Re: Edelbrock 1411 lean issues on 440
[Re: chermik1999]
#1830720
05/20/15 12:38 PM
05/20/15 12:38 PM
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RapidRobert
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what idle speed? still on idle circuit? check integrity of needle/seats/float saturation/fuel psi at carb. make sure the rods are down at idle & might bump the initial up to 18-20 & see what that does for it & yes that'd push you total likely too high but just stay at idle with it at 18 & work there & see what develops (cuz idle is where the prob is). yes the 1411 is the eddy 750 that gets all the flak but work with it & holler how it goes. I have one I bought for $25 but I ain't got to it yet. (the 25 shoulda been a red flag but I feel lucky) EDIT you mentioned lean misfire, not sure about that but I'd block the rods up for that & see what happens & what were the idle A/F readings again
Last edited by RapidRobert; 05/20/15 12:59 PM.
live every 24 hour block of time like it's your last day on earth
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Re: Edelbrock 1411 lean issues on 440
[Re: chermik1999]
#1830825
05/20/15 02:53 PM
05/20/15 02:53 PM
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Sounds like a miss to me. Got a cylinder not firing at idle? That would make it rich smell, but lean AF if I am thinking right.
They say there are no such thing as a stupid question. They say there is always the exception that proves the rule. Don't be the exception.
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Re: Edelbrock 1411 lean issues on 440
[Re: chermik1999]
#1830864
05/20/15 03:41 PM
05/20/15 03:41 PM
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DaveRS23
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Do you know anyone that might have a carb that they would lend you just to see if the problem remains with the loaner? How about pulling plug wires one at a time at idle to see if you have a dead or weak cyl at idle?
You need to determine whether the problem is the carb or the engine itself before doing anything else.
One last thing, do not worry about any particular A/F ratio at idle. I see good idles anywhere from 13.5 to 14.5. The idle ratio doesn't matter, just tune for what the engine likes. Of course, if the idle mix is way off, then the O2 can tell you which way to go. If it has a mild cam, then a vacuum gage works good or you can just tune it using a good low RPM tach.
Master, again and still
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Re: Edelbrock 1411 lean issues on 440
[Re: Mr.Yuck]
#1830972
05/20/15 06:00 PM
05/20/15 06:00 PM
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RapidRobert
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use your light to see if each one is firing rather than pulling a wire. electronics dont like opens. grounding each wire WO pulliing it works
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Re: Edelbrock 1411 lean issues on 440
[Re: chermik1999]
#1831271
05/21/15 01:29 AM
05/21/15 01:29 AM
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SomeCarGuy
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That lean at idle with two different carbs points to a vac leak. Check the intake and power booster if it has one.
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Re: Edelbrock 1411 lean issues on 440
[Re: chermik1999]
#1831292
05/21/15 03:29 AM
05/21/15 03:29 AM
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chermik1999
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I bought this car last Sept. is a 68 RR, first gen (1st 6mos of build) The guy said runs great....I knew it needed work with these issues, but I've had SB's for years, and thought no big deal. Well been a week now...lol. But i'm sure I'll get it. Love the car as what it needed was just final details and touch-ups. Oh ya...paint too...paint is good from far but far from good if you know what I mean...lol. I paint in my shop anyway, so will cut and polish for now until winter. Then B/C and color sand/polish for a perfect finish later.
I did read one thread quoting either Rick here or Barry Grant about lean misfires diagnosed as rich when actually are a lean condition. That's why leaning toward this route. When I played with the 750 long enough, I thought I'd try the 800. It was marginally better but still not where it should be. So yes, I still have underlying issues.
Also forgot, one muffler is shot...blown a hole in it. That's coming as well soon (Jegs BO). That wouldn't do that would it?
Good catch somecarguy. No power brakes, but will check for leaks. Dyno on 2007 sheet shows 14hg at 800 rpm from Year One, but we all know those were not real all the time. Sure not getting that reading today.
Mr Yuck and Robert, good points as well. I didn't know a timing light on each wire would tell you if it's firing or not. See...not too old to learn something new....even from Canada ey....lol. Also the blocking up of the rods. If it still read stupid lean, then I have major issues....GOOD ONE!
When back Monday, will do a dry/wet comp and check again for vacuum leaks. ran unlit propane around base but found none. Will try again.
At initial timing of 14 deg, did a run and got some pinging when moshed it, but cleared up after tires stopped spinning...lol. So I know it's lean...
