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Re: MUSCLE MOTORS 30 MIN ENGINE
[Re: steve660]
#1857236
06/26/15 03:35 AM
06/26/15 03:35 AM
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Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 3,245
Between a rock & a hard place
cudadoug
master
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master
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 3,245
Between a rock & a hard place
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All I want is for Mr. Edwards to be enjoying his car. That being said, you don't buy something from Home Depot, have an issue and take it to Lowes to have it fixed and send Home Depot the bill. Obviously We are under a micro scope and it is in our best interest to bring this situation to a speedy conclusion. For the record: I, Michael Ware, owner of Muscle Motors will bring the engine back here, replace the bent valve, verify and adjust guide clearance if necessary.
I suspect that the lifters may have excessive clearance causieng the low oil pressure at idle. We will completely disassemble the engine and using a BHJ fixture install lifter bushings and hone for correct sizing again no charge. Mr Edwards also wanted a different type of retainer, We will change those at no cost to Mr Edwards. We will then have the engine shipped back to Mr Edwards and we will absorb the shipping charges. I believe this a fair and amicable offer. Mike, Im very apprehensive about this but I will give your offer some thought. If you bush lifter bores it will also require diff pushrods without restricters. I would also like to know how you will address the low cylinder pressure issue. My thinking is to spec out a custom cam. I've used Scott Brown before and know he's really good at pump gas cams. Then you're continuing to be part of the problem, not the solution. The owner of the shop has agreed to fix the issues at his cost, and I'm sorry...but it doesn't get any better than that. Guess what? EVERY engine builder has had something not turn out they way they wanted. It take a true, dedicated business man to stand behind his build which is appears what's going on here. Put your man-pants on and WORK WITH THE OFFER TO FIND THE SOLUTION. Better than bashing a well established shop who HAS OFFERED TO FIX IT. PS: Being that you're NOT an engine builder why do you care about cylinder pressure as long as it's a solid motor and makes the power?? Sounds like you're continuing to LOOK FOR "issues". If "your thinking is to spec a custom cam", then maybe you should have "been thinking" to build it yourself. Right?
Last edited by cudadoug; 06/26/15 03:38 AM.
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Re: MUSCLE MOTORS 30 MIN ENGINE
[Re: cudadoug]
#1857271
06/26/15 09:30 AM
06/26/15 09:30 AM
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Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 159
australia
charger410
member
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member
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 159
australia
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All I want is for Mr. Edwards to be enjoying his car. That being said, you don't buy something from Home Depot, have an issue and take it to Lowes to have it fixed and send Home Depot the bill. Obviously We are under a micro scope and it is in our best interest to bring this situation to a speedy conclusion. For the record: I, Michael Ware, owner of Muscle Motors will bring the engine back here, replace the bent valve, verify and adjust guide clearance if necessary.
I suspect that the lifters may have excessive clearance causieng the low oil pressure at idle. We will completely disassemble the engine and using a BHJ fixture install lifter bushings and hone for correct sizing again no charge. Mr Edwards also wanted a different type of retainer, We will change those at no cost to Mr Edwards. We will then have the engine shipped back to Mr Edwards and we will absorb the shipping charges. I believe this a fair and amicable offer. Mike, Im very apprehensive about this but I will give your offer some thought. If you bush lifter bores it will also require diff pushrods without restricters. I would also like to know how you will address the low cylinder pressure issue. My thinking is to spec out a custom cam. I've used Scott Brown before and know he's really good at pump gas cams. Then you're continuing to be part of the problem, not the solution. The owner of the shop has agreed to fix the issues at his cost, and I'm sorry...but it doesn't get any better than that. Guess what? EVERY engine builder has had something not turn out they way they wanted. It take a true, dedicated business man to stand behind his build which is appears what's going on here. Put your man-pants on and WORK WITH THE OFFER TO FIND THE SOLUTION. Better than bashing a well established shop who HAS OFFERED TO FIX IT. PS: Being that you're NOT an engine builder why do you care about cylinder pressure as long as it's a solid motor and makes the power?? Sounds like you're continuing to LOOK FOR "issues". If "your thinking is to spec a custom cam", then maybe you should have "been thinking" to build it yourself. Right? I agree
Peter. Australian Charger, alloy block injected 410in, w9 na 9.03@148 leafs 3000lb
1967 barracuda 605 hemi Stage5 millennium 8.2@170
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Re: MUSCLE MOTORS 30 MIN ENGINE
[Re: charger410]
#1857284
06/26/15 10:13 AM
06/26/15 10:13 AM
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Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 1,845
Tampa
DusterDave
top fuel
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top fuel
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 1,845
Tampa
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If I were steve660, I'd bring this public discussion to a close, and deal with MM on a one to one basis. There's nothing more to be gained by playing out this saga publicly.
