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Re: XV level II front suspension. Who is using it?
[Re: cdoublejj]
#1770402
03/22/15 01:45 AM
03/22/15 01:45 AM
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Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 4,302
Nebraska
72Swinger
master
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master
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 4,302
Nebraska
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You can talk about effectiveness until your blue in the face, I agree moving it up would help, getting it closer to the pinch weld, and help clear the distributor. Another thing is the effectiveness with the coilovers vs T-bars.
Mopar to the bone!!!
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Re: XV level II front suspension. Who is using it?
[Re: 72Swinger]
#1770403
03/22/15 08:25 AM
03/22/15 08:25 AM
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Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 37
NY
XVracing
member
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member
Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 37
NY
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Quote:
You can talk about effectiveness until your blue in the face, I agree moving it up would help, getting it closer to the pinch weld, and help clear the distributor. Another thing is the effectiveness with the coilovers vs T-bars.
There are a lot of constraints here also... The engine brace was design to fit a variety of engine, induction, and brake combinations. It was designed to fit big block, and 426 hemi cars and the main focus is of course the GenIII hemi's. Along with that is was made to clear the distributors of the big blocks and Hemi's, along with the piston AC compressors. It also clears the BB fresh air, air cleaner as well as the HEMI vacuum booster.
That's a lot of stuff to deal with!!!
And again, these were all tested on the rig and verified. So we can sit back in our chairs and say change this or change that, but everything has a cause and an effect and modeling everything the way they did, came up with the best overall solution.
If the chassis stiffness package wasn't so effective, people probably wouldn't be trying to copy it...
CR
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Re: XV level II front suspension. Who is using it?
[Re: Supercuda]
#1770406
03/22/15 03:10 PM
03/22/15 03:10 PM
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Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 4,302
Nebraska
72Swinger
master
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master
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 4,302
Nebraska
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IM not bashing either Chris, I am an A-body owner so what I think doesn't matter anyway. The Heims are probably fine in a coilover car but I know they are not IDEAL arresting TWIST with T-bars.
Mopar to the bone!!!
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Re: XV level II front suspension. Who is using it?
[Re: 72Swinger]
#1770407
03/22/15 04:25 PM
03/22/15 04:25 PM
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Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 37
NY
XVracing
member
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member
Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 37
NY
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Quote:
IM not bashing either Chris, I am an A-body owner so what I think doesn't matter anyway. The Heims are probably fine in a coilover car but I know they are not IDEAL arresting TWIST with T-bars.
And folks, this is how every one of these ends... People wonder why manufacturer's aren't more active in these forums... 
If anybody wants any information or details, please PM, email, or call me at the shop...
CR
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Re: XV level II front suspension. Who is using it?
[Re: XVracing]
#1770408
03/22/15 11:26 PM
03/22/15 11:26 PM
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Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 22,696
Bitopia
jcc
If you can't dazzle em with diamonds..
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If you can't dazzle em with diamonds..
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 22,696
Bitopia
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I understand that its easy to get feelings hurt, but we are supposed to be grown ups, nobody is perfect, everything can be made better, and if iI don't make a critical comment, some else or your competitor will, and good engineering design is not arm chair engineering, and most manufacturers leave because they find it easier to close their ears then open their eyes. Yes, this is a tough crowd, and running off any manufacturer helps no one, and is never mine nor I suspect anyone else'e intent. Making a better product is. In my case my suggestions require very little effort to implement other then maybe eating at the absolute worst case a little crow and agreeing a slight change makes for an improvement. I don't see the problem. Wanting all glory and no heat for a product is not realistic. We want you to succeed, if you are listening. 
Reality check, that half the population is smarter then 50% of the people and it's a constantly contested fact.
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Re: XV level II front suspension. Who is using it?