Have as I said one of those Asian Procomp dist and I'm sure isn't working properly. When mech advance is at 34 deg @ 2500 - 3000 rpm, back at idle it's like 9 deg. Bump back up to say 14 at idle, and goes over bad. Then changes again...so think that junk has to go. So that thing is not running right either. Have the MSD all in one enroute from Jegs coming soon. It's fully adjustable and has a built in rev limiter as well. Has capability to stop advance at a specified RPM. Will change that, plug wires and plugs. Comp test, reset timing and then carb. Then will check again.
So keep the ideas coming if I am missing something. Be mid - end of next week with results, so stay tuned. Thanks again!
cheers - Mike
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Re: Edelbrock 1411 lean issues on 440
[Re: chermik1999]
#1832139
05/22/15 01:23 PM
05/22/15 01:23 PM
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chermik1999
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Sensor on one side but its the same on both. Plugs aren't black anymore, light brown to light grey. Im going to change them to get a better reading as they have been in for a while, When they were black, they cleaned up after the dist change and tweaking the carbs.
Vac advance is hooked up. So yes, will disconnect it and I'll try propping up the rods at idle as well. Then take a reading again. Fuel pressure is stock but tested that and was at 5-6 I believe. Floats set a few times, but stayed steady at 7/16" so looks ok there as well.
Aside for the richness at idle, had I not had an AFR meter, I would have left it running as is. Runs good off the line, mid a WOT. Little pinging, but was waiting to change the dist. I have read that the procomp dists have many issues. Boought this one off Ebay from Skip White. Says it was set at 20 deg max advance, but funny thing. He doesn't sell them anymore. So what can I say.
I'll do the changes next week as the parts should be in. I'll get to the bottom of this, with all your help as well ....thanks guys.
--Mike
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Re: Edelbrock 1411 lean issues on 440
[Re: chermik1999]
#1832364
05/22/15 06:25 PM
05/22/15 06:25 PM
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RapidRobert
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I had a 1406 on a stock 350 horse 440 in a C boat (came that way) & ran flawless. not sure if they richened it as 1406's are lean but 1405's are richer so you'll be fine (at least on the mains). post how it turns out
live every 24 hour block of time like it's your last day on earth
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Re: Edelbrock 1411 lean issues on 440
[Re: chermik1999]
#1833636
05/25/15 01:34 AM
05/25/15 01:34 AM
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chermik1999
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OK...here's one plug as they all look the same. I just changed them for NGK short as these seemed to be very long. ???? Now, I did put on the 1405 and even worse, AFR 29-30 at idle. So checked timing again. at idle 12 deg, at 2000 rpm - 35 deg mech. At 18 deg idle even worse. So this dist is literally junk.....I have read Procomp has many issues. And Skip White doesn't reply. So no worries...the MSD is going on tomorrow. So i'll keep trying tomorrow.
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Re: Edelbrock 1411 lean issues on 440
[Re: chermik1999]
#1833690
05/25/15 07:15 AM
05/25/15 07:15 AM
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OK...here's one plug as they all look the same. I just changed them for NGK short as these seemed to be very long. ????
You got a lot of problems if that plug is indicative of all 8. TOO RICH, your afr reading is plain wrong, period. Find somewhere else to take it, the tail pipe is not cutting it. Too long, if that much of the plug is exposed inside the combustion chamber you have issues. I suspect your timing problems are self induced as well.
They say there are no such thing as a stupid question. They say there is always the exception that proves the rule. Don't be the exception.
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Re: Edelbrock 1411 lean issues on 440
[Re: chermik1999]
#1834325
05/26/15 02:10 AM
05/26/15 02:10 AM
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chermik1999
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Well got new MSD installed. Funny thing. I cant start the car now with the ign switch. Have to turn the switch on and use a started button....guess I need a switch now. Here's a New plug with a run on it. So yuup....super lean. But still smells dog rich...eye burning. So have to put in a few springs as the dist needs recurve. Vacuum gauge says eng likes 20 deg initial. But at 3000 rpm max mech advance is 25 deg, so got to bump that up. May start to fix my AFR problems. Also will weld in a bung and get that O2 in the pipe not the tip. Stills works fine on newer vehicles from the tip, so I don't know. Ideas..... [img:left] [/img]
Last edited by chermik1999; 05/26/15 02:15 AM.
