Cummings Powered, what years to avoid
#1774671
03/08/15 11:19 AM
03/08/15 11:19 AM
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Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 1,520 West Palm Beach, Florida
Copper Dart
OP
pro stock
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OP
pro stock
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 1,520
West Palm Beach, Florida
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i have been considering buying a Tow Truck/occasional driver with the Cummings engine. what are the years to avoid and what are the transmissions to avoid. i would prefer auto but thats barely worth mentioning because stick would be just fine too. ideally and extended cab short bed 2WD light colored truck.
What say you?
Copper
Common sense, the least common of all the senses. Mom.
For fear of ridicule, society stifles creativity. Ricky Valdes
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Re: Cummings Powered, what years to avoid
[Re: chrisf]
#1774675
03/08/15 04:41 PM
03/08/15 04:41 PM
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Joined: May 2003
Posts: 1,751 Graham, WA
Polarapete
top fuel
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top fuel
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 1,751
Graham, WA
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My only experience with the CTD was with my 2002 QC Short Bed 2WD. I was the 2nd owner and it had a new South Bend clutch matched to a 6 speed manual and the HO (for the time) 5.9. It also had a complete set of gauges, Boost, EGT and Fuel Pressure at the VP44. I would still have it but, I wrecked the truck in October 2012. The air bags never deployed? It was totaled by State Farm???WTF...I bought it back and sold it 4 months later with all the extra wheels/tires and accessories that I had acquired over the years, to a young man that rebuilt it. It was a good deal for him and he is still driving and loving it. During the time that I owned it, I changed the VP44 injector pump for a rebuilt, relocated the OEM lift pump to the frame, changed that lift pump to a FASS DDRP, put a short shift kit in the transmission and put in a 4" MBRP Stainless Exhaust system. I did all the maintenance myself. I would have rebuilt it and kept it, but my wife could not drive it (Ergonomics all wrong for her) and I had to have new knee after the accident, so it would have sat for a long time in my driveway I would recommend the 24 valve 98.5 through 2002 models for the most performance for the least investment.
1986 Dodge Ramcharger 440 2wd, Bracket Racer Under Construction 1998 Ram 2500 QuadCab, new daily driver. 2008 Honda Element 2014 Carry-On 7x14 Cargo Trailer
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Re: Cummings Powered, what years to avoid
[Re: Polarapete]
#1774676
03/09/15 10:06 AM
03/09/15 10:06 AM
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Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 1,520 West Palm Beach, Florida
Copper Dart
OP
pro stock
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OP
pro stock
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 1,520
West Palm Beach, Florida
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Thanks for the schooling. Cummins powered tow/driver. I'm not looking for all out performance, just reliability and ease of maintenance to pull a 28' inclosed. The truck will sit parked a lot till show/race time or the usual homeowner run to the hardware store. Early trucks, what would be the best transmission? I have a limited budget so newer trucks are out. What's the first years inter-cooled Any bad manual trans to avoid? Thanks to all chiming in Copper
Last edited by Copper Dart; 03/09/15 10:10 AM.
Common sense, the least common of all the senses. Mom.
For fear of ridicule, society stifles creativity. Ricky Valdes
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Re: Cummins Powered, what years to avoid
[Re: Copper Dart]
#1774677
03/09/15 10:36 AM
03/09/15 10:36 AM
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Joined: May 2003
Posts: 3,266 Pyeongtaek, South Korea
69HemiGTX
master
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master
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 3,266
Pyeongtaek, South Korea
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The intercooled 1st Gen appeared as a 91.5 model. The manual trucks used a Getrag G360 transmission. It's a solid performer if you don't bomb the crap out of it. For autos, the early trucks got non-overdrive 727s. Since they had no overdrive, they got Dana 61/71 diffs with 3.07s front and rear, respectively. The overdrive trans came out around the same time as the intercooler. I'm not 100% sure of the timing, but I know it's close. There are a lot of little differences between the trucks, too. A lot of 1st Gen guys will combine parts from each to get what they say is a better product. I haven't researched those claims too much, so I have no idea if they're true. I do know that some guys will swap the ultra tall gear diffs under an intercooled truck to make a sweet highway hauler, but they obviously give up some grunt for towing.
I own a 91.5 with a G360, but its drivetrain is going into my 78 crew cab. I also own a very early 98.5 24V, and it's been a super reliable truck. As mentioned, the lift pumps suck, so they need attention.
OIF V and OEF X veteran and proud of it!
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Re: Cummins Powered, what years to avoid
[Re: Rhinodart]
#1774679
03/09/15 11:55 AM
03/09/15 11:55 AM
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Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 3,698 NE Oklahoma
Von
master
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master
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 3,698
NE Oklahoma
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72 RR, Pump gas 440, 452s, 3800 lbs, Corked, ET Radials,. 11.33@117.72.
Same car, bone stock 346s, 9.5 comp, baby solid. 12.24@110.
