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Bracket engine, What would you build and why?
#1796021
04/04/15 12:07 AM
04/04/15 12:07 AM
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Joined: Apr 2015
Posts: 15
Delaware,USA
1jeff
OP
member
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OP
member
Joined: Apr 2015
Posts: 15
Delaware,USA
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New guy to the forum, hello all!
I bought a 70 Duster, older Allston chassis super pro bracket car late season 2011 and the engine blew fall of 2012. BME rods with 532 1/2 passes lol, should have known better. I'm now in the planning stages for a new engine/set up.
The car ran 10.0x in good air. 440 close if not stock 452's 280 @ .050 590 lift cam, 2560 with me in it, 4.56 gears, glide, 14x32 goodyears. The car was really consistent to 1,000 ft. but would sometimes throw me a number or 2 the last 320. Video tapped the tach, appx. 5,000 at the hit, shift at 5,600, trapped around 6,500.
I know there are many variables to inconsistency on the big end. I have to build a engine so I would like to spend the money wisely.
Big cube engine = more torque each power stroke, smaller cube = more power strokes? Is a heavier car less affected by wind changes on the top end? Advantage to having a set up that runs better on the back half than it does the front half?
Thanks in advance for any input!
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Re: Bracket engine, What would you build and why?
[Re: 1jeff]
#1796022
04/04/15 12:41 AM
04/04/15 12:41 AM
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
MR_P_BODY
Master
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Master
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
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More than likely it wasnt the engine.. might have been the fuel supply system... lite cars are ALWAYS best.. they are easy to make fast and easier on parts.... welcome EDIT Since its already set up for a big block stay with that... some of your parts might work on the new build 
Last edited by MR_P_BODY; 04/04/15 12:47 AM.
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Re: Bracket engine, What would you build and why?
[Re: 1jeff]
#1796023
04/04/15 12:49 AM
04/04/15 12:49 AM
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Joined: May 2004
Posts: 12,394
Taxes & Virus's R-US, NY
Dragula
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 12,394
Taxes & Virus's R-US, NY
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Best bang for the buck....400 or 440 stroker, Indy EZ heads, and 440 Source Stroker kit, and a girdle with ARP studs.
That is the combo I run at 512 cubes on pump gas, its an animal....We make 730hp on pump gas with it....
Last edited by Dragula; 04/04/15 12:51 AM.
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Re: Bracket engine, What would you build and why?
[Re: 1jeff]
#1796024
04/04/15 12:59 AM
04/04/15 12:59 AM
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Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 7,506
Az
Crizila
master
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master
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 7,506
Az
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It's all about consistency with bracket racing. IMO, big inch NA motor shifting at lower ( but more consistent ) rpm's. Good solid back half with big tires. Stay in the 10's or 11's. Bigger /heavier cars are less effected by cross winds and often have more consistent ( but slower ) 60 ft times. Most consistent winners in bracket racing usually run about 1/2 second slower than their car is capable of running. Different mind set for real bracket racers. I could never quit go there - always wanted to go as fast as I could. Hence, always making changes. A breeding ground for inconsistency.
Fastest 300
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Re: Bracket engine, What would you build and why?
[Re: pittsburghracer]
#1796028
04/04/15 03:00 AM
04/04/15 03:00 AM
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Joined: May 2003
Posts: 13,198
aZLiViN
J_BODY
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 13,198
aZLiViN
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Quote:
With the above listed parts if your not running VERY low 9's something is wrong. These are great times for us Mopar lovers. 
 come to Vegas and tell me that!!
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Re: Bracket engine, What would you build and why?
[Re: 1jeff]
#1796029
04/04/15 03:25 AM
04/04/15 03:25 AM
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Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 7,506
Az
Crizila
master
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master
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 7,506
Az
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Quote:
New engine will be a big block for sure. I was realy thinking indy ez heads, but the new trick flows have peaked my interest. Might have to wait and see how they actually compare.
Like I said in the original post, I'm in the planning stages. I would love to have had another season to gather information, but it didn't work that way. Just got my feet wet lol.
Bracket racing is a lot more competitive than it was 20 years ago, in my mind. I don't think you can afford to leave anything on the table.
Thanks again for the input and keep it coming!
For sure on your last 2 sentences, and having a consistent car is only half of it. Almost gotta race on a full time basis ( like every weekend)to even have a chance out here. Forget about having a real fast car. That's not a part of the equation. Consistent reaction times under .030 might get you 2-3 rounds and your car better run with in .050 of your dial - every run. Did I mention a weather station. You will need one. You will see 4-5 guys that will dominate your group / track. It's their life and they live at the track. Happiness to them is not a low ET. IT's the same ET. You are ether very dedicated or your fodder. No in-betweens. Don't mean to paint a dismal picture, but that's what bracket racing is these days. No, you can't leave anything on the table.
Fastest 300
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Re: Bracket engine, What would you build and why?
[Re: 1jeff]
#1796031
04/04/15 10:24 AM
04/04/15 10:24 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 10,010
Frostbitefalls MN (Rocky&Bullw...
gregsdart
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 10,010
Frostbitefalls MN (Rocky&Bullw...
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I would go low deck, 451 set up for pump gas with aluminum small port heads. Pretty much everything you now run (driveline) will work, plus it will be cheap to race. Very low maintenance , consistent and 10.00 numbers.
8..603 156 mph best, 2905 lbs 549, indy 572-13, alky
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Re: Bracket engine, What would you build and why?
[Re: slantzilla]
#1796032
04/04/15 10:29 AM
04/04/15 10:29 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 10,010
Frostbitefalls MN (Rocky&Bullw...
gregsdart
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 10,010
Frostbitefalls MN (Rocky&Bullw...
