Help pick a cam Agan a lttle long
#1746681
02/04/15 09:31 PM
02/04/15 09:31 PM
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Joined: May 2005
Posts: 1,030 ohio
67mprfan
OP
super stock
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OP
super stock
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 1,030
ohio
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Hello all as we are still in the middle of winter around here I would like some feed back on a cam to use car 71 demon 2977 with me in it motor 440 .055 11.78 comp indy ez-1 heads 1050 with 2in adapter, 727 trans 8in conv 5400 stall 4.56 gears 31x14 tires ladder bar set-up current cam 660 lift duration @ .050 282 adv 312 1.5 rockers. choice of cams 1st 682 lift 267/274 duration 108 lsa 2nd cam 669 lift 272/280 duration on a 106 lsa 3rd cam 705/681 lift 27/278 duration on a 107 lsa best times for the car is in my sig.....Thanks everyoe
71 demon stock stroke 440/indy ez-1 running 10.10 @ 132.14 mph in the 1/4 and 6.36 @ 107.46 mph in the 1/8 not in the same weekend but It did it then I sold it. 67 Belvedere that worked it's way in the 10's
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Re: Help pick a cam Agan a lttle long
[Re: 67mprfan]
#1746682
02/04/15 09:37 PM
02/04/15 09:37 PM
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972 Romeo MI
MR_P_BODY
Master
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Master
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
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Are the heads ported and what rpm do you trap at now.. and are you happy with the rpm... do you want to go up in rpm..which you will unless you change gear ratio
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Re: Help pick a cam Agan a lttle long
[Re: 67mprfan]
#1746684
02/04/15 10:26 PM
02/04/15 10:26 PM
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972 Romeo MI
MR_P_BODY
Master
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Master
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
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Quote:
Quote:
Are the heads ported and what rpm do you trap at now.. and are you happy with the rpm... do you want to go up in rpm..which you will unless you change gear ratio
yes they have been 346 on intake and 236 on exhaust or somewhere around there sheets in the basement...shift at 6500 rpm going thru traps about 6700 rpm
At what lift was the max flow... you want to exceed that lift to utilize the max out of the head
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Re: Help pick a cam Agan a lttle long
[Re: 67mprfan]
#1746688
02/04/15 10:48 PM
02/04/15 10:48 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 15,439 Val-haul-ass... eventually
BradH
Taking time off to work on my car
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Taking time off to work on my car
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 15,439
Val-haul-ass... eventually
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What's it 60 ft?
Why do you think you should change the cam?
Also, your #s just look odd to me... almost 4 mph faster in the 1/8th than me, yet only 2 mph faster in the 1/4, like you're running out of rpm or over geared.
Last edited by BradH; 02/04/15 11:09 PM.
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Re: Help pick a cam Agan a lttle long
[Re: BradH]
#1746689
02/04/15 11:02 PM
02/04/15 11:02 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 10,016 Frostbitefalls MN (Rocky&Bullw...
gregsdart
I Live Here
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I Live Here
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Frostbitefalls MN (Rocky&Bullw...
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Quote:
What's it 60 ft?
Why do you think you should change the cam?
I was going to ask the same question. If you raise the stall, It might wake it up or just be in the range the cam you have will work best. What is the LSA of the cam? Where do you have it installed? What are you shifting at now? 1.7 rockers on the intake may work well, but I have no experience with a setup like yours. I am assuming these are big port heads?
Last edited by gregsdart; 02/04/15 11:04 PM.
8..603 156 mph best, 2905 lbs 549, indy 572-13, alky
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Re: Help pick a cam Agan a lttle long
[Re: 67mprfan]
#1746691
02/04/15 11:48 PM
02/04/15 11:48 PM
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972 Romeo MI
MR_P_BODY
Master
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Master
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
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Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
What's it 60 ft?
Why do you think you should change the cam?
I was going to ask the same question. If you raise the stall, It might wake it up or just be in the range the cam you have will work best. What is the LSA of the cam? Where do you have it installed? What are you shifting at now? 1.7 rockers on the intake may work well, but I have no experience with a setup like yours. I am assuming these are big port heads?
Just thinking duration is to high for my compression and to much overlap. Lsa is 106 now, tried different shift points made no difference. heads are indy ez-1 MW ports
You need more lift to utilize you flow.. but I would talk to a few cam companies.. one of them would be Bullit Cams.. they make some nice ones but they do tend to be aggressive
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Re: Help pick a cam Agan a lttle long
[Re: BradH]
#1746692
02/05/15 12:44 AM
02/05/15 12:44 AM
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Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 561 USA
B3RE
mopar
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mopar
Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 561
USA
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Quote:
What's it 60 ft?
Why do you think you should change the cam?
Also, your #s just look odd to me... almost 4 mph faster in the 1/8th than me, yet only 2 mph faster in the 1/4, like you're running out of rpm or over geared.
Or, maybe it's the valvetrain. Was the valvetrain checked for proper geometry? A stock stroke 440 with 346 cfm heads and 282 @ .050 cam should be shifting higher than 6500 rpm. I think with a 31 x 14 slick and those engine specs, it would need more gear. I'd expect peak power to be more than 6500 rpm. It just needs to get there. That would explain the lower 1/4 mile mph. That being said, it could benefit from more lift, and if the cam is being changed anyway, I'd go with a little less duration, and a higher ratio rocker.
Mike Beachel
I didn't write the rules of math nor create the laws of physics, I am just bound by them.
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Re: Help pick a cam Agan a lttle long
[Re: 67mprfan]
#1746693
02/05/15 12:06 PM
02/05/15 12:06 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 15,439 Val-haul-ass... eventually
BradH
Taking time off to work on my car
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Taking time off to work on my car
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 15,439
Val-haul-ass... eventually
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After re-reading your info and seeing the combination is under 3000#s, I don't understand why it's not already well into the 9s. My junk ran 10.5s at 126 (6.6s at 101-102 in the 1/8th) at over 3700#s w/ a far more conservative combination.