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Re: Edelbrock 1411 lean issues on 440
[Re: chermik1999]
#1834417
05/26/15 11:14 AM
05/26/15 11:14 AM
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RapidRobert
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l got new MSD installed. Funny thing. I cant start the car now with the ign switch. Ideas..... Like any box the MSD would need to be fed in ign2 (crank) also which is sounds like ain't being done (check how you have it wired). Not sure if it is gassy from extremely rich or if you are smelling the unburned mixture from a lean misfire. I'm thinking the 1st one. I'd block the rods up or screw in a gutted PV (removing the spring from a junk one might work??) which would I would think help if it is a lean misfire (wouldn't take long/easily reverseable)
live every 24 hour block of time like it's your last day on earth
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Re: Edelbrock 1411 lean issues on 440
[Re: chermik1999]
#1834848
05/26/15 09:47 PM
05/26/15 09:47 PM
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chermik1999
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OK...went from this this morning [img:left] [/img] to this now [img:left] [/img] So getting better. I put the 750 back on with #29 jet/rod combo. Still was lean so kept the jet and changed for 70x37 instead of 73x42 rods. So better but still lean misfire. Not as bad on the eyes and better on AFR like 20-23 now but still smells rich. So again the AFR meter is working....reading what Im doing for sure at the tailpipe with adapter. So I need a big carb....this one has a lot of slop in the throttle body and losing between 50-90 rpm when playing with it. So vacuum diff of 5hg. That's done I believe. The 800 is like an older webber design and I think it has issues in the circuitry, so next step? I think new carb to start, but im wondering about the Demons? How do you guys feel and what size. I think this motor needs an 800??? Ideas......
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Re: Edelbrock 1411 lean issues on 440
[Re: chermik1999]
#1835170
05/27/15 11:25 AM
05/27/15 11:25 AM
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DaveRS23
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Bring the cylinder with low compression up to TDC on the compression stroke. Rig up a way to get air pressure into that cylinder, 50 lbs +/-. Then listen in the tail pipe, carb, and valve cover breather for the air.
Quick and easy way to determine if the comp loss is past the cylinder or a valve and will indicate what the fix will likely entail.
A modest loss of compression can cause a miss at idle and then not be as noticeable as RPMs increase.
Master, again and still
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Re: Edelbrock 1411 lean issues on 440
[Re: chermik1999]
#1835224
05/27/15 01:10 PM
05/27/15 01:10 PM
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Mr.Yuck
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Well could but still pings. That has to be dealt with as well.
So you wouldn't be worried with all that has gone on with this? Last week it punished well. Great throttle response, even with a one ledger 2.76, she smoked that one time well..lol. Now seems loss of power. But it did and still smells rich..too much. So I have to deal with that.. That's what started this
....it's not got lisc plates as I need an out of province inspection first. Can drive to the gas station, but I'll get some jerry cans of premium in today. See if the pinging backs down..
do not hook up the vac advance. It could be pinging because it's advancing up to 50*
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Re: Edelbrock 1411 lean issues on 440
[Re: chermik1999]
#1835395
05/27/15 04:40 PM
05/27/15 04:40 PM
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p d'ro
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yuup...tried all areas. Is manual brakes, so no poster to worry about. Plus im getting 10-12 hg vacuum, so that's pretty normal. But spec sheet form year One said 14 at 800 rpm. But that could what they all said without checking the actual motor....lol I have a relative stock 440 with a mild XE262 Comp Cam, 915 heads, all cylinders at 160 and one down to 125 and it still pulls 20 hg vacuum. 10-12 with a bouncy needle seems telling, as do the relative low compression readings. Hopefully the leakdown reveals something easy. Unfortunately mine did not! Silver spring would get you the most gas early.. Maybe the .065 x .037 jet would do? Solve compression issue first.
Last edited by p d'ro; 05/27/15 04:41 PM.
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Re: Edelbrock 1411 lean issues on 440
[Re: Mr.Yuck]
#1835858
05/28/15 10:47 AM
05/28/15 10:47 AM
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do you still have the old carter 625? If it were me I'd pick up a Holley 750DP or HP. But that's me. Yuup I do, but it's real old. I would think it's too lean according to my AFR readings. But I could try it. This 750 was new on the crate motor I bought for the 72 Charger 3 years ago. We had issues right when we started that one up. So bought a 670 Avenger, and ran nice. It's a 475 HP build and higher compression. So I should have clued in putting it on my 440. Tis why I was thinking the QFT 750. Can jet down after if needed. But hard to go up. And that's what I was thinking????