[Re: jcc]
#1770409
03/23/15 12:10 AM
03/23/15 12:10 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 27,466
So Cal
autoxcuda
Too Many Posts
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Too Many Posts
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 27,466
So Cal
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Quote:
I understand that its easy to get feelings hurt, but we are supposed to be grown ups, nobody is perfect, everything can be made better, and if iI don't make a critical comment, some else or your competitor will, and good engineering design is not arm chair engineering, and most manufacturers leave because they find it easier to close their ears then open their eyes. Yes, this is a tough crowd, and running off any manufacturer helps no one, and is never mine nor I suspect anyone else'e intent. Making a better product is. In my case my suggestions require very little effort to implement other then maybe eating at the absolute worst case a little crow and agreeing a slight change makes for an improvement. I don't see the problem. Wanting all glory and no heat for a product is not realistic. We want you to succeed, if you are listening.
Yes, but some don't act like grown up. And just want to rudely impolitely nit pick and over scrutinize any ideas that are not their own.
And refuse to believe there are possibly two ways to get to the same place (maybe even three?).
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Re: XV level II front suspension. Who is using it?
[Re: Supercuda]
#1770411
03/23/15 04:19 PM
03/23/15 04:19 PM
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Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 198
Hershey, PA
73MagDuster
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member
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 198
Hershey, PA
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Quote:
Is there any good before and after tests on these aftermarket suspensions?
By good I mean a couple of things. Third party, same rims and tires and if possible same brakes?
I have axcess to CarSim at work. If I could get enough information on the stock, XV, and Hotchkiss systems I could build a generic E body and simulate skidpad, slalom, general ride, braking, and some more free form dynamics. Body and tires would be constant. To be very precise it needs K and C data to account for bushing movement but for what we are doing here that shouldn't have an affect.
I need spring or wheel rates, sta bar rates, pickup points, etc. I have no way of getting that info other than a stock E body I have access too.
If Dan and Chris are interested PM me. More than agreeable to signing an NDA for the specs. I have no dog in this fight other than answering questions.
It would not happen over night, it takes a bit to build the model, paying work to do, yadda yadda.
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Re: XV level II front suspension. Who is using it?
[Re: Uhcoog1]
#1770412
03/23/15 05:11 PM
03/23/15 05:11 PM
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Joined: May 2005
Posts: 723
Houston Tx
Uhcoog1
super stock
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super stock
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 723
Houston Tx
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Quote:
Quote:
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Offset UCA bushings.
I'm under the impression that A bodies with offset bushings will go further than B/E. I don't have any support for that, though.
That is amazing. I've done a lot of a-bodies and I've NEVER been able to get one anywhere close to that.
Alignments were done at Bumbera's- a race shop in Katy. I'll go to a new shop next time to see if the numbers are different.
As promised:
New numbers, new shop.
When 'maxed out' at this shop (front and rear cam bolts rolled for max camber), I was at:
LF: 10.1, -1.5
RF: 10.2, -2.5
Below is the compromise we ended up with. I am very pleased. I'll bring camber spacers with me to the track in the event I need more for the hoosiers.
LF: -2.3, 8.3
RF: -2.2, 8.6
Toe: 0.0
As a reminder for those who may not have seen the 'history':
My ride height is very low (factory bump stop height, more or less). I am really far into the caster/camber gain curve.
For my car and my ride height:
"Maxed out" caster for 1.2 camber was 6.9* caster
"Maxed out" caster for 1.5-1.6 camber was 7.1-7.3 caster
YMMV
I would 'like' to be able to get 8+* caster with -1.5 or less camber for street. Not possible. Aftermarket arms would be useful for this.
-'02 Dodge Viper Ex-World Challenge racecar
-'73 Duster, 6.1 based 392 hilborn hemi, tko600, full floater rear 9", Hellwig custom bars, viper brakes, built for road course
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Re: XV level II front suspension. Who is using it?
[Re: XVracing]
#1770413
03/23/15 05:16 PM
03/23/15 05:16 PM
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Joined: May 2005
Posts: 723
Houston Tx
Uhcoog1
super stock
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super stock
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 723
Houston Tx
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Quote:
And folks, this is how every one of these ends... People wonder why manufacturer's aren't more active in these forums...
If anybody wants any information or details, please PM, email, or call me at the shop...