I don't think you need a different cam; I think you need more cubic inches to make the rest of the combination you have work better.
EDIT: If you're "stuck" w/ changing only the cam, I'd say use the first cam in your list to see how much mid-range torque you can recover vs. that big-a$$ 'stick in there now.
Last edited by BradH; 02/05/15 12:18 PM.
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Re: Help pick a cam Agan a lttle long
[Re: 67mprfan]
#1746695
02/05/15 12:27 PM
02/05/15 12:27 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 10,016 Frostbitefalls MN (Rocky&Bullw...
gregsdart
I Live Here
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I Live Here
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Frostbitefalls MN (Rocky&Bullw...
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Those heads on a 451 will run best at a higher rpm by a bunch. You might be losing a lot to bad valve springs and lousy valve control. A motor like yours shouldn't quit making power till well into the 7,000 rpm range. If you have very good rockers and pushrods, put some good springs on it and get a cam that has somewhere around 276 to 280 duration, 108 or slightly higher LSA, and .700+ lift. Isky has a RR735 grind that looks good on paper for your application. It has 280/288/110 duration numbers, .735/.684 lift numbers. I have run this cam in my 528 and it pulled power past 7200 with a single four. If you cut your heads for some serious compression, (13+) this cam ought to make serious power. Put a 6,000 plus stall converter in front of it, and hang on.
8..603 156 mph best, 2905 lbs 549, indy 572-13, alky
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Re: Help pick a cam Agan a lttle long
[Re: gregsdart]
#1746696
02/05/15 01:13 PM
02/05/15 01:13 PM
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Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 561 USA
B3RE
mopar
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mopar
Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 561
USA
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Quote:
Those heads on a 451 will run best at a higher rpm by a bunch. You might be losing a lot to bad valve springs and lousy valve control. A motor like yours shouldn't quit making power till well into the 7,000 rpm range. If you have very good rockers and pushrods, put some good springs on it and get a cam that has somewhere around 276 to 280 duration, 108 or slightly higher LSA, and .700+ lift. Isky has a RR735 grind that looks good on paper for your application. It has 280/288/110 duration numbers, .735/.684 lift numbers. I have run this cam in my 528 and it pulled power past 7200 with a single four. If you cut your heads for some serious compression, (13+) this cam ought to make serious power. Put a 6,000 plus stall converter in front of it, and hang on.
I think we are on the same page here Greg. Big cam with small cubes is going to need more rpm. I think it has valvetrain instability, which will weaken the springs prematurely. Could be a combination of both at this point. I do think a smaller duration cam would help the bottom end some and avoid more gear and maybe get away with his current converter to get that 9 sec slip. It all comes back to whether or not he can turn the needed rpm without the motor laying down.
Mike Beachel
I didn't write the rules of math nor create the laws of physics, I am just bound by them.
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Re: Help pick a cam Agan a lttle long
[Re: B3RE]
#1746698
02/05/15 11:03 PM
02/05/15 11:03 PM
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Joined: May 2005
Posts: 1,030 ohio
67mprfan
OP
super stock
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OP
super stock
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 1,030
ohio
|
Quote:
Quote:
Those heads on a 451 will run best at a higher rpm by a bunch. You might be losing a lot to bad valve springs and lousy valve control. A motor like yours shouldn't quit making power till well into the 7,000 rpm range. If you have very good rockers and pushrods, put some good springs on it and get a cam that has somewhere around 276 to 280 duration, 108 or slightly higher LSA, and .700+ lift. Isky has a RR735 grind that looks good on paper for your application. It has 280/288/110 duration numbers, .735/.684 lift numbers. I have run this cam in my 528 and it pulled power past 7200 with a single four. If you cut your heads for some serious compression, (13+) this cam ought to make serious power. Put a 6,000 plus stall converter in front of it, and hang on.
I think we are on the same page here Greg. Big cam with small cubes is going to need more rpm. I think it has valvetrain instability, which will weaken the springs prematurely. Could be a combination of both at this point. I do think a smaller duration cam would help the bottom end some and avoid more gear and maybe get away with his current converter to get that 9 sec slip. It all comes back to whether or not he can turn the needed rpm without the motor laying down.
First off let me say Thanks for everyone input
Now new springs are n the upgrade list but just trying to figure out this cam deal, so I can get the right ones. the conv is out and will be sending it to UCC for a refreshing and talk to Lenny about spec change. PLEASE don't beat me to bad on this one but rocker are crane gold 1.5s
71 demon stock stroke 440/indy ez-1 running 10.10 @ 132.14 mph in the 1/4 and 6.36 @ 107.46 mph in the 1/8 not in the same weekend but It did it then I sold it. 67 Belvedere that worked it's way in the 10's
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Re: Help pick a cam Agan a lttle long
[Re: 67mprfan]
#1746699
02/06/15 12:32 AM
02/06/15 12:32 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 10,016 Frostbitefalls MN (Rocky&Bullw...
gregsdart
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 10,016
Frostbitefalls MN (Rocky&Bullw...
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Hopefully you have time to research this deal, and figure out what is going to work best for you. Those Gold rockers aren't as stout as some rockers from what I here, and it may take some research to figure out a combo that is right for your deal. The right amount of spring, lobe profile and lift will all come into play. There are a number of guys on this board that have run those rockers, myself included. I didn't run enough spring or rpm to hurt mine though. Good luck with it, and keep us posted.
8..603 156 mph best, 2905 lbs 549, indy 572-13, alky
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