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Re: Edelbrock 1411 lean issues on 440
[Re: chermik1999]
#1836103
05/28/15 05:40 PM
05/28/15 05:40 PM
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shaker340
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Is 12% really that bad? Considering the constant air pressure is bleeding past piston rings and maybe valves, is not how the engine actually operates, I think you real loss number is less than that when combustion is measured in tenths and hundredths of a second?
What were your other cylinder leakdown numbers?
2008 Challenger SRT8 1940 Chrysler Royal coupe
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Re: Edelbrock 1411 lean issues on 440
[Re: shaker340]
#1836157
05/28/15 07:16 PM
05/28/15 07:16 PM
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Is 12% really that bad? Considering the constant air pressure is bleeding past piston rings and maybe valves, is not how the engine actually operates, I think you real loss number is less than that when combustion is measured in tenths and hundredths of a second?
What were your other cylinder leakdown numbers? Well only checked the bad one. Guess I should. But an update is its not the rings. I just have had it off a bit from TDC. The sure is actually coming out the exhaust. Hear it like a tire leak...lol. This 440 has the oil filler on top #1&2 so you hear the air passing by making it sound like the crankcase. But it got worse after I did a wet test again. Now it's reading 45psi with 90psi feeding. So that exhaust valve has to be deal with. Makes more sense now with my carb sir problems I would say?
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Re: Edelbrock 1411 lean issues on 440
[Re: Supercuda]
#1836253
05/28/15 10:11 PM
05/28/15 10:11 PM
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OK...here's one plug as they all look the same. I just changed them for NGK short as these seemed to be very long. ????
You got a lot of problems if that plug is indicative of all 8. TOO RICH, your afr reading is plain wrong, period. Find somewhere else to take it, the tail pipe is not cutting it. Too long, if that much of the plug is exposed inside the combustion chamber you have issues. I suspect your timing problems are self induced as well. Supercuda...I owe you an apology. Wow...do I feel stupid. I finally welded in a bung. Being in the high side of the 750 even having that throttle shift issue, I'm at 12.5 at idle. A 15:1 diff from tailpipe. And innovate said it's fine? So accept my apology.... I did buy the QFT slayer 750 anyway. So I'll play with this eddy 750 for the experience, but think I'll change it. So now to deal with my valve issue according to the leakdown and finally get this on the road.
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Re: Edelbrock 1411 lean issues on 440
[Re: chermik1999]
#1836296
05/28/15 11:09 PM
05/28/15 11:09 PM
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I appreciate it, just trying to help. Benn following along. Hope you get it sorted out, BTW, the jets and rods from your Edelbrock will work in a Carter too. You might have to swap rod covers if they are different though.
They say there are no such thing as a stupid question. They say there is always the exception that proves the rule. Don't be the exception.
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Re: Edelbrock 1411 lean issues on 440
[Re: Supercuda]
#1836344
05/29/15 12:19 AM
05/29/15 12:19 AM
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chermik1999
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I appreciate it, just trying to help. Benn following along. Hope you get it sorted out, BTW, the jets and rods from your Edelbrock will work in a Carter too. You might have to swap rod covers if they are different though. And I appreciate it..Well I've got this 1411 jetted down a bit and now my AFR is correct, I have to go down more. So I'm worried that the QFT 750 might be too much.ill take it for a spin and see what the other readings are then tweak some more. Thanks...mike
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Re: Edelbrock 1411 lean issues on 440
[Re: chermik1999]
#1836425
05/29/15 02:13 AM
05/29/15 02:13 AM
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Well some good news. Got that Eddy 1411 jetted down 12% lean at cruise and near stock power. Have 13.0 ish at idle and 12.5+ part and 13.5 full throttle. Considering the throttle shaft is loose like crazy, I'm happy with the results. Darn it...2.76 one legger and moshed pedal still smokes one tire....lol. Little ping mid throttle but I can work on that. So New carb! Do I use the QFT 750 or go Holley? Thought for one. Issue #2 - the valve issue. I head it myself coming out the exhaust....I couldn't believe it! So drive it, change the heads...... I await your opinons as they are valued....oh ya...here's the car. [img:left] [/img]
Last edited by chermik1999; 05/29/15 02:18 AM.