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Quote:
As big of a motor as you can possibly afford, on alcohol. 
I agree on the alky, but believe in staying smaller for your deal. Alky will allow you to run the motor warm, so there is less draw on the cooling system and electrical, plus consistency. E85 would be my choice. Just be sure and buy a test kit, and a buy it by the barrel when you find a consistent batch.
8..603 156 mph best, 2905 lbs 549, indy 572-13, alky
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Re: Bracket engine, What would you build and why?
[Re: Crizila]
#1796033
04/04/15 11:44 AM
04/04/15 11:44 AM
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Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 9,847
MI, usa
dvw
master
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master
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 9,847
MI, usa
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Quote:
Quote:
New engine will be a big block for sure. I was realy thinking indy ez heads, but the new trick flows have peaked my interest. Might have to wait and see how they actually compare.
Like I said in the original post, I'm in the planning stages. I would love to have had another season to gather information, but it didn't work that way. Just got my feet wet lol.
Bracket racing is a lot more competitive than it was 20 years ago, in my mind. I don't think you can afford to leave anything on the table.
Thanks again for the input and keep it coming!
For sure on your last 2 sentences, and having a consistent car is only half of it. Almost gotta race on a full time basis ( like every weekend)to even have a chance out here. Forget about having a real fast car. That's not a part of the equation. Consistent reaction times under .030 might get you 2-3 rounds and your car better run with in .050 of your dial - every run. Did I mention a weather station. You will need one. You will see 4-5 guys that will dominate your group / track. It's their life and they live at the track. Happiness to them is not a low ET. IT's the same ET. You are ether very dedicated or your fodder. No in-betweens. Don't mean to paint a dismal picture, but that's what bracket racing is these days. No, you can't leave anything on the table.
My car is a relatively quick and heavy car (9.20's @3340) with a big motor. Running only 13 events last year I won 3 and went to the semis 2 times. It is handicapped with a foot brake and 10.5x29 tires. So it can be done.
Doug
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Re: Bracket engine, What would you build and why?
[Re: dvw]
#1796035
04/04/15 12:03 PM
04/04/15 12:03 PM
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Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 7,506
Az
Crizila
master
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master
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 7,506
Az
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Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
New engine will be a big block for sure. I was realy thinking indy ez heads, but the new trick flows have peaked my interest. Might have to wait and see how they actually compare.
Like I said in the original post, I'm in the planning stages. I would love to have had another season to gather information, but it didn't work that way. Just got my feet wet lol.
Bracket racing is a lot more competitive than it was 20 years ago, in my mind. I don't think you can afford to leave anything on the table.
Thanks again for the input and keep it coming!
For sure on your last 2 sentences, and having a consistent car is only half of it. Almost gotta race on a full time basis ( like every weekend)to even have a chance out here. Forget about having a real fast car. That's not a part of the equation. Consistent reaction times under .030 might get you 2-3 rounds and your car better run with in .050 of your dial - every run. Did I mention a weather station. You will need one. You will see 4-5 guys that will dominate your group / track. It's their life and they live at the track. Happiness to them is not a low ET. IT's the same ET. You are ether very dedicated or your fodder. No in-betweens. Don't mean to paint a dismal picture, but that's what bracket racing is these days. No, you can't leave anything on the table.
My car is a relatively quick and heavy car (9.20's @3340) with a big motor. Running only 13 events last year I won 3 and went to the semis 2 times. It is handicapped with a foot brake and 10.5x29 tires. So it can be done.
Doug
Pretty awesome. Out here, if you can end the season in the top 10 you are in an elite group. You get a "top ten" tee shirt - for free . Motor: I like the low deck ( 400 ) idea, but would punch to 498"s. Easy 10's with a mild roller and mild ported eddy's.
Fastest 300
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Re: Bracket engine, What would you build and why?
[Re: 1jeff]
#1796036
04/04/15 01:25 PM
04/04/15 01:25 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 15,439
Val-haul-ass... eventually
BradH
Taking time off to work on my car
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Taking time off to work on my car
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 15,439
Val-haul-ass... eventually
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Quote:
The car ran 10.0x in good air.
You don't mention if that's still your performance expectation, or if you want to go significantly faster (assuming the car's legal for 9.99 & quicker).
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Re: Bracket engine, What would you build and why?
[Re: BradH]
#1796037
04/04/15 02:02 PM
04/04/15 02:02 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 19,372
Las Vegas
Al_Alguire
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 19,372
Las Vegas
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Most of you guys race where your WORST air is about as good as we get. The BIGGEST factor is the Barometer. As you go up the TRUE barometer goes down(we generally see mid to high 27ish barometers which would send the east coast guys to the hardware store for plywood and supplies thinking a hurricane is coming.), just no way around that period. Just simple science, not rocket science. Guess it is something flatlanders just don't get. Then again they do not get to wake up every morning surrounded by 360 of mountains either.
AS for the question at hand. A 451 or 511, lots of off the shelf parts for both combos and plenty of proven combos out there.
"I am not ashamed to confess I am ignorant of what I do not know."
"It's never wrong to do the right thing"
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Re: Bracket engine, What would you build and why?
[Re: Crizila]
#1796039
04/04/15 03:28 PM
04/04/15 03:28 PM
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Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 2,652
Stuttgart, Arkansas
rickseeman
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 2,652
Stuttgart, Arkansas
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A pump gas 512 stroker kit from 440 source would be a good replacement for what you have. Aluminum heads would be nice. I've never had a consistent car so I can't help you there.
2011 Drag Pak Challenger
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We aren't some east or west coast super tracks here either. 
