lifting body to install engine from below
#1783717
03/19/15 04:07 PM
03/19/15 04:07 PM
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Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 7,365 Iowa
burdar
OP
Owen's Dad
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OP
Owen's Dad
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 7,365
Iowa
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This worked OK, to remove the engine but as you can see, the cherry picker's legs are in the way. To get the engine back in, I was going to make an extension out of angle iron to get the cherry picker out away from the body. I was going to bolt some angle iron to the bumper mounts and then a piece of angle iron in between those to lift against. I've seen people do this before. I need a recommendation on what size and thickness of angle iron to get. 1 1/2" wide? 2" wide? 1/8" thick? 1/4" thick? Any suggestions? Thanks
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Re: lifting body to install engine from below
[Re: JMCFAN]
#1783720
03/19/15 04:39 PM
03/19/15 04:39 PM
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Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 7,365 Iowa
burdar
OP
Owen's Dad
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OP
Owen's Dad
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 7,365
Iowa
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Quote:
http://store.uscartool.com/uni-lift-unibody-front-end-lifting-tool.html
That's basically what I want to do but I'm going to use angle iron. I just want a recommendation of what size to use. I used a spare set of bumper brackets to install the engine in my Challenger. I've seen people use angle iron before.
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Re: lifting body to install engine from below
[Re: DaytonaTurbo]
#1783723
03/19/15 04:51 PM
03/19/15 04:51 PM
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Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 7,365 Iowa
burdar
OP
Owen's Dad
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OP
Owen's Dad
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 7,365
Iowa
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I just don't know how strong angle iron is. Is 1/8" thick strong enough if I'm going to make the arms roughly 30" long?
Thanks Gary...
Last edited by burdar; 03/19/15 04:53 PM.
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Re: lifting body to install engine from below
[Re: ebodyseast]
#1783726
03/19/15 05:38 PM
03/19/15 05:38 PM
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Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 2,070 CA
crackedback
top fuel
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top fuel
Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 2,070
CA
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2x2 .125 angle 2x2 .125 square tube 2 bolts/nuts Drill 6 holes I had to lift the engine and car with this set up because of the engine/car angle wouldn't allow it to settle at K frame. Long bolts run in, picked up, more blocks under pan. No problems at all.
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Re: lifting body to install engine from below
[Re: crackedback]
#1783728
03/19/15 08:51 PM
03/19/15 08:51 PM
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Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 2,404 Lee Co. Fla.
5carguy
top fuel
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top fuel
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 2,404
Lee Co. Fla.
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Quote:
2x2 .125 angle
2x2 .125 square tube
2 bolts/nuts
Drill 6 holes
[image]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v655/crackedback/70%20Dart%20340%20EK2/Engineinstall.jpg[/i
I had to lift the engine and car with this set up because of the engine/car angle wouldn't allow it to settle at K frame. Long bolts run in, picked up, more blocks under pan. No problems at all.
This is a nice install.Inexpensive and easy to make.Good job.
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Re: lifting body to install engine from below
[Re: skicker]
#1783730
03/19/15 10:12 PM
03/19/15 10:12 PM
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Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 11,836 Florida
mopar346
Let me tell ya about fat chicks!
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Let me tell ya about fat chicks!
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 11,836
Florida
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I think I used 1/4 but I can check when I get home Saturday. 2 pieces coming off the bumper bolts (both bolts) with a piece going across with 2 bolts on each side. Not the best picture but you get the idea how they were turned.
Careful, your character's showing!
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Re: lifting body to install engine from below
[Re: mopar346]
#1783731
03/19/15 10:13 PM
03/19/15 10:13 PM
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Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 11,836 Florida
mopar346
Let me tell ya about fat chicks!
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Let me tell ya about fat chicks!
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 11,836
Florida
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I gotta learn to take better pictures.
Careful, your character's showing!