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Re: Edelbrock 1411 lean issues on 440
[Re: chermik1999]
#1836852
05/29/15 07:25 PM
05/29/15 07:25 PM
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Here's a thought, get the 1411 rebushed. A competent machinist should be able to do that for way less than a new carb, especially since you have this one almost tuned perfect.
They say there are no such thing as a stupid question. They say there is always the exception that proves the rule. Don't be the exception.
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Re: Edelbrock 1411 lean issues on 440
[Re: Supercuda]
#1836938
05/29/15 10:22 PM
05/29/15 10:22 PM
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chermik1999
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Here's a thought, get the 1411 rebushed. A competent machinist should be able to do that for way less than a new carb, especially since you have this one almost tuned perfect. Too late. Already bought the Quick Fuel. Plus the outfit in Michigan said if I sent it back, he may get it replaced. Thats better...lol. I still may try the 1413 as I bought a trip kit for it, but we'll see. At least now that I have the AFR working properly, the job just got that much easier for tuning..... cheers
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Re: Edelbrock 1411 lean issues on 440
[Re: chermik1999]
#1839233
06/01/15 09:57 PM
06/01/15 09:57 PM
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Ok....some new info.
After talking to our service shop today as he also builds race cars, he said if it has been sitting for a while, it's gummed up. So said to throw in some fuel and valve conditioner. So I ran some more Seafoam from the carb and stalled it plus put in the tank. Let sit for an hour, then took it for a chew. Haven't done a leak down yet.
But before that I had the dr. side valve cover off and started to do #3 etc for leak test. Better at 5% leaking. But #1, I played with it a bit. Took a rubber mallet and tapped a few times. Gauge went down then came up from 25 to say 40. Did this numerous times and finally got it up to 75.
So I think that's the problem. There is merit to what he said. It sat for a few years, got gummed up and needs to be freed up on valves, comp rings, etc.
So, any thoughts on that? I would appear I don't need heads, just major cleaning. Hopefully not a rip down????
Experiences of the same here?
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Re: Edelbrock 1411 lean issues on 440
[Re: chermik1999]
#1849349
06/15/15 02:12 AM
06/15/15 02:12 AM
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Results:
Well, I put on the New Slayer 750 VS. WOW! What a difference. A/F at idle between 13.5-14 now. Excellent idle mixture response. Still a bit rich, but Im at 2300' so could go down a couple sizes on the jets which I'll try this week,
Got the MSD Dist dialed in for 36* at 3000 all in with 17* at idle. Went on the road a few times....no more pinging and hooks that 2.76 one legger to smoke that one tire,,,,lol. So 3:55 suregrip going in shortly as well.
So guess the Edel 750 was a bad carb. The 800 was tired, so Slayer wins this round....
Comp seems better as well. Still may have that sticky valve in #1, but will try a leak down again once I run for a few miles with the fuel/chamber conditioner to free up the vales a bit.
I do have a tick under the valley pan...sounds like a bad lifter at idle, but goes away once higher rpm. Not a knock.....but I think may BB's with a lift cam sound like that?
Want to thank all for the support. Now to the next topic sections for any other advice...lol. Like that valley noise....
cheers
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Re: Edelbrock 1411 lean issues on 440
[Re: chermik1999]
#1849415
06/15/15 09:48 AM
06/15/15 09:48 AM
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RapidRobert
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You sound pumped! confirm your idle psi is enough (gauges can be crap). check preload. might be a bad lifter or two (press down vertical with a wooden hammer handle while idling on each rocker arm on the pushrod end to pinpoint a bad one (the tone will change). new lifter=go thru cam breakin procedure, remove inner spring/breakin oil etc, all those details
live every 24 hour block of time like it's your last day on earth
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Re: Edelbrock 1411 lean issues on 440
[Re: chermik1999]
#1849534
06/15/15 12:49 PM
06/15/15 12:49 PM
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Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 10,212 Someplace you aren't
SomeCarGuy
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Might as well put it here so people can see the progression.
A 750 eddy is a pos. A few on here disagree, but many of us have said that fir years. Just does not seem to flow all through the range as it should. You might think the a/f ratios are right, but they wont run as good as other 750 carbs.
