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whats a better car to build for handling b or a body? #1736189 01/22/15 05:53 AM 01/22/15 05:53 AM
Joined: Dec 2009 Posts: 793 United states wisconsin bigblockbryan OP super stock
bigblockbryan OP super stock Joined: Dec 2009 Posts: 793 United states wisconsin	i am curious about building my super bee clone for a little better handling then stock like as good as like a 80s-90s muscle car my car currently is shell its mini tubbed with frame connectors. Is there any thing i can do budget wise to improve its handling or would it be cheaper to get lets say 67-9 barracuda or a demon.I am just curious about this 8404422-10620268_10152216315036082_7390946578125231520_o.jpg (93 downloads)

Re: whats a better car to build for handling b or a body? [Re: bigblockbryan] #1736190 01/22/15 06:37 AM 01/22/15 06:37 AM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 8,089 Sorrento, BC, Canada 4speeds4me master
4speeds4me master Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 8,089 Sorrento, BC, Canada	Oh goodness...that oughta open up a can of worms! There's a slew of upper control arms to give you more caster/camber adjustments, sway bars, springs/4-links, aftermarket steering boxes/upgrades. It really comes down to what you want/have to spend. As for the second half of that question- aside from saving some weight, you're going to be buying the same parts for an A-body that you would for the B-body. Looking at the thread on car weight bias, on average they all seem to be about 55/45 front to rear, so no real advantage there. Can you afford to build 2 cars? Might be worth doing an A-body for corner carving if you can. Money's tight? Take advantage of other's knowledge ahead of you. Pay particular attention to ones like AlexP's build in this section. Keep your eyes peeled for the deals and build away! 2 Demons...no, not my kids!

Re: whats a better car to build for handling b or a body? [Re: 4speeds4me] #1736191 01/22/15 07:23 AM 01/22/15 07:23 AM
Joined: Jan 2005 Posts: 4,862 the frozen wastes... Pale_Roader Swears too much
Pale_Roader Swears too much Joined: Jan 2005 Posts: 4,862 the frozen wastes...	Though I'D run a B-body, its hard not to say A-body. The answer is A-body. Though, tire size limitation is a factor. The B's... some ov them anyways can eat up a lot more tire than an A-body. Though... as i type that i think about 72Swinger's car... He's certainly got enough meat... so again, yeah, its hard not to say A-body. Between the tire size thing, the appearance thing (71 Demons look good, but not 71RR/69RR/68-9 Charger good...), and the width (wider track)... i'll still take the B-body. I'm a weight-reduction master anyways.

Re: whats a better car to build for handling b or a body? [Re: Pale_Roader] #1736192 01/22/15 07:54 AM 01/22/15 07:54 AM
Joined: Feb 2011 Posts: 4,302 Nebraska 72Swinger master
72Swinger master Joined: Feb 2011 Posts: 4,302 Nebraska	Quote: Though I'D run a B-body, its hard not to say A-body. The answer is A-body. Though, tire size limitation is a factor. The B's... some ov them anyways can eat up a lot more tire than an A-body. Though... as i type that i think about 72Swinger's car... He's certainly got enough meat... so again, yeah, its hard not to say A-body. Between the tire size thing, the appearance thing (71 Demons look good, but not 71RR/69RR/68-9 Charger good...), and the width (wider track)... i'll still take the B-body. I'm a weight-reduction master anyways. well thanks for the compliment Pale lol! They all can be made to handle exceptional really. It all comes down to grip and balance IMO. A BB B body will out handle a BB A body 9 out of 10 times, even in stock form. A B body with an aluminium SB and 315's at all 4 corners would be a serious handler, just wonder why nobody seems to try that big of tire. Mopar to the bone!!!

