Posted By: Lee446
Suspension Guru's, suggestions for a B-body - 01/01/09 07:28 PM
This is for the handling folks, I could use some advice! I have always pretty much been a quarter miler, but I bought a nice 69 Satellite that I would like to make handle better, a nice performing road car, not an SCCA road course car.
Right now the suspension is stock for a 318 car. I plan to rebuild the entire front suspension, 11/16 tie rods, Moog offset bushings for the upper C/A. My plans are to use rubber bushings at this time, had sqeeky poly before but would consider as I'm sure there have been improvements there. I bought a Disc conversion from Dr. Diff with 13" rotors and the 2 piston Cobra calipers and I will stick with the 11" drums on the Dana 60, 3.54 under the back. This car has no sway bar or provisions for one, obviously it will need one front and rear, so who makes the a good bolt-on and what are the best sizes, F/R ? The rear springs are a set of Tri-City launchers, I do plan to Bracket race the car occasionally and I have these springs. What size torsion bars and what shocks would you recommend ? The car came with a set of 17x7f, 17x8r torque thrust 2's with 225-55f, 255-50r hr rated tires and they are new and will stay for now. The car sits a bit lower than stock which is ok, do I need adjustable UCA's or will stock work with the Moogs? The car will have my freshned up, E/headed 493-6BBL/auto that was a mid 11 sec street car in my old b-body.It has a repro 6 BBL lift off hood and headers, so it is a bit lighter than stock over the front end. It also has manual steering. Like all my street cars, it is a bit of a compromise in all things, but for a change, I would like to improve its handling, especially at higher speeds, My old RR always got a bit "light" over 120 on the highway and although I don't drive that way often, it would be nice to do it without white knuckles! So that is the basics, what kind of package do y'all recommend? Thanks, Lee.
Posted By: Blakcharger440
Re: Suspension Guru's, suggestions for a B-body - 01/01/09 11:08 PM
This reminds me of a project Mopar Action did awhile back of a buildup of a 69 Roadrunner (Project Bold Beeper)that has alot of the parts that you are probably looking to use. I believe they are a sponsor of this site...so take a look at the sponsor page link a the top of this page and you will get a good read of the buildup. Lots of stuff that I am also looking to use on my Charger.
Posted By: MrAngry
Re: Suspension Guru's, suggestions for a B-body - 01/01/09 11:49 PM
I have a '68 Charger that I use as my track car (I'm an instructor w/ NASA/PDA). Keep in mind that one the best things you can do to the big b-bodies is to stiffen them up. My suspension specs are below. I also would not run staggered rim sizes... I do on my Charger but doing it again I would run 18s all around. The car handles VERY well for what it is and with it you absolutely can have a great time at track events and even embarress a few lesser drivers in much better cars - I do it all the time.
Brakes
- Baer Racing 13" Discs (front) / 12" Discs (rear), Baer Racing proportioning valve
- Hydroboost Hydraulic Brake Assist
- Hawk HPS pads f/r
Suspension
- Firm Feel Stage III Steering box, fast ratio pitman, idler, greaseable lower arm shafts, nylon lower arm bushings
- Energy Suspension bushings installed front to rear
- MagnumForce Racing fully adjustable tubular upper control arms
- Hotchkis 1 3/8” Hallow front Sway Bar kit
- Addco 7/8 rear sway bar:
- Mopar Performance 1” pre-lowered Hemi rear leaf springs; 1” block lowering kit for a total of 2” in the rear
- Mopar Performance oversized front .96 torsion bars. Lowered to be just above bump stops.
- Edelbrock Performer IAS Shocks
- XV Motorsports Chassie stiffening kit: Subframe connectors, inner-fender well braces and radiator support.
Drive train
- 727 Torqueflite Transmission. Has a reverse manual valve body shifter mechanism.
- 8 ¾” Suregrip rear with 3.55 gears
- Moser rear axles
- Eaton Performance Detroit tru-trac rear diff.