I want my fair share
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Re: Edelbrock 1411 lean issues on 440
[Re: chermik1999]
#1849551
06/15/15 01:11 PM
06/15/15 01:11 PM
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Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 36,040 Lincoln Nebraska
RapidRobert
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They are non adjustable so only thing I can do it change them. Will have to put a mech gauge on to check oil psi. actually if the preload is off (too little) to the point where it is causing the noise then you'd change the pushrods not the lifters but yes I am thinking lifter issue rather than preload but it needs to be checked & it s an easy check & far easier than a cam breakin procedure
live every 24 hour block of time like it's your last day on earth
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Re: Edelbrock 1411 lean issues on 440
[Re: RapidRobert]
#1849664
06/15/15 03:16 PM
06/15/15 03:16 PM
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Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 61 Alberta, Canada
chermik1999
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They are non adjustable so only thing I can do it change them. Will have to put a mech gauge on to check oil psi. actually if the preload is off (too little) to the point where it is causing the noise then you'd change the pushrods not the lifters but yes I am thinking lifter issue rather than preload but it needs to be checked & it s an easy check & far easier than a cam breakin procedure OK...so how would you do it then? It goes away off idle and doesn't seem to miss so maybe I'm being paranoid? Would miss if the cam lobes were worn. But since the engine has sat for a while evident of the gummed up valves etc, maybe a lifter or two are near collapsed or stuck? You guys have more experience as I'm a SB guy...lol. Just kidding....I'm a novice for this troubleshooting stuff. What if I run it with the covers off. Then apply pressure to a few rockers and see of that makes a difference as you mentioned earlier? I doubt piston slap with no blow by. And its on the top, so rules out bearing especially when it diminishes off idle?
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Re: Edelbrock 1411 lean issues on 440
[Re: chermik1999]
#1849683
06/15/15 03:38 PM
06/15/15 03:38 PM
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Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 36,040 Lincoln Nebraska
RapidRobert
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I'm not really thinking preload but it could be if the pushrods are a bit too short & the cup is too close to the snap ring at TDC then when things get hot the clearance decreases even further till there is contact making in effect a solid lifter sort of. ~.020 is ballpark. put a lifter on base circle and set a 6" thin steel scale "ruler" across the valve cover rails then make a sharpie mark on the edge & slide it over fast till it touches & makes a witness mark on the side of the pushrod then unbolt the rocker shaft evenly till the pushrod JUST stops moving upward (no sideways movement that skews your test) & this is when the lifter cup has reached the snap ring. make another witness mark then measure the distance between the two witness marks & that is the preload distance. its easier to finish removing the whole rocker assy then so you csan remove the pushrod to make it easier to measure it. On the other idling with valve cover(s) off press straight down on each rocker arm on the lifter end with a wooden hammer handle (hurry it is a messy job).
live every 24 hour block of time like it's your last day on earth
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Re: Edelbrock 1411 lean issues on 440
[Re: RapidRobert]
#1850185
06/16/15 01:39 AM
06/16/15 01:39 AM
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Posts: 61 Alberta, Canada
chermik1999
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I'm not really thinking preload but it could be if the pushrods are a bit too short & the cup is too close to the snap ring at TDC then when things get hot the clearance decreases even further till there is contact making in effect a solid lifter sort of. ~.020 is ballpark. put a lifter on base circle and set a 6" thin steel scale "ruler" across the valve cover rails then make a sharpie mark on the edge & slide it over fast till it touches & makes a witness mark on the side of the pushrod then unbolt the rocker shaft evenly till the pushrod JUST stops moving upward (no sideways movement that skews your test) & this is when the lifter cup has reached the snap ring. make another witness mark then measure the distance between the two witness marks & that is the preload distance. its easier to finish removing the whole rocker assy then so you csan remove the pushrod to make it easier to measure it. On the other idling with valve cover(s) off press straight down on each rocker arm on the lifter end with a wooden hammer handle (hurry it is a messy job). Ok