CR
Thanks for keeping XV alive, Chris. I watched all the video's the other day and I am very appreciative of the research and work done by XV.
-'02 Dodge Viper Ex-World Challenge racecar
-'73 Duster, 6.1 based 392 hilborn hemi, tko600, full floater rear 9", Hellwig custom bars, viper brakes, built for road course
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Re: XV level II front suspension. Who is using it?
[Re: Uhcoog1]
#1770414
03/23/15 06:45 PM
03/23/15 06:45 PM
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Joined: Aug 2013
Posts: 106
Central IL
Trojmn
member
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member
Joined: Aug 2013
Posts: 106
Central IL
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Quote:
I would 'like' to be able to get 8+* caster with -1.5 or less camber for street. Not possible. Aftermarket arms would be useful for this.
1/8" spacer between the balljoint/knuckle should help quite a bit. I use bronze bushings from the hardware store. They also sell 1/16" I didn't have any binding in the BJ. and still full thread engagement on the bolts.
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Re: XV level II front suspension. Who is using it?
[Re: Trojmn]
#1770415
03/23/15 07:43 PM
03/23/15 07:43 PM
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Joined: May 2005
Posts: 723
Houston Tx
Uhcoog1
super stock
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super stock
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 723
Houston Tx
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Quote:
Quote:
I would 'like' to be able to get 8+* caster with -1.5 or less camber for street. Not possible. Aftermarket arms would be useful for this.
1/8" spacer between the balljoint/knuckle should help quite a bit. I use bronze bushings from the hardware store. They also sell 1/16" I didn't have any binding in the BJ. and still full thread engagement on the bolts.
Between the lower ball joint and spindle? Those increase the camber, but don't do much, if anything, for caster. I have a set from Andy, and will be buying some thinner washers for potential track adjustments this weekend.
-'02 Dodge Viper Ex-World Challenge racecar
-'73 Duster, 6.1 based 392 hilborn hemi, tko600, full floater rear 9", Hellwig custom bars, viper brakes, built for road course
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Re: XV level II front suspension. Who is using it?
[Re: amxautox]
#1770418
03/25/15 05:22 PM
03/25/15 05:22 PM
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Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 4,165
Florida
cataclysm80
master
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master
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 4,165
Florida
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I thought XV was out of business. 
Oh Man, Don't scare me like that!
They make some great stuff. I love the power window kit.
Tav
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Re: XV level II front suspension. Who is using it?
[Re: jcc]
#1770419
03/25/15 05:39 PM
03/25/15 05:39 PM
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Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 4,165
Florida
cataclysm80
master
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master
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 4,165
Florida
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Quote:
The problem with the pictured solution is for one, where the brace connects to the firewall, I bet one can almost by hand bend the sheet metal, but it the brace was moved up only say 4"?, it would near a 90 degree bend and be magnitudes stiffer. Nobody sees this?
You might want to take a closer look at E body sheet metal.
Where that brace meets the firewall is very near to the 90 degree bend for the horizontal part of the firewall sometimes known as the rain pan. Not only is there a 90 degree bend located there, but it is also reinforced by a second piece of sheet metal called the cowl which is welded onto the firewall. The mounting plate for the brace overlaps this weld near the 90 degree bend.
Tav
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Re: XV level II front suspension. Who is using it?
[Re: Trojmn]
#1770420
03/25/15 10:30 PM
03/25/15 10:30 PM
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Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 3,577
Long Island, NY USA
BergmanAutoCraft
master
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master
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 3,577
Long Island, NY USA
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Quote:
Quote:
I would 'like' to be able to get 8+* caster with -1.5 or less camber for street. Not possible. Aftermarket arms would be useful for this.
1/8" spacer between the balljoint/knuckle should help quite a bit. I use bronze bushings from the hardware store. They also sell 1/16" I didn't have any binding in the BJ. and still full thread engagement on the bolts.
Why not use the SPC arms I sell? They can use the eccentrics AND the adjustable legs of the arm. I am going to try this and by the looks of it, I should be able to achieve 8.5 easily. Mine are at 4 now and the arms are not extended at all to do so.
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