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Cummings Powered, what years to avoid #1774671
03/08/15 11:19 AM
03/08/15 11:19 AM
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West Palm Beach, Florida
Copper Dart Offline OP
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i have been considering buying a Tow Truck/occasional driver with the Cummings engine. what are the years to avoid and what are the transmissions to avoid. i would prefer auto but thats barely worth mentioning because stick would be just fine too.
ideally and extended cab short bed 2WD light colored truck.

What say you?

Copper


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Ricky Valdes
Re: Cummings Powered, what years to avoid [Re: Copper Dart] #1774672
03/08/15 01:45 PM
03/08/15 01:45 PM
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Manitoba, Canada
DaytonaTurbo Offline
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There's no g in cummins. Get that part straight before you do your google searches.

The early 24v engines had some with an engine block issue. Google dodge cummins Brazilian block.

Also the 24 valve trucks had a notoriously poor vp44 lift pump. When the lift pump goes you can keep driving but it will kill the injection pump. If you get one of these trucks, a pressure gauge for the lift pump is a wise investment.

If you're going for an older truck with the 12v mechanically injected truck or a newer truck this won't be an issue.

Every Cummins truck with the auto I've seen has puked the transmission by 200k miles so find one thats already been rebuilt.

Re: Cummings Powered, what years to avoid [Re: Copper Dart] #1774673
03/08/15 01:50 PM
03/08/15 01:50 PM
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Chilliwack B.C. Canada
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RUNCHARGER Offline
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I think the older the engine the better it is and the newer the automatic trans the better it is so you have to find a balance I suppose.
I like my 05 but I change the fuel filter at every oil change and still watch for any sign of injector problems. I was told the Torque Convertors go away and fill the trans with junk and take it out. So I changed the Torque and the guy replaced a few clutches in the trans that showed slight colouring at 100,000 miles. That cost me about $2k but I think the truck should run for another few hundred thousand miles without any trouble.
I would go 06 and older if I was to buy another one, the newer trucks have nicer cabs but don't get the fuel mileage and there's way too much junk hung on the engine in the newer trucks. We can thank the ecologists for wrecking a really good thing.

Sheldon

Re: Cummings Powered, what years to avoid [Re: RUNCHARGER] #1774674
03/08/15 02:35 PM
03/08/15 02:35 PM
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British Columbia
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first generation 92-93 were the hands down best. I sold my first gen and bought a 07 5.9 expensive to repair and generally a crappy truck. hard to work on too.
2003-up have broken ring issues. shop down the road from me did 350 2003-7 5.9's last year. 1 a day.

Re: Cummings Powered, what years to avoid [Re: chrisf] #1774675
03/08/15 04:41 PM
03/08/15 04:41 PM
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Graham, WA
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My only experience with the CTD was with my 2002 QC Short Bed 2WD. I was the 2nd owner and it had a new South Bend clutch matched to a 6 speed manual and the HO (for the time) 5.9. It also had a complete set of gauges, Boost, EGT and Fuel Pressure at the VP44. I would still have it but, I wrecked the truck in October 2012. The air bags never deployed? It was totaled by State Farm???WTF...I bought it back and sold it 4 months later with all the extra wheels/tires and accessories that I had acquired over the years, to a young man that rebuilt it. It was a good deal for him and he is still driving and loving it. During the time that I owned it, I changed the VP44 injector pump for a rebuilt, relocated the OEM lift pump to the frame, changed that lift pump to a FASS DDRP, put a short shift kit in the transmission and put in a 4" MBRP Stainless Exhaust system. I did all the maintenance myself. I would have rebuilt it and kept it, but my wife could not drive it (Ergonomics all wrong for her) and I had to have new knee after the accident, so it would have sat for a long time in my driveway

I would recommend the 24 valve 98.5 through 2002 models for the most performance for the least investment.

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1986 Dodge Ramcharger 440 2wd, Bracket Racer Under Construction
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Re: Cummings Powered, what years to avoid [Re: Polarapete] #1774676
03/09/15 10:06 AM
03/09/15 10:06 AM
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 1,520
West Palm Beach, Florida
Copper Dart Offline OP
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Thanks for the schooling.
Cummins powered tow/driver.
I'm not looking for all out performance, just reliability and ease of maintenance to pull a 28' inclosed. The truck will sit parked a lot till show/race time or the usual homeowner run to the hardware store.
Early trucks, what would be the best transmission? I have a limited budget so newer trucks are out.
What's the first years inter-cooled
Any bad manual trans to avoid?
Thanks to all chiming in
Copper

Last edited by Copper Dart; 03/09/15 10:10 AM.

