Suspension Guru's, suggestions for a B-body
#180496
01/01/09 03:28 PM
01/01/09 03:28 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,374
Houston,Tx.
Lee446
OP
pro stock
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OP
pro stock
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,374
Houston,Tx.
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This is for the handling folks, I could use some advice! I have always pretty much been a quarter miler, but I bought a nice 69 Satellite that I would like to make handle better, a nice performing road car, not an SCCA road course car.
Right now the suspension is stock for a 318 car. I plan to rebuild the entire front suspension, 11/16 tie rods, Moog offset bushings for the upper C/A. My plans are to use rubber bushings at this time, had sqeeky poly before but would consider as I'm sure there have been improvements there. I bought a Disc conversion from Dr. Diff with 13" rotors and the 2 piston Cobra calipers and I will stick with the 11" drums on the Dana 60, 3.54 under the back. This car has no sway bar or provisions for one, obviously it will need one front and rear, so who makes the a good bolt-on and what are the best sizes, F/R ? The rear springs are a set of Tri-City launchers, I do plan to Bracket race the car occasionally and I have these springs. What size torsion bars and what shocks would you recommend ? The car came with a set of 17x7f, 17x8r torque thrust 2's with 225-55f, 255-50r hr rated tires and they are new and will stay for now. The car sits a bit lower than stock which is ok, do I need adjustable UCA's or will stock work with the Moogs? The car will have my freshned up, E/headed 493-6BBL/auto that was a mid 11 sec street car in my old b-body.It has a repro 6 BBL lift off hood and headers, so it is a bit lighter than stock over the front end. It also has manual steering. Like all my street cars, it is a bit of a compromise in all things, but for a change, I would like to improve its handling, especially at higher speeds, My old RR always got a bit "light" over 120 on the highway and although I don't drive that way often, it would be nice to do it without white knuckles! So that is the basics, what kind of package do y'all recommend? Thanks, Lee.
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Re: Suspension Guru's, suggestions for a B-body
[Re: Blakcharger440]
#180498
01/01/09 07:49 PM
01/01/09 07:49 PM
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Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 805
San Francisco Bay Area
MrAngry
super stock
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super stock
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 805
San Francisco Bay Area
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I have a '68 Charger that I use as my track car (I'm an instructor w/ NASA/PDA). Keep in mind that one the best things you can do to the big b-bodies is to stiffen them up. My suspension specs are below. I also would not run staggered rim sizes... I do on my Charger but doing it again I would run 18s all around. The car handles VERY well for what it is and with it you absolutely can have a great time at track events and even embarress a few lesser drivers in much better cars - I do it all the time.
Brakes
- Baer Racing 13" Discs (front) / 12" Discs (rear), Baer Racing proportioning valve
- Hydroboost Hydraulic Brake Assist
- Hawk HPS pads f/r
Suspension
- Firm Feel Stage III Steering box, fast ratio pitman, idler, greaseable lower arm shafts, nylon lower arm bushings
- Energy Suspension bushings installed front to rear
- MagnumForce Racing fully adjustable tubular upper control arms
- Hotchkis 1 3/8” Hallow front Sway Bar kit
- Addco 7/8 rear sway bar:
- Mopar Performance 1” pre-lowered Hemi rear leaf springs; 1” block lowering kit for a total of 2” in the rear
- Mopar Performance oversized front .96 torsion bars. Lowered to be just above bump stops.
- Edelbrock Performer IAS Shocks
- XV Motorsports Chassie stiffening kit: Subframe connectors, inner-fender well braces and radiator support.
Drive train
- 727 Torqueflite Transmission. Has a reverse manual valve body shifter mechanism.
- 8 ¾” Suregrip rear with 3.55 gears
- Moser rear axles
- Eaton Performance Detroit tru-trac rear diff.
- Gear Vendors Over/Underdrive Unit w/final 2.76 ratio in OD
- Cheetah SCS reverse pattern cable driven shifter
Wheels/Tire
- 17x8 Boyds front (NITTO NT555s)
- 18x10 Boyds rear (NITTO NT555s)
Never trust a pretty girl... or a lonely midget.