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Re: Cummins Powered, what years to avoid
[Re: Rhinodart]
#1774680
03/09/15 12:31 PM
03/09/15 12:31 PM
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Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 21,318 Manitoba, Canada
DaytonaTurbo
Too Many Posts
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Too Many Posts
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 21,318
Manitoba, Canada
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The mid 90's style trucks with the manual trans and 4x4 had the NV4500 which has an issue with losing 5th gear. There is a fix for it but it is something to be aware of. 2wd doesn't have the issue IIRC.
Having owned and/or driven each of a 1993 (first gen cummins ram), a 1997 generation and a 1999 generation, I can say each generation is an improvement in comfort and ride quality over the previous. The 1993 was fairly rough riding, noisy, vibrating interior, typical of your 1980's style construction. Great looking trucks, however the extended cabs had the sideways facing jumper seats instead of a rear bench. The 97 was quieter, smoother riding and more comfortable. Having the rear bench was a nice plus. I bought another 97 recently that I will be setting up as my tow rig. The 99 had my favorite cab as it had the flip open rear doors which are awesome and it had a much more modern looking dash. Otherwise it rode about the same, maybe a little better. It also had the 24 valve computer injected engine which makes a little more power and definitely easier to modify. Howver the 12 valve engine had the simplicity and a little better mpg. The 03+ generation trucks with the common rail engine leaps and bounds quieter and more refined but I don't like them.
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Re: Cummings Powered, what years to avoid
[Re: Copper Dart]
#1774681
03/09/15 02:12 PM
03/09/15 02:12 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 15,800 Jefferson State
srt
ESYC
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ESYC
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 15,800
Jefferson State
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I checked out this sitebefore purchasing our '03 cummins. Don't worry about the "g" thing, many have made the mistake, then become spell checkers. I ended up with the 'o3 BUT if you go auto trans look for one with the 48re not the prior 47. Although both are modernizations of the 727 the 48 is superior. The lift pump can be problematic stockers last about 70k and can be sourced at any local parts house, easily replaced by removing left side inner splashshield. I've replaced 2, and am about to buy a fass system. Other things to watch is front susp. wear track bar, steering box, steering shaft (heavy engine). Also, get some good shocks (bilstein yellow/blue are a decent moderately priced option). There is a GA based nline parts store Genos, that is a good source for info about things that are consummable as their catalog has write-ups in it. I don't make it a point to buy what they carry, (i.e. deep trans pan) as others are as good and cheaper. I think early 3rd gen (pre-cat converter) 'o3-'o6 can be found that are not wore out or kid modified at a fair price. Whatever you buy make sure it isn't someone's tow rig, maintenance records a big plus, AND follow all recommended maintenance intervals. edit--> Injectors are fairly expensive, many cite 170k life and then rebuild time. Easy to know when: hard starts when warm. Some will replace one or two at a time, others figure do them all and be done with it. I use a fuel conditioner (power services) because the original owner used it since it was new and I think it's been helpful in keeping our truck going trouble free. Other thing, bleed off fuel from filter canister regularly (esp. road trips) to keep water from accumulating and if at install a trans temp sender in the line going to the radiator.If you see the temp go over 230 when climbing grades or towing, get the fluid changed. It's burnt and will shorten trans life, lastly when changing trans pan adj. bands.
Last edited by srt; 03/09/15 02:21 PM.
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Re: Cummings Powered, what years to avoid
[Re: srt]
#1774682
03/09/15 03:18 PM
03/09/15 03:18 PM
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Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 10,218 Someplace you aren't
SomeCarGuy
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I Live Here
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Posts: 10,218
Someplace you aren't
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Not sure what guys are doing to say all the auto trans are junk. I know of at least three off the top of my head that went over 200k without a rebuild, two pulling cars, one was loaded with tools at grossed about 8k all the time. The two oulling cars were turned up. Not 500 hp, but more than stock. 1st gens.
I want my fair share
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Re: Cummins Powered, what years to avoid
[Re: Rhinodart]
#1774683
03/09/15 03:34 PM
03/09/15 03:34 PM
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Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 15,134 Kelowna, B.C. Canada
DPelletier
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 15,134
Kelowna, B.C. Canada
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Quote:
ALL transmission are to be avoided behind a Cummins except if you do the Alison conversion...
NOPE....just like I told you before the NV5600 is THE strongest transmission ever used in any pickup truck in any brand....far stronger and more reliable than the 1000 series Allison used in the GM diesels.
Trucks;
- early 12V's (gen 1 trucks) with the rotary pump are reliable but output is weak and getting more out of them will require the swap to the inline mech pump at the very least. Gen 1's are pretty solid but the ride and build quality are iffy. Getrag is only an OK 5spd. 727 is...well a 727.
- Gen 2 12V trucks are also pretty bulletproof; P7100 inj. pump is better than the rotary. NV4500 is decent, 47RE is weak.