Common sense, the least common of all the senses.
Mom.

For fear of ridicule, society stifles creativity.
Ricky Valdes
Re: Cummins Powered, what years to avoid [Re: Copper Dart] #1774677
03/09/15 10:36 AM
03/09/15 10:36 AM
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Pyeongtaek, South Korea
69HemiGTX Offline
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The intercooled 1st Gen appeared as a 91.5 model. The manual trucks used a Getrag G360 transmission. It's a solid performer if you don't bomb the crap out of it. For autos, the early trucks got non-overdrive 727s. Since they had no overdrive, they got Dana 61/71 diffs with 3.07s front and rear, respectively. The overdrive trans came out around the same time as the intercooler. I'm not 100% sure of the timing, but I know it's close. There are a lot of little differences between the trucks, too. A lot of 1st Gen guys will combine parts from each to get what they say is a better product. I haven't researched those claims too much, so I have no idea if they're true. I do know that some guys will swap the ultra tall gear diffs under an intercooled truck to make a sweet highway hauler, but they obviously give up some grunt for towing.

I own a 91.5 with a G360, but its drivetrain is going into my 78 crew cab. I also own a very early 98.5 24V, and it's been a super reliable truck. As mentioned, the lift pumps suck, so they need attention.


OIF V and OEF X veteran and proud of it!
Re: Cummins Powered, what years to avoid [Re: 69HemiGTX] #1774678
03/09/15 11:05 AM
03/09/15 11:05 AM
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Round Lake Beach, Illinoisy
Rhinodart Offline
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ALL transmission are to be avoided behind a Cummins except if you do the Alison conversion...


The funny thing about science is that if you change one miniscule parameter you change the entire outcome to the way you want it.

JB Rhinehart, Realist

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Re: Cummins Powered, what years to avoid [Re: Rhinodart] #1774679
03/09/15 11:55 AM
03/09/15 11:55 AM
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NE Oklahoma
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Von Offline
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What is a cummings?


72 RR, Pump gas 440, 452s, 3800 lbs, Corked, ET Radials,. 11.33@117.72. Same car, bone stock 346s, 9.5 comp, baby solid. 12.24@110.
Re: Cummins Powered, what years to avoid [Re: Rhinodart] #1774680
03/09/15 12:31 PM
03/09/15 12:31 PM
Joined: Feb 2003
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Manitoba, Canada
DaytonaTurbo Offline
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The mid 90's style trucks with the manual trans and 4x4 had the NV4500 which has an issue with losing 5th gear. There is a fix for it but it is something to be aware of. 2wd doesn't have the issue IIRC.

Having owned and/or driven each of a 1993 (first gen cummins ram), a 1997 generation and a 1999 generation, I can say each generation is an improvement in comfort and ride quality over the previous. The 1993 was fairly rough riding, noisy, vibrating interior, typical of your 1980's style construction. Great looking trucks, however the extended cabs had the sideways facing jumper seats instead of a rear bench. The 97 was quieter, smoother riding and more comfortable. Having the rear bench was a nice plus. I bought another 97 recently that I will be setting up as my tow rig. The 99 had my favorite cab as it had the flip open rear doors which are awesome and it had a much more modern looking dash. Otherwise it rode about the same, maybe a little better. It also had the 24 valve computer injected engine which makes a little more power and definitely easier to modify. Howver the 12 valve engine had the simplicity and a little better mpg. The 03+ generation trucks with the common rail engine leaps and bounds quieter and more refined but I don't like them.