Rob...thanks. I'll give either a go. The later is easier for me until I figure out what you just said....lol. Naw...I think I got it. I'll make a tall gasket out of cardboard as we used to do with chevys, and do it that way. Bit messy but I have to find that noise....bugging me. Now I did a bleed down again tonight on #1, and still bad. But it runs so nice...damn. Still not better than 13.0-13.5 ish A/F at idle and 12.0 mid throttle, but a huge improvement than the Edel 750 or 800. So ran a can of seafoam again, let sit then a chew on the highway. Now have some in the tank. Will finally drive it for a few weeks to work that gum out hopefully. If not, guess besides redoing the paint will be at least doing heads this winter....lol. Everything else is done with exception of the mufflers that im still waiting for....Borla....oh well. 68 RR...in Canada, like none around so may as well do it right the first time. Will keep on the report side as to how it all pans out. thanks
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Re: Edelbrock 1411 lean issues on 440
[Re: chermik1999]
#1850249
06/16/15 05:13 AM
06/16/15 05:13 AM
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Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 36,040 Lincoln Nebraska
RapidRobert
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if preload is OK & that is an easy check wheat I'd do is see if I could pinpoint the noisy lifter(s) & dissassemble em then put em back together (keep same innards in same body) as clearances/passages inside are very small & a piece of debris in the oil (#1 reason I like frequent changes) can make it hang up on occaision & I for sure dont care to do a cam breakin procedure for new lifters
live every 24 hour block of time like it's your last day on earth
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Re: Edelbrock 1411 lean issues on 440
[Re: RapidRobert]
#1850328
06/16/15 10:31 AM
06/16/15 10:31 AM
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Posts: 61 Alberta, Canada
chermik1999
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if preload is OK & that is an easy check wheat I'd do is see if I could pinpoint the noisy lifter(s) & dissassemble em then put em back together (keep same innards in same body) as clearances/passages inside are very small & a piece of debris in the oil (#1 reason I like frequent changes) can make it hang up on occaision & I for sure dont care to do a cam breakin procedure for new lifters Good idea. I got my trusty hose in the ear tool...lol going last night. Seems the noise is coming form the right bank. Just above the fuel pump area. So I'll yank off the cover there and try that. But as you say, #1 still has a leaky ex valve too. According to the BOS's/invoices for the car, new motor install, it's likely the motor only has like 8000 miles on it since 2006. If it's true with the odo, then highly likely it's gummed up. So I'll start with lifters first. I'll check straightness of push rods, and try again. Like I mentioned a few posts ago, doing a leak down on #1 for example, I was tapping the valve spring with a rubber mallet. And it was varying in psi readings from 30 - 90 psi. Tells me it's gummed or very bent? But wet comp test has little change. So rings should be fine. I try and report...thanks
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Re: Edelbrock 1411 lean issues on 440
[Re: chermik1999]
#1850899
06/17/15 02:14 AM
06/17/15 02:14 AM
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Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 61 Alberta, Canada
chermik1999
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well that's going to have to wait.
When I got my safety done last week, there was a few item like brakes, wheel cylinder, drums etc. SO I let them do it as I have enough on my plate seeing it would be another 2 weeks for me with my timeline to do it.
So I get it back and I'm hearing scuff noises at the wheels. So I figured since they did rear axle seals, probably screwed up the preload adjuster....some shops forgot what the day was....
So I figured a good time to check the brakes, change the bearings for Green Bearings and pull the 2.76 one legger and put in the 3:55 posi.
So went to pull the shaft and I cant get it out? SUP....well it turns out whoever owned it before somehow jammed the shaft in by some stroke of luck. Like no end play on the slip yoke?????? How the H***lll.
So got it out, did the measurements and got to get the shaft shortened tomorrow. Darn good thing I decided to do this .....could have been a problem....geez. Can you imagine?
So needless to say, I had better get going through this meep meep section by section. One good thing, here in Canada there are none around. So the value for what I have to put into it will always be there.
Stay tuned...oh ya. Running better everyday. And A/F is now at 14.5-14.7 at idle. Kudos to Quick Fuel....nice carb. Also valves must be starting to loosen up maybe??
Be back when I have something new to report on this continuing saga....lol.