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Re: Suspension Guru's, suggestions for a B-body
[Re: Lee446]
#180499
01/01/09 08:02 PM
01/01/09 08:02 PM
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Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 5,314
Carstairs, Alberta, Canada
dave571
master
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master
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 5,314
Carstairs, Alberta, Canada
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I added rear bars before. They are a great ad on! The last car I did this type of stuff on was an A body. I added a .75" bar on the rear, and changed the front up to 1 1/8". It was awesome. It's been a while, so I don't remember where I got it from. One of those suspension companies that takes a whole page in mopar muscle. Go for whatever thickness you can get. More is better. Also go for the bigger T bars. I think they are a decent price from mp. As for high speed handling, It's mostly in the alignment. Just go for as much caster as you can. More is best. Usually If you can get 3 degrees or more, you will be happy. 
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Re: Suspension Guru's, suggestions for a B-body
[Re: Lee446]
#180501
01/01/09 11:10 PM
01/01/09 11:10 PM
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Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 22,696
Bitopia
jcc
If you can't dazzle em with diamonds..
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If you can't dazzle em with diamonds..
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 22,696
Bitopia
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 : Tb's, anything 1" or larger You need a lot more tire (width and softer) Min QA1 12 way's F&R, forget KYB's I would also go with the nylon LCA bushings Pick Sway bars after the above, and I am not convinced a rear one is needed if front sway bar and rear springsa are correct in the first place Fab any type of front spoiler for improvement on high speed runs Did you mention Frame connectors? Glad this is on our new for 2009 "HP Handling/suspension/brakes" forum, NOT
Reality check, that half the population is smarter then 50% of the people and it's a constantly contested fact.
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Re: Suspension Guru's, suggestions for a B-body
[Re: Blakcharger440]
#180502
01/01/09 11:18 PM
01/01/09 11:18 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,374
Houston,Tx.
Lee446
OP
pro stock
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OP
pro stock
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,374
Houston,Tx.
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Thanks for the replies! I will be welding in subframe connecters, possibly a six point bar, I have'nt made up my mind on that yet. I always add additional welds on the body/frame and reinforce the K-member, and spring mounts. Although it is not as sturdy as the XV rectangular core support, we fabbed a reinforcement plate out of 1/4" plate and welded it in on my 70 GTX, it can't hurt to add one to the Satellite. I bought the lower control arm reinforcement plates from Mancini and will weld them on. Bolt on front sway bars... with no mounts on my LCA's, how do they attach? Will adding a 1/20 over the stock 1/24 manual box be worthwhile? Mr. Angry, thanks for your info, I thought about the Performer IAS shocks, glad to know they actually work. I will google Hotchkis and see what turns up. I am surprised that AutoXr(sp?)has not chimed in. I am interested in everyones working combo's. Thanks again and keep 'em coming!
Last edited by Lee446; 01/01/09 11:24 PM.
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Re: Suspension Guru's, suggestions for a B-body
[Re: Lee446]
#180505
01/02/09 01:21 PM
01/02/09 01:21 PM
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Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 14,889
up yours
Supercuda
About to go away
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About to go away
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 14,889
up yours
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What determines your needs is spring rate and roll couple. You can generically list something, but it's generic, not optimal.
They say there are no such thing as a stupid question.
They say there is always the exception that proves the rule.
Don't be the exception.
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Re: Suspension Guru's, suggestions for a B-body
[Re: Supercuda]
#180506
01/02/09 01:30 PM
01/02/09 01:30 PM
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Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 10,645
Houston, Tx
AlexP
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 10,645
Houston, Tx
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I did the following with my 68 Roadrunner Mopar 1.22" Torsion bars Koni Shocks All Around CAP Tubular UCA's AR Engineering LCA Plates Firm Feel Greasable LCA Pins with Prothane LCA Bushings Firm Feel "Secret" Stage 4 box Stock Sway Bar with Greaseable Poly Bushings Upfront Speedway Motors 200# Leaf springs (not installed) Moog Ball Joints Prothane Strut rod Bushings 11.75" Discs with Firm Feel Carbon Metallic Pads The car drives amazing with those upgrades, but a Set of the Hotckis Sway Bars is in order front and rear when they are available again. The car isn't harsh with those bars, and feels like it would hand some modern performance cars their behind with a step up to modern rubber. 