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Re: lifting body to install engine from below
[Re: mopar346]
#1783733
03/19/15 10:47 PM
03/19/15 10:47 PM
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 477 mr norms avenue
5571
mopar
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mopar
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 477
mr norms avenue
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I have a four post lift, I was thinking of doing the install with that, lowering the car over it. I can see how you can get access to the K frame bolts at ground level, but how are you guys getting to holding up the trans? When you have to raise the car to get the trans brace? Wont the engine tilt back on the motor mounts and hit the firewall?
67 hemi GTX silver 4spd, 70 cuda convert 340 4spd, 71 cuda 340 4spd (Curious Yellow, white billboards/interior), 70 Mr Norm's Challenger 440 4spd
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Re: lifting body to install engine from below
[Re: 5571]
#1783734
03/20/15 12:00 AM
03/20/15 12:00 AM
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Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 1,800 South Lyon MI
sleddinfool
top fuel
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top fuel
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 1,800
South Lyon MI
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I put my engine and trans in from the bottom. Looks like Burdars garage may be a little different then mine though. I jus happened to pick up a 2500 pound atv winch new in the box for $20.00 at a garage sale. Bolted it to a 2x8 piece of ash, supported the roof rafters/joist with 2x4's to the floor. used another 2x4 between the frame rails under the radiator area and hoisted away.. Worked very well. I used 2x6s stacked on a set of snowmobile dollies and strapped engine and trans down to the dollies with a ratchet straps. I had engine and trans in in about 15 minutes. Kevin
71 gtx.....
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Re: lifting body to install engine from below
[Re: FJR doc]
#1783738
03/20/15 12:33 AM
03/20/15 12:33 AM
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Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 2,070 CA
crackedback
top fuel
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top fuel
Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 2,070
CA
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Quote:
I bought brackets from AutoTwirler that attached to the front bumper bracket mounting holes. Purchased some scrap 4x4 steel tubing from a scrap yard. Worked great for engine removal and hopefully as well for installation.
Yep,
No need to spend excessive $ on something so simple to solve and be absolutely safe.
Want an engine dolly, harbor freight 1K moving dolly, another cheap smaller one for under the trans pan and a small piece of plywood to fill the open areas of dolly and some carriage bolts/nuts.
My lift bar is possibly available to be borrowed/rented.
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Re: lifting body to install engine from below
[Re: 5571]
#1783739
03/20/15 12:57 AM
03/20/15 12:57 AM
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Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 21,318 Manitoba, Canada
DaytonaTurbo
Too Many Posts
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Too Many Posts
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 21,318
Manitoba, Canada
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Quote:
I have a four post lift, I was thinking of doing the install with that, lowering the car over it. I can see how you can get access to the K frame bolts at ground level, but how are you guys getting to holding up the trans? When you have to raise the car to get the trans brace? Wont the engine tilt back on the motor mounts and hit the firewall?
Last time I put a ratchet strap under to hold up the trans while I lifted the car to get the jack under the trans tail.
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Re: lifting body to install engine from below
[Re: crackedback]
#1783741
03/20/15 01:22 AM
03/20/15 01:22 AM
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Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 1,653 Cut and Shoot, TX
kentj340
top fuel
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top fuel
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 1,653
Cut and Shoot, TX
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Seems to me that a tiny bit of engineering is in order. If the rear axle is used as the fulcrum, the weight of the front of the car is going to be some fraction of the total car weight, maybe several hundred lbs, especially if the fenders and hood are on the car. But if you simply move the fulcrum to the forward spring brackets, the front of the car will weigh much less. And if you move the fulcrum a few more inches forward, the front of the car will weigh zero or less than zero, meaning the car will actually tilt backwards.
When I can lift the front of the car with my own muscles and without too much effort, I figure the fulcrum is in the right place for a safe lift with an engine crane or whatever.
If you don't see two dolphins, you need a vacation.