Gone to the dark side with an LS3 powered '57 Chevy 210
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Re: MUSCLE MOTORS 30 MIN ENGINE
[Re: DusterDave]
#1857292
06/26/15 10:39 AM
06/26/15 10:39 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 9,994
Frostbitefalls MN (Rocky&Bullw...
gregsdart
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 9,994
Frostbitefalls MN (Rocky&Bullw...
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If I were steve660, I'd bring this public discussion to a close, and deal with MM on a one to one basis. There's nothing more to be gained by playing out this saga publicly. I originally posted to send it to Best or another Mopar shop, but after reading Mikes response you have to give him a chance to fix it. This is his bread and butter hear, not some used car deal that went sour. Also diagnosing what is wrong with a big project like this isn't easy. There may be many things a novice misses that an experienced engine builder would know. As far as the time line, a custom engine is always going to be hard to deliver on time, and almost never on budget. OP, good luck with this deal, and I hope it turns out the best for both.
8..603 156 mph best, 2905 lbs 549, indy 572-13, alky
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Re: MUSCLE MOTORS 30 MIN ENGINE
[Re: steve660]
#1857300
06/26/15 10:52 AM
06/26/15 10:52 AM
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Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 2,422
Pittsburgh PA
Eric
top fuel
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top fuel
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 2,422
Pittsburgh PA
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You have nothing to lose in sending it back at this point. The laundry has been aired and if the results aren't right everyone will know. I'm sure Mike will take extra care to make sure it goes out right this time. If it does'nt it's obvious to him he will lose some future business.
5.53 @ 125 1/8th on the launch control..more left in her!
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Re: MUSCLE MOTORS 30 MIN ENGINE
[Re: Eric]
#1857314
06/26/15 11:17 AM
06/26/15 11:17 AM
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Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 20,172
PA.
pittsburghracer
"Little"John
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"Little"John
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 20,172
PA.
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You have nothing to lose in sending it back at this point. The laundry has been aired and if the results aren't right everyone will know. I'm sure Mike will take extra care to make sure it goes out right this time. If it does'nt it's obvious to him he will lose some future business. I agree 100%. He threw a very nice offer out there in writing for all to see. Go for it.
1970 Duster
Edelbrock headed 408
5.984@112.52
422 Indy headed small block
5.982@112.56 mph
9.42@138.27
Livin and lovin life one day at a time
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Re: MUSCLE MOTORS 30 MIN ENGINE
[Re: pittsburghracer]
#1857380
06/26/15 01:23 PM
06/26/15 01:23 PM
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Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 5,102
Western Md.
skicker
"The Champ"
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"The Champ"
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 5,102
Western Md.
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I agree 100%. He threw a very nice offer out there in writing for all to see. Go for it.
 There's not too many shops in this day and age who will make the offer that's been given. It's ultimately your decision alone...but I personally have never thought that "burning bridges" is a good message to send to the next shop you may want to work with... 
...FAFO...
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Re: MUSCLE MOTORS 30 MIN ENGINE
[Re: pittsburghracer]
#1857384
06/26/15 01:30 PM
06/26/15 01:30 PM
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Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 289
Lowes
steve660
OP
enthusiast
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OP
enthusiast
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 289
Lowes
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I will give MM the opportunity to make things right. Once I get it back I will let everyone know the results.
As far as the comments regarding cylinder pressure goes, Mike is the one that told me that 150 was lower than what he anticipated. That's why I mentioned it.
PSO headed 632 from MM. Cracked cylinder, loose valve seats, low oil pressure, low cylinder pressure.
..... Now its a door stop....
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Re: MUSCLE MOTORS 30 MIN ENGINE
[Re: steve660]
#1857385
06/26/15 01:34 PM
06/26/15 01:34 PM
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Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 4,457
Washington
madscientist
master
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master
Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 4,457
Washington
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I will give MM the opportunity to make things right. Once I get it back I will let everyone know the results.
As far as the comments regarding cylinder pressure goes, Mike is the one that told me that 150 was lower than what he anticipated. That's why I mentioned it.
Good decision on your part. Give them the same shot you would expect if you made a mistake. BTW...did MM provide a build sheet with the engine? If so, it would have all the measurements and dimensions on it. Just curious.