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Re: Suspension Guru's, suggestions for a B-body
[Re: AlexP]
#180507
01/02/09 09:10 PM
01/02/09 09:10 PM
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Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 805
San Francisco Bay Area
MrAngry
super stock
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super stock
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 805
San Francisco Bay Area
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Hotchkis just came out with an entire suspension package for the b-bodies. http://www.hotchkis.net/c-856-1962-1969-b-body.aspxRight now they only it pieced together but call them and they will give you the full story. I spoke to them at SEMA and was very impressed with they're components... haven't seen any numbers yet though.
Never trust a pretty girl... or a lonely midget.
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Re: Suspension Guru's, suggestions for a B-body
[Re: Lee446]
#180509
01/02/09 10:05 PM
01/02/09 10:05 PM
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Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 22,696
Bitopia
jcc
If you can't dazzle em with diamonds..
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If you can't dazzle em with diamonds..
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 22,696
Bitopia
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In my case Nylon is different and considered a further upgrade from urethane LCA bushings, and nylon requires a different center pin, or whatever its called, not sure of useful life of nylon yet in a daily driver. And AlexP, you have really put a very nice package together 
Reality check, that half the population is smarter then 50% of the people and it's a constantly contested fact.
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Re: Suspension Guru's, suggestions for a B-body
[Re: MrAngry]
#180510
01/03/09 01:13 AM
01/03/09 01:13 AM
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Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 10,645
Houston, Tx
AlexP
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 10,645
Houston, Tx
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Quote:
Hotchkis just came out with an entire suspension package for the b-bodies.
http://www.hotchkis.net/c-856-1962-1969-b-body.aspx
Right now they only it pieced together but call them and they will give you the full story. I spoke to them at SEMA and was very impressed with they're components... haven't seen any numbers yet though.
Its about time. I've been calling their poor techs up for a year now to bug them about a release.
I'm going to buy their sway bars for sure. The rest of the components I already have, or refuse to pay a premium for. I hope they enclose sway bar tabs for cars that didn't have sway bars originally. I have Non-sway LCA's and thats what stopped me from using them before.
I'm saving for Vintage Wheel works to release their 18" wheels over the summer, so I'm saving my pennies for wheels, rear discs and a 3g Hemi swap.
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Re: Suspension Guru's, suggestions for a B-body
[Re: PHJ426]
#180512
09/08/11 12:27 AM
09/08/11 12:27 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 27,468
So Cal
autoxcuda
Too Many Posts
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Too Many Posts
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 27,468
So Cal
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Quote:
Time to bring this old thread back to life, since it pretty much covers handeling for the standard Mopar Torsion bar / leaf spring cars without jumping into a high dollar corvette front end and 3 link rear suspension.
My 72 Road Runner is shedding the super stock springs in the rear in favor of some leafs that will bring it lower to the ground and handle better. That and I scored some used Viper calipers for the front with some 14" SRT8 rotors up front and upgrading the rear brakes to discs also.
I see alot of are running the XHD leafs in the rear, would you run these still or upgrade to a road race spring from Firm Feel or a Hotchkis leaf spring over the XHD's?
I also see Mike Musto (Mr Angry) took 1" out of the XHD spring arch and added a 1" lowering block to lower the car 2" total out in the back. This with a 2" drop front spindle from Magnumforce would get the cg down there.
I have also heard some people are running two left XHD leafs out back to keep the right rear spring the same as the left w/o the extra half leaf that raises the right rear slightly over the left rear of the car, anyone have exerience with that as well?
You want the same spring right and left for handling.