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Re: lifting body to install engine from below
[Re: kentj340]
#1783742
03/20/15 01:40 AM
03/20/15 01:40 AM
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Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 2,070 CA
crackedback
top fuel
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top fuel
Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 2,070
CA
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Quote:
Seems to me that a tiny bit of engineering is in order. If the rear axle is used as the fulcrum, the weight of the front of the car is going to be some fraction of the total car weight, maybe several hundred lbs, especially if the fenders and hood are on the car. But if you simply move the fulcrum to the forward spring brackets, the front of the car will weigh much less. And if you move the fulcrum a few more inches forward, the front of the car will weigh zero or less than zero, meaning the car will actually tilt backwards.
When I can lift the front of the car with my own muscles and without too much effort, I figure the fulcrum is in the right place for a safe lift with an engine crane or whatever.
You'd be surprised what a spare tire or two and a 100# tool box in the trunk will do to the distribution and actual force required to lift the front end. It's minimal. Nice illustration!
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Re: lifting body to install engine from below
[Re: Evil Spirit]
#1783746
03/20/15 02:21 PM
03/20/15 02:21 PM
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Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 2,070 CA
crackedback
top fuel
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top fuel
Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 2,070
CA
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Quote:
Just remember whatever you engineer to lift the car shell up to install the engine package also may need to support the weight of the assembled front end when you are through. It may have to hold of lift the weight of the complete front end to remove the engine cradle to get the car on stands or the tires. Same for the engine/x-member cradle. You need to design the cradle or the body lift brackets to handle the total weight of the mated package, not just the weight of the single pieces.
A floor jack under each frame rail/t-bar crossmember will lift the front, no need to stress the lift bars unless you don't have an alternative.
I jacked mine back up, then reinstalled a set of bumper bolt mount body dollies.
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Re: lifting body to install engine from below
[Re: burdar]
#1783748
03/22/15 02:25 AM
03/22/15 02:25 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 27,466 So Cal
autoxcuda
Too Many Posts
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Too Many Posts
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 27,466
So Cal
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Quote:
The engine is in. The 2" x 1/8" angle worked just fine to lift the car. I had the rear supported on body stands at the forward leaf spring mount. There was very little weight on the front. I would however recommend using 1/4" angle. Once the engine was bolted up, I wanted to see what the 1/8" could handle and lifted the car up with the cherry picker. The angle showed a little bit of deflection. It held the weight OK but 1/4" angle would be nice insurance.
Are you just temporarily putting the engine in for mock up? Why are you putting it in before the body is painted?
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Re: lifting body to install engine from below
[Re: kentj340]
#1783751
03/23/15 12:00 AM
03/23/15 12:00 AM
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Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 8,716 Baltimore/Denver
64Post
master
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master
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 8,716
Baltimore/Denver
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Quote:
Seems to me that a tiny bit of engineering is in order. If the rear axle is used as the fulcrum, the weight of the front of the car is going to be some fraction of the total car weight, maybe several hundred lbs, especially if the fenders and hood are on the car. But if you simply move the fulcrum to the forward spring brackets, the front of the car will weigh much less. And if you move the fulcrum a few more inches forward, the front of the car will weigh zero or less than zero, meaning the car will actually tilt backwards.
When I can lift the front of the car with my own muscles and without too much effort, I figure the fulcrum is in the right place for a safe lift with an engine crane or whatever.
Looks solid on paper but... the farther forward you move the fulcrum (jack stands) the higher you need to jack the car up so the gas tank and bumper don't hit the ground. That increase the angle the frame sits on the jack stands raising the risk of the jack stands walking or completely kicking out. Essentially, you're introducing a side load onto the jack stands. Using the axle as a pivot point introduces no such load as the weight is carried through the CL of the jack stands.
This is a simple process. There is no need to over-engineer or introduce risk into the equation. As mentioned, a couple hundred pounds of weight in the trunk works wonders for over all counter balance, although I've never used CW myself.
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