cheers
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Re: Edelbrock 1411 lean issues on 440
[Re: RapidRobert]
#1854974
06/23/15 02:50 AM
06/23/15 02:50 AM
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Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 61 Alberta, Canada
chermik1999
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I'm not really thinking preload but it could be if the pushrods are a bit too short & the cup is too close to the snap ring at TDC then when things get hot the clearance decreases even further till there is contact making in effect a solid lifter sort of. ~.020 is ballpark. put a lifter on base circle and set a 6" thin steel scale "ruler" across the valve cover rails then make a sharpie mark on the edge & slide it over fast till it touches & makes a witness mark on the side of the pushrod then unbolt the rocker shaft evenly till the pushrod JUST stops moving upward (no sideways movement that skews your test) & this is when the lifter cup has reached the snap ring. make another witness mark then measure the distance between the two witness marks & that is the preload distance. its easier to finish removing the whole rocker assy then so you csan remove the pushrod to make it easier to measure it. On the other idling with valve cover(s) off press straight down on each rocker arm on the lifter end with a wooden hammer handle (hurry it is a messy job). OK Robert.....I did the last bit you mentioned on the right bank. That's where I have isolated the noise at #2. So as I was pushing down all rockers, the exhaust on #2 would bleed down, start clacking then pump back up after a few secs. The others were fine no change when pressing down So I think it's some bad lifters or slightly bent push rod? Also put seafoam in the crankcase as well and drove for a few days so far. Seems to start loosening up as the engine is running smother if that's possible and the A/F is starting to get closer to 14.0 ish. And I haven't changes the air bleeds yet. I think I'll keep running for a while longer. As for the top end noise, I think I should change the lifters and for sure check the straightness of the push rods..... thoughts
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Re: Edelbrock 1411 lean issues on 440
[Re: chermik1999]
#1855272
06/23/15 04:02 PM
06/23/15 04:02 PM
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Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 36,040 Lincoln Nebraska
RapidRobert
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take the offending lifter(s) out & open em up/clean up/lightly oil/reassemble/reinstall (keep innards in same body)/lifter back in same hole it came out of
live every 24 hour block of time like it's your last day on earth
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Re: Edelbrock 1411 lean issues on 440
[Re: RapidRobert]
#1855605
06/23/15 11:29 PM
06/23/15 11:29 PM
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Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 61 Alberta, Canada
chermik1999
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take the offending lifter(s) out & open em up/clean up/lightly oil/reassemble/reinstall (keep innards in same body)/lifter back in same hole it came out of Will do....also may be fuel pump? heck I don't know, but I just changed the oil a few weeks ago with 10/40 royal purple. Maybe 100 miles.....now it's black again....darn thing is filthy.....so i'll have to flush it s few times as well. I'll get it....with your and others help...lol. Thanks
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Re: Edelbrock 1411 lean issues on 440
[Re: chermik1999]
#1872864
07/18/15 01:49 PM
07/18/15 01:49 PM
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Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 61 Alberta, Canada
chermik1999
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Well...got some time to get back at her. So changed fuel pump and looks to be working well. Now for the good stuff. Back to the valve train noise. So I thought I'd get to the cleaning that we talked about. So pulled #2 intake out and took it apart. Cleaning etc, but had an additional tiny spring that came out of the varsol and didn't know where it went. So no problem, pulled the sister one out to carefully do the same and pay attention this time. This is what I found.... So delema....change lifters only with breakin or cam as well. Lifters look like new and lobes look same. Not too worn as I figured may have 5-8k miles on the engine. Ideas??
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Re: Edelbrock 1411 lean issues on 440
[Re: chermik1999]
#1872879
07/18/15 02:07 PM
07/18/15 02:07 PM
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Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 36,040 Lincoln Nebraska
RapidRobert
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just me I'd go with my orig plan. clean em up/lightly oil/reinstall/preoil. Tho I'd hate to see you have to open it up again if that dont do it
live every 24 hour block of time like it's your last day on earth
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Re: Edelbrock 1411 lean issues on 440
[Re: chermik1999]
#1873180
07/18/15 10:17 PM
07/18/15 10:17 PM
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Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 36,040 Lincoln Nebraska
RapidRobert
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Keep It Simple Sam, the lifters that ain't being replaced put em back in the same hole ( & same innards in same lifter body and mockup the new ones & check by cleaning the lifter/lifter bore with brake kleen then lubing lightly with WD40 then drop the lifter in & raise it up off of the cam lobe with your finger & let loose of it & it should fall back onto the lobe with a resounding "thump" & if not then it is too tight & will not rotate properly & will fubar the breakin which you will be doing (go thru a normal 25 minute cam breakin procedure). I forgot if this is hyd or solid but check the preload/set breakin lash dimention. If solid I set the lash then remove the rocker assys then goop the cam then reinstall the rocker assys as a carefull R&R will not change the adj screw/locknut position & cam/lifter failures are epidemic. Holler how it turns out.
live every 24 hour block of time like it's your last day on earth
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Re: Edelbrock 1411 lean issues on 440
[Re: chermik1999]
#1874279
07/20/15 01:24 PM
07/20/15 01:24 PM
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Posts: 36,040 Lincoln Nebraska
RapidRobert
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I like the one guys' handle (on here) "common sense, the least common of all the senses". Yes swap em all, inner spring out/do "thunk" test & the rest of the nit picking stuff needed to ensure a successfull breakin.
live every 24 hour block of time like it's your last day on earth
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