Re: Cummings Powered, what years to avoid [Re: Copper Dart] #1774681
03/09/15 02:12 PM
03/09/15 02:12 PM
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Jefferson State
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srt Offline
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I checked out this site
before purchasing our '03 cummins. Don't worry about the "g" thing, many have made the mistake, then become spell checkers.
I ended up with the 'o3 BUT if you go auto trans look for one with the 48re not the prior 47.
Although both are modernizations of the 727 the 48 is superior.
The lift pump can be problematic stockers last about 70k and can be sourced at any local parts house, easily replaced by removing left side inner splashshield.
I've replaced 2, and am about to buy a fass system.
Other things to watch is front susp. wear track bar, steering box, steering shaft (heavy engine).
Also, get some good shocks (bilstein yellow/blue are a decent moderately priced option).
There is a GA based nline parts store Genos, that is a good source for info about things that are consummable as their catalog has write-ups in it.
I don't make it a point to buy what they carry, (i.e. deep trans pan) as others are as good and cheaper.
I think early 3rd gen (pre-cat converter) 'o3-'o6 can be found that are not wore out or kid modified at a fair price.
Whatever you buy make sure it isn't someone's tow rig, maintenance records a big plus, AND follow all recommended maintenance intervals.
edit--> Injectors are fairly expensive, many cite 170k life and then rebuild time. Easy to know when: hard starts when warm. Some will replace one or two at a time, others figure do them all and be done with it.
I use a fuel conditioner (power services) because the original owner used it since it was new and I think it's been helpful in keeping our truck going trouble free. Other thing, bleed off fuel from filter canister regularly (esp. road trips) to keep water from accumulating and if at install a trans temp sender in the line going to the radiator.If you see the temp go over 230 when climbing grades or towing, get the fluid changed. It's burnt and will shorten trans life, lastly when changing trans pan adj. bands.

Last edited by srt; 03/09/15 02:21 PM.
Re: Cummings Powered, what years to avoid [Re: srt] #1774682
03/09/15 03:18 PM
03/09/15 03:18 PM
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Someplace you aren't
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Not sure what guys are doing to say all the auto trans are junk. I know of at least three off the top of my head that went over 200k without a rebuild, two pulling cars, one was loaded with tools at grossed about 8k all the time. The two oulling cars were turned up. Not 500 hp, but more than stock. 1st gens.


I want my fair share
Re: Cummins Powered, what years to avoid [Re: Rhinodart] #1774683
03/09/15 03:34 PM
03/09/15 03:34 PM
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Kelowna, B.C. Canada
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Quote:

ALL transmission are to be avoided behind a Cummins except if you do the Alison conversion...




NOPE....just like I told you before the NV5600 is THE strongest transmission ever used in any pickup truck in any brand....far stronger and more reliable than the 1000 series Allison used in the GM diesels.

Trucks;

- early 12V's (gen 1 trucks) with the rotary pump are reliable but output is weak and getting more out of them will require the swap to the inline mech pump at the very least. Gen 1's are pretty solid but the ride and build quality are iffy. Getrag is only an OK 5spd. 727 is...well a 727.

- Gen 2 12V trucks are also pretty bulletproof; P7100 inj. pump is better than the rotary. NV4500 is decent, 47RE is weak.

- Gen 2 24V trucks; VP44 is very susceptible to failure due to low lift pump pressure but if you monitor that they are easy to boost output and pretty reliable compared to other years. #53 casting blocks had some cracking issues (used around '98- '99 or so). All Gen 2 trucks had some minor issues with rear brakes (until disks at 2001), steering boxes, track bars, etc. Still using the weak 47RE, the NV4500 5spd (OK) and the very strong NV5600 6spd.

- Gen 3 trucks; common rail solves VP44 issues but the injectors are a bit more complicated. Steering and Quad cab are much better. 48RE is debuted but some early 2003 standard output (250hp) trucks still have the 47RE. The 48 is stronger but still lacks features that brand X and Y are starting to add. The NV5600 is in use until (IIRC) 2006 when it's replaced with the G56....the G56 is an OK trans despite the dual mass flywheel garbage. I think one year (2004) used an intercooler with plastic end caps which sucked. 2006 up also use the TIPM computer which is a total POS.


Best years? 1994 - 1997 12V 5spd; 2001 - 2002 HO, 6spd (ETH/DEE), 2003 and pre-jan 2004 built NV5600 trucks.

I've had issues with my 2006 and 2008 that would prevent me from buying a newer one. For my money the 2003 6spd is the best of the best.




Dave


1970 Super Bee 440 Six Pack 1974 'Cuda 2008 Ram 3500 Diesel 2006 Ram 3500 Diesel 2004.5 Ram 2500 Diesel 2003 Ram 3500 Diesel 2006 Durango Limited [url] http://1970superbee.piczo.com [/url]
Re: Cummings Powered, what years to avoid [Re: srt] #1774684
03/09/15 04:04 PM
03/09/15 04:04 PM
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Manitoba, Canada
DaytonaTurbo Offline
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Quote:

Whatever you buy make sure it isn't someone's tow rig




Very tough, considering that's what everyone buys them for. Just try and find one that's not totally used up like most of em are.