- Gear Vendors Over/Underdrive Unit w/final 2.76 ratio in OD
- Cheetah SCS reverse pattern cable driven shifter
Wheels/Tire
- 17x8 Boyds front (NITTO NT555s)
- 18x10 Boyds rear (NITTO NT555s)
Posted By: dave571
Re: Suspension Guru's, suggestions for a B-body - 01/02/09 12:02 AM
I added rear bars before. They are a great ad on!
The last car I did this type of stuff on was an A body. I added a .75" bar on the rear, and changed the front up to 1 1/8". It was awesome.
It's been a while, so I don't remember where I got it from. One of those suspension companies that takes a whole page in mopar muscle.
Go for whatever thickness you can get. More is better.
Also go for the bigger T bars. I think they are a decent price from mp.
As for high speed handling, It's mostly in the alignment. Just go for as much caster as you can. More is best. Usually If you can get 3 degrees or more, you will be happy.
Posted By: Blakcharger440
Re: Suspension Guru's, suggestions for a B-body - 01/02/09 02:43 AM
Can you still buy sway bars for B body mopars from Hotchkis?
Posted By: jcc
Re: Suspension Guru's, suggestions for a B-body - 01/02/09 03:10 AM
:
Tb's, anything 1" or larger
You need a lot more tire (width and softer)
Min QA1 12 way's F&R, forget KYB's
I would also go with the nylon LCA bushings
Pick Sway bars after the above, and I am not convinced a rear one is needed if front sway bar and rear springsa are correct in the first place
Fab any type of front spoiler for improvement on high speed runs
Did you mention Frame connectors?
Glad this is on our new for 2009 "HP Handling/suspension/brakes" forum, NOT
Posted By: Lee446
Re: Suspension Guru's, suggestions for a B-body - 01/02/09 03:18 AM
Thanks for the replies! I will be welding in subframe connecters, possibly a six point bar, I have'nt made up my mind on that yet. I always add additional welds on the body/frame and reinforce the K-member, and spring mounts. Although it is not as sturdy as the XV rectangular core support, we fabbed a reinforcement plate out of 1/4" plate and welded it in on my 70 GTX, it can't hurt to add one to the Satellite. I bought the lower control arm reinforcement plates from Mancini and will weld them on. Bolt on front sway bars... with no mounts on my LCA's, how do they attach? Will adding a 1/20 over the stock 1/24 manual box be worthwhile? Mr. Angry, thanks for your info, I thought about the Performer IAS shocks, glad to know they actually work. I will google Hotchkis and see what turns up. I am surprised that AutoXr(sp?)has not chimed in. I am interested in everyones working combo's. Thanks again and keep 'em coming!
Posted By: RaiderLefty
Re: Suspension Guru's, suggestions for a B-body - 01/02/09 03:57 AM
I'm in the process right now of finishing up updating/upgrading the suspension on my '68 RR and here's what I've done so far:
All new poly bushings from Firm Feel front to rear
Tubular UCAs from Firm Feel
Tubular LCAs from Cap Auto Products
11/16" tie rods ends from Firm Feel
New idler/pitman arms from FFI
1-1/8" front sway bar
1.10" torsion bars
3/4" Addco rear sway bar
Front brakes are Wilwood 6-piston setup with drilled/slotted rotors.
Rear brakes are Wilwood 4-pistons with drilled/slotted rotors.
F/R shocks are 1-way adjustable Varishocks.
Front tires are Nitto 255/45/18s on a 9" wheel and rears are Nitto 305/40/18s on a 10" wheel.
The only thing I can't tell you right now is how the setup feels. I've got everything reassembled except for the rear brakes and new Wilwood M/C. Hopefully I'll be able to provide some real driving feedback in the next several weeks.
Good luck!