- Gen 2 24V trucks; VP44 is very susceptible to failure due to low lift pump pressure but if you monitor that they are easy to boost output and pretty reliable compared to other years. #53 casting blocks had some cracking issues (used around '98- '99 or so). All Gen 2 trucks had some minor issues with rear brakes (until disks at 2001), steering boxes, track bars, etc. Still using the weak 47RE, the NV4500 5spd (OK) and the very strong NV5600 6spd.
- Gen 3 trucks; common rail solves VP44 issues but the injectors are a bit more complicated. Steering and Quad cab are much better. 48RE is debuted but some early 2003 standard output (250hp) trucks still have the 47RE. The 48 is stronger but still lacks features that brand X and Y are starting to add. The NV5600 is in use until (IIRC) 2006 when it's replaced with the G56....the G56 is an OK trans despite the dual mass flywheel garbage. I think one year (2004) used an intercooler with plastic end caps which sucked. 2006 up also use the TIPM computer which is a total POS.
Best years? 1994 - 1997 12V 5spd; 2001 - 2002 HO, 6spd (ETH/DEE), 2003 and pre-jan 2004 built NV5600 trucks.
I've had issues with my 2006 and 2008 that would prevent me from buying a newer one. For my money the 2003 6spd is the best of the best.
Dave
1970 Super Bee 440 Six Pack
1974 'Cuda
2008 Ram 3500 Diesel
2006 Ram 3500 Diesel
2004.5 Ram 2500 Diesel
2003 Ram 3500 Diesel
2006 Durango Limited
[url] http://1970superbee.piczo.com [/url]
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Re: Cummings Powered, what years to avoid
[Re: srt]
#1774684
03/09/15 04:04 PM
03/09/15 04:04 PM
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Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 21,318 Manitoba, Canada
DaytonaTurbo
Too Many Posts
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Too Many Posts
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 21,318
Manitoba, Canada
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Quote:
Whatever you buy make sure it isn't someone's tow rig
Very tough, considering that's what everyone buys them for. Just try and find one that's not totally used up like most of em are.
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Re: Cummings Powered, what years to avoid
[Re: DaytonaTurbo]
#1774685
03/09/15 06:40 PM
03/09/15 06:40 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 15,800 Jefferson State
srt
ESYC
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ESYC
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 15,800
Jefferson State
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tough, but not impossible. I look for things like worn front suspension, wear in the receiver, signs of rear spring bushing wear. Also, a log book is nice to browse through. If owner notes down where service or fueling is done, and it's all over the map... Another thing to look for is if the truck had gauges/tuners added. Not bad in it's self, but could indicate a kid hot-rodding, or someone trying to maximize tq/hp. On the autos (I bought a 'o3 w/ 48re after asking q's here and on the forum I linked), if used for towing learn how/when to NOT use o.d. and when to lock the converter. If you don't mind shifting get the nv, and others may not agree, I think the 'o3 early 'o4's would be the prize to look for.
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Re: Cummings Powered, what years to avoid
[Re: srt]
#1774686
03/09/15 09:42 PM
03/09/15 09:42 PM
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Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 18,582 Rust Belt, SW PA
Silver70
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 18,582
Rust Belt, SW PA
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Mine apparently was used for long commutes and wasn't used for hauling trailers. So they are out there... I know quite a few people who don't use them like they should.
Anyways, I have an 01, my biggest issue is it leaks oil. There are quite a few places they are known to leak from. I already resealed my vacuum pump, not on to the tappet cover. Had to replace a caliper, clutch, power steering pump and such, normal stuff.
If I were to get another I'd get an 03-05 with a 6 speed. I like the looks, ride and so on over my 01.
68 Road Runner, 69 Belvedere, 71 Challenger Vert 340 barracuda, 01 Ram CTD, 95 Ram, 04 Ram, 85 Daytona turbo Z 66 GTO, 06 Magnum RT AWD. 07 Ram CTD, 07 Ram
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Re: Cummings Powered, what years to avoid
[Re: Silver70]
#1774687
03/09/15 11:14 PM
03/09/15 11:14 PM
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Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 9,852 MI, usa
dvw
master
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master
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 9,852
MI, usa
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I've had my 1995 since new. 5 speed manual 2 wd dual wheel. 5th gear nut did come loose, easy fix. There's a bulletin for it. Happened twice 34k, then 60k never happened again after the last fix. Broke the center out of the clutch disc at 125K, the disc wasn't anywhere close to worn out. Installed a Southbend 13' clutch. I added a cam plate and governor springs to the pump which REALLY woke it up. I replaced the A/C evaporator, power window switch, brakes, batterys, exhaust, lower ball joints, pinion seal. That's it. All it's ever been used for is towing my racecar. Currently 32" tri-axle and a slide in camper in the bed. Just under 20K lbs total. It has been a very good truck. The head gasket is seeping a bit so I'll replace it this spring. 190K miles. Been running 35 psi boost the last 55K miles. Doug
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