The Hotchkis leaf springs have are setup for handling. They have two stout lower supporting leafs that go all the way to the front eye to prevent wheel hop/wrap-up. But what is especially unique to the Hotchkis springs is an upper leaf that goes to the eye to prevent wheel hop under braking (especially from your brake upgrade). See the first picture below.
The Hotchkis leafs with their lowered front spring hangers, front and rear mid-eyes, low and installed arch get the rear down very low. I'd install them, adjust the front for sane header clearance ~4-5".
I actually put my stock spring hangers in because it was too low. But I have small 25.5" diameter tires.
I don't know what the Firm Feel leaf springs look like. They may have the same features. It's not rocket science.
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Re: Suspension Guru's, suggestions for a B-body
[Re: autoxcuda]
#180513
09/08/11 04:58 AM
09/08/11 04:58 AM
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 4,862
the frozen wastes...
Pale_Roader
Swears too much
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Swears too much
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 4,862
the frozen wastes...
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Quote:
Quote:
Time to bring this old thread back to life, since it pretty much covers handeling for the standard Mopar Torsion bar / leaf spring cars without jumping into a high dollar corvette front end and 3 link rear suspension.
My 72 Road Runner is shedding the super stock springs in the rear in favor of some leafs that will bring it lower to the ground and handle better. That and I scored some used Viper calipers for the front with some 14" SRT8 rotors up front and upgrading the rear brakes to discs also.
I see alot of are running the XHD leafs in the rear, would you run these still or upgrade to a road race spring from Firm Feel or a Hotchkis leaf spring over the XHD's?
I also see Mike Musto (Mr Angry) took 1" out of the XHD spring arch and added a 1" lowering block to lower the car 2" total out in the back. This with a 2" drop front spindle from Magnumforce would get the cg down there.
I have also heard some people are running two left XHD leafs out back to keep the right rear spring the same as the left w/o the extra half leaf that raises the right rear slightly over the left rear of the car, anyone have exerience with that as well?
You want the same spring right and left for handling.
The Hotchkis leaf springs have are setup for handling. They have two stout lower supporting leafs that go all the way to the front eye to prevent wheel hop/wrap-up. But what is especially unique to the Hotchkis springs is an upper leaf that goes to the eye to prevent wheel hop under braking (especially from your brake upgrade). See the first picture below.
The Hotchkis leafs with their lowered front spring hangers, front and rear mid-eyes, low and installed arch get the rear down very low. I'd install them, adjust the front for sane header clearance ~4-5".
I actually put my stock spring hangers in because it was too low. But I have small 25.5" diameter tires.
I don't know what the Firm Feel leaf springs look like. They may have the same features. It's not rocket science.
Did you use the stock shackles pictured...??? I notice that the Hotchkis TVS system doesn't include their shackles. The stock ones look pathetic comparatively. I wonder what is compromised by staying stock? My brothers 'Green Brick' 69 Valiant had those superfancy HD shackles featured in Mopar Action 180 years ago and they looked damn stonky. If i get this system i wont be affording no fancy shackles, but it looks like i could fab up something thats better than stock at least...
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Re: Suspension Guru's, suggestions for a B-body
[Re: Pale_Roader]
#180514
09/08/11 12:58 PM
09/08/11 12:58 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 27,468
So Cal
autoxcuda
Too Many Posts
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Too Many Posts
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 27,468
So Cal
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Quote:
....
Did you use the stock shackles pictured...??? I notice that the Hotchkis TVS system doesn't include their shackles. The stock ones look pathetic comparatively. I wonder what is compromised by staying stock? My brothers 'Green Brick' 69 Valiant had those superfancy HD shackles featured in Mopar Action 180 years ago and they looked damn stonky. If i get this system i wont be affording no fancy shackles, but it looks like i could fab up something thats better than stock at least...
Yes I used the stock shackles. They attach to poly bushings. So the poly bushing will flex some no matter how think the shackle legs are.
On an A-body the shackles are solid stud mounted on one side. Most aftermarket shackles are just thru bolt. So you're going to have some additional looseness right at one of the thru bolt holes.
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