Posted By: Lee446
Re: Suspension Guru's, suggestions for a B-body - 01/02/09 05:13 PM
Well, Hotchkis does not list anything for old mopars, just late model. Addco and Hellwig both offer 1-1/8 frt. and either 3/4 or 7/8" rear. I wonder what determines what size rear bar? There is surprisingly little info on the manufactures sites to help determine what you need.
Posted By: Supercuda
Re: Suspension Guru's, suggestions for a B-body - 01/02/09 05:21 PM
What determines your needs is spring rate and roll couple. You can generically list something, but it's generic, not optimal.
Posted By: AlexP
Re: Suspension Guru's, suggestions for a B-body - 01/02/09 05:30 PM
I did the following with my 68 Roadrunner
Mopar 1.22" Torsion bars
Koni Shocks All Around
CAP Tubular UCA's
AR Engineering LCA Plates
Firm Feel Greasable LCA Pins with Prothane LCA Bushings
Firm Feel "Secret" Stage 4 box
Stock Sway Bar with Greaseable Poly Bushings Upfront
Speedway Motors 200# Leaf springs (not installed)
Moog Ball Joints
Prothane Strut rod Bushings
11.75" Discs with Firm Feel Carbon Metallic Pads
The car drives amazing with those upgrades, but a Set of the Hotckis Sway Bars is in order front and rear when they are available again.
The car isn't harsh with those bars, and feels like it would hand some modern performance cars their behind with a step up to modern rubber.
Posted By: MrAngry
Re: Suspension Guru's, suggestions for a B-body - 01/03/09 01:10 AM
Hotchkis just came out with an entire suspension package for the b-bodies.
http://www.hotchkis.net/c-856-1962-1969-b-body.aspxRight now they only it pieced together but call them and they will give you the full story. I spoke to them at SEMA and was very impressed with they're components... haven't seen any numbers yet though.
Posted By: Lee446
Re: Suspension Guru's, suggestions for a B-body - 01/03/09 01:13 AM
I see people referring to Nylon LCA bushings, but I assume they mean Polyurethane, correct? I thought about going to the tubular upper control arms but read that you can achive the same results by using the Moog offset bushings. Any comments on that?
Posted By: jcc
Re: Suspension Guru's, suggestions for a B-body - 01/03/09 02:05 AM
In my case Nylon is different and considered a further upgrade from urethane LCA bushings, and nylon requires a different center pin, or whatever its called, not sure of useful life of nylon yet in a daily driver.
And AlexP, you have really put a very nice package together
Posted By: PHJ426
Re: Suspension Guru's, suggestions for a B-body - 09/08/11 03:20 AM
Time to bring this old thread back to life, since it pretty much covers handeling for the standard Mopar Torsion bar / leaf spring cars without jumping into a high dollar corvette front end and 3 link rear suspension.
My 72 Road Runner is shedding the super stock springs in the rear in favor of some leafs that will bring it lower to the ground and handle better. That and I scored some used Viper calipers for the front with some 14" SRT8 rotors up front and upgrading the rear brakes to discs also.
I see alot of are running the XHD leafs in the rear, would you run these still or upgrade to a road race spring from Firm Feel or a Hotchkis leaf spring over the XHD's?
I also see Mike Musto (Mr Angry) took 1" out of the XHD spring arch and added a 1" lowering block to lower the car 2" total out in the back. This with a 2" drop front spindle from Magnumforce would get the cg down there.
I have also heard some people are running two left XHD leafs out back to keep the right rear spring the same as the left w/o the extra half leaf that raises the right rear slightly over the left rear of the car, anyone have exerience with that as well?
Posted By: Hotchkis
Re: Suspension Guru's, suggestions for a B-body - 09/13/11 01:22 AM
Our heavy duty shackles are really nice pieces with all the right qualities to withstand some serious abuse. The stock ones are decent for stock vehicles but they do flex when pushed hard and many old ones are rusted badly, which also weakens them. These are made from .025” steel and finished in black powercoat to keep them protected from the elements. We also specially machine the bolts so they are duplicated to the stock specs.