Just because you think it won't make it true. Horsepower is KING. To dispute this is stupid. C. Alston
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Re: MUSCLE MOTORS 30 MIN ENGINE
[Re: madscientist]
#1857440
06/26/15 03:18 PM
06/26/15 03:18 PM
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Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 289
Lowes
steve660
OP
enthusiast
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OP
enthusiast
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 289
Lowes
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I will give MM the opportunity to make things right. Once I get it back I will let everyone know the results.
As far as the comments regarding cylinder pressure goes, Mike is the one that told me that 150 was lower than what he anticipated. That's why I mentioned it.
Good decision on your part. Give them the same shot you would expect if you made a mistake. BTW...did MM provide a build sheet with the engine? If so, it would have all the measurements and dimensions on it. Just curious. PM SENT......
PSO headed 632 from MM. Cracked cylinder, loose valve seats, low oil pressure, low cylinder pressure.
..... Now its a door stop....
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Re: MUSCLE MOTORS 30 MIN ENGINE
[Re: madscientist]
#1857619
06/26/15 07:53 PM
06/26/15 07:53 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 32,394
Quicktree
I Win
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I Win
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 32,394
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I will give MM the opportunity to make things right. Once I get it back I will let everyone know the results.
As far as the comments regarding cylinder pressure goes, Mike is the one that told me that 150 was lower than what he anticipated. That's why I mentioned it.
Good decision on your part. Give them the same shot you would expect if you made a mistake. BTW...did MM provide a build sheet with the engine? If so, it would have all the measurements and dimensions on it. Just curious. that depends on how long he takes to get his motor back to him and if he tries any additional charges and how well he takes care of the issues. this could turn into another motor prison...
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Re: MUSCLE MOTORS 30 MIN ENGINE
[Re: steve660]
#1858034
06/27/15 10:53 AM
06/27/15 10:53 AM
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Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 4,206
New York
polyspheric
master
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master
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 4,206
New York
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A 12:1 motor with good ring seal needs the intake closing way up in the 80's ABDC to show 150 psi on a gauge,
Does it?
Boffin Emeritus
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Re: MUSCLE MOTORS 30 MIN ENGINE
[Re: polyspheric]
#1858101
06/27/15 01:00 PM
06/27/15 01:00 PM
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Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 289
Lowes
steve660
OP
enthusiast
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OP
enthusiast
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 289
Lowes
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quote=polyspheric]A 12:1 motor with good ring seal needs the intake closing way up in the 80's ABDC to show 150 psi on a gauge,
Does it? [/quote]
Cam card shows:
IO @ 31.5
IC@ 71.5
EO@ 85.5
EC@ 29.5
PSO headed 632 from MM. Cracked cylinder, loose valve seats, low oil pressure, low cylinder pressure.
..... Now its a door stop....
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Re: MUSCLE MOTORS 30 MIN ENGINE
[Re: steve660]
#1858153
06/27/15 02:23 PM
06/27/15 02:23 PM
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 12,419
Kalispell Mt.
HotRodDave
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 12,419
Kalispell Mt.
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Is that at .050?
Is it installed that was or advanced or retarded?
I am not causing global warming, I am just trying to hold off a impending Ice Age!
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Re: MUSCLE MOTORS 30 MIN ENGINE
[Re: HotRodDave]
#1858201
06/27/15 03:28 PM
06/27/15 03:28 PM
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Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 289
Lowes
steve660
OP
enthusiast
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OP
enthusiast
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 289
Lowes
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Is that at .050?
Is it installed that was or advanced or retarded? Yes, That's at .050. I'm not sure how MM installed it. I was going to check how it was installed and If it was installed straight up I was going to try advancing it to increase cylinder pressure. I will be pulling engine next week and get it ready to return to MM.
PSO headed 632 from MM. Cracked cylinder, loose valve seats, low oil pressure, low cylinder pressure.
..... Now its a door stop....
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Re: MUSCLE MOTORS 30 MIN ENGINE
[Re: steve660]
#1858317
06/27/15 07:13 PM
06/27/15 07:13 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 6,591
Canton, Ohio
Sport440
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 6,591
Canton, Ohio
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Is that at .050?
Is it installed that was or advanced or retarded? Yes, That's at .050. I'm not sure how MM installed it. I was going to check how it was installed and If it was installed straight up I was going to try advancing it to increase cylinder pressure. I will be pulling engine next week and get it ready to return to MM. If your correct on your specs your @ 4* advanced installed at a 110 ICL with a 114 LSA cam with a intake duration of 283 @ .050 and a exhaust duration of 295 @ .050
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