decided to post it on Moparts!

So how did the alignment work out?

Unfortunately, the first shop I brought it to insisted that the steering box was bad and would not align the car.

It clearly is not, and I will not be taking the car there any longer.
It has an appointment to be aligned by a shop experienced in Mopars on Friday and will be aligned to that spec.

I hate Alignment shops, looking for a good Camber Caster gauge as I type.

and i am just as capable as any shop to make the steering wheel crooked going down the road straight.......

Any news on this? Its a shame that most shops these days can't/won't adjust caster and camber. We have gauges and turn plates. We do it on every car we do and record before and after measurements. Perfect every time. Even the steering wheel is straight. It doesn't take an expensive machine to do this. The machine makes it faster, that's all.

The shop where it was supposed to get done cancelled on me because it is a one man affair and he got sick.
I wanted to get it out on the road and drive it, so I took it to my regular shop that does all types of repair and gave them the specs.

Car got aligned, I'm happy with it, but I'm not sure that they did it exactly to spec because they forgot to print out the sheet for me.
I asked for the sheet specifically and they didn't do it, and my father delivered the car to the shop and picked it up for me, so he didn't realize that they didn't give it to him. When I called and asked for it later, they said they couldn't do it.

I don't know why making the printout is so hard, especially for a shop that I generally find very competent.

It drives quite nicely now, and with some additional upgrades made this summer (Hotchkis Fox shocks, Hellwig rear sway bar), it can really wrap around the twisties.

I will continue to drive it and will likely post an update to another thread I made in this section soon.