Re: Cummings Powered, what years to avoid [Re: DaytonaTurbo] #1774685
03/09/15 06:40 PM
03/09/15 06:40 PM
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Jefferson State
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srt Offline
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tough, but not impossible.
I look for things like worn front suspension, wear in the receiver, signs of rear spring bushing wear. Also, a log book is nice to browse through. If owner notes down where service or fueling is done, and it's all over the map...
Another thing to look for is if the truck had gauges/tuners added. Not bad in it's self, but could indicate a kid hot-rodding, or someone trying to maximize tq/hp.
On the autos (I bought a 'o3 w/ 48re after asking q's here and on the forum I linked), if used for towing learn how/when to NOT use o.d. and when to lock the converter.
If you don't mind shifting get the nv, and others may not agree, I think the 'o3 early 'o4's would be the prize to look for.

Re: Cummings Powered, what years to avoid [Re: srt] #1774686
03/09/15 09:42 PM
03/09/15 09:42 PM
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Rust Belt, SW PA
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Mine apparently was used for long commutes and wasn't used for hauling trailers. So they are out there... I know quite a few people who don't use them like they should.

Anyways, I have an 01, my biggest issue is it leaks oil. There are quite a few places they are known to leak from. I already resealed my vacuum pump, not on to the tappet cover. Had to replace a caliper, clutch, power steering pump and such, normal stuff.

If I were to get another I'd get an 03-05 with a 6 speed. I like the looks, ride and so on over my 01.


68 Road Runner, 69 Belvedere, 71 Challenger Vert
340 barracuda, 01 Ram CTD, 95 Ram, 04 Ram, 85 Daytona turbo Z
66 GTO, 06 Magnum RT AWD. 07 Ram CTD, 07 Ram
Re: Cummings Powered, what years to avoid [Re: Silver70] #1774687
03/09/15 11:14 PM
03/09/15 11:14 PM
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MI, usa
dvw Offline
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I've had my 1995 since new. 5 speed manual 2 wd dual wheel. 5th gear nut did come loose, easy fix. There's a bulletin for it. Happened twice 34k, then 60k never happened again after the last fix. Broke the center out of the clutch disc at 125K, the disc wasn't anywhere close to worn out. Installed a Southbend 13' clutch. I added a cam plate and governor springs to the pump which REALLY woke it up. I replaced the A/C evaporator, power window switch, brakes, batterys, exhaust, lower ball joints, pinion seal. That's it. All it's ever been used for is towing my racecar. Currently 32" tri-axle and a slide in camper in the bed. Just under 20K lbs total. It has been a very good truck. The head gasket is seeping a bit so I'll replace it this spring. 190K miles. Been running 35 psi boost the last 55K miles.
Doug

Re: Cummings Powered, what years to avoid [Re: Copper Dart] #1774688
03/09/15 11:17 PM
03/09/15 11:17 PM
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Blairsden, CA
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Triggerfish Offline
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If you go with the 24V Cummins, look for one with a manual trans & then
do the FASS pump conversion & larger 4" exhaust. I love my 2002 & it towed my 24'enclosed like it wasn't there, but the auto trans was the weak link.
Had to rebuild it at 100K because dummy me didn't read the manual & towed in overdrive. Trans shop did 12 mods that he said were the "weak link" & never had an issue after that... except when the 1 gen Edge controller I installed shorted out the electronics. Took out the PCM & ECM modules which caused the injection pump to go. $7K bill. So go manual if you can. A lot of guys like the 12 valve versions (1998 etc) seems like you can get a lot more power from them by turning up the fuel pressure.

Re: Cummings Powered, what years to avoid [Re: Triggerfish] #1774689
03/09/15 11:39 PM
03/09/15 11:39 PM
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fredericksburg,va
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cudaman1969 Offline
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I have an 06 3500 auto. What lift pump should I get to replace the original(90.000 miles)

Re: Cummings Powered, what years to avoid [Re: Silver70] #1774690
03/10/15 12:03 AM
03/10/15 12:03 AM
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 1,520
West Palm Beach, Florida
Copper Dart Offline OP
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Copper Dart  Offline OP
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West Palm Beach, Florida
I'm finding lots of autos. Few manual trans trucks around here unless you opt for 4X4
I need to study up on what auto trans to look for or just wait


Common sense, the least common of all the senses.
Mom.

For fear of ridicule, society stifles creativity.
Ricky Valdes
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