Re: whats a better car to build for handling b or a body? [Re: 72Swinger] #1736193 01/22/15 11:41 AM 01/22/15 11:41 AM
Joined: May 2005 Posts: 256 USA C Consulier enthusiast
Consulier enthusiast C Joined: May 2005 Posts: 256 USA	Quote: A B body with an aluminium SB and 315's at all 4 corners would be a serious handler, just wonder why nobody seems to try that big of tire. The rear would be easy, but the front would take some work.

Re: whats a better car to build for handling b or a body? [Re: Consulier] #1736194 01/22/15 12:20 PM 01/22/15 12:20 PM
Joined: Oct 2012 Posts: 1,106 Northeast V VincentVega super stock
VincentVega super stock V Joined: Oct 2012 Posts: 1,106 Northeast	Late B's have inner fenders in the front that unbolt. now, while they're part of the frame, you could offset that with a roll cage-style front structure. man you could fit some tires then I'd agree with B body, just because of track width alone. Forget the aluminum smallblock. Here's two interesting possibilities. Indy now makes an aluminum B block (i.e. 383/400). Man I want one of those. Or an aluminum 225, set back as far as possible ahh... if only I were rich Check out this B body 4 door autox setup, with tire test https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yfVC2qOJ_lU Looking for 1975 through 1978 B body 4 door sedan sheet metal or parts cars - monaco, fury, coronet. Please let me know

Re: whats a better car to build for handling b or a body? [Re: bigblockbryan] #1736195 01/22/15 02:19 PM 01/22/15 02:19 PM
Joined: Oct 2013 Posts: 380 Escondido CA USA Tomswheels enthusiast
Tomswheels enthusiast Joined: Oct 2013 Posts: 380 Escondido CA USA	I'd build whatever car you LIKE the best. Since you already have the B, I don't think buying an A would b really be cheaper. That being said, handling follows weight, and if you are going to be Autocrossing a tight course, an A has an advantage... 8404604-image.jpg (93 downloads)

Re: whats a better car to build for handling b or a body? [Re: Tomswheels] #1736196 01/22/15 03:26 PM 01/22/15 03:26 PM
Joined: Feb 2010 Posts: 1,645 Phila. Pa. Mattax top fuel
Mattax top fuel Joined: Feb 2010 Posts: 1,645 Phila. Pa.	I agree. Autocross, A (or E); Rally, A; B's extra wheel base and track width could be an advantage for on road course and circle track. I think you'll find more B-bodies ran in the roundy-round circuits than A's.

Re: whats a better car to build for handling b or a body? [Re: Mattax] #1736197 01/22/15 03:55 PM 01/22/15 03:55 PM
Joined: Sep 2003 Posts: 10,645 Houston, Tx A AlexP I Live Here
AlexP I Live Here A Joined: Sep 2003 Posts: 10,645 Houston, Tx	Tire size and engine bay size really limit the A-body. My Build thread: Let the hemi swap begin! 1968 wanna be pro touring whatchamacallit with some fancy stuff and a new roof skin.

Re: whats a better car to build for handling b or a body? [Re: bigblockbryan] #1736198 01/22/15 05:48 PM 01/22/15 05:48 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 5,388 Pikes Peak Country T TC@HP2 master
TC@HP2 master T Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 5,388 Pikes Peak Country	Quote: i am curious about building my super bee clone for a little better handling then stock like as good as like a 80s-90s muscle car my car currently is shell its mini tubbed with frame connectors. Is there any thing i can do budget wise to improve its handling or would it be cheaper to get lets say 67-9 barracuda or a demon.I am just curious about this Based on the bolded sections above, no reason to search out an A body since you already have something to start with. A little bit better is not hard to do, and a little bit doesn't have to cost a lot. Since you already have sub frame connectors, next thing to do would be step up the spring rates and step up the shock rates. This will make things a little bit better for not a lot of dough. $300 for T-bars, $200 for leaf springs, $400 for shocks. That's the basic foundation you need. Combine it with a more modern, radial friendly alignment (ask for an '05 Mustang at the shop) and your '68 will now handle more like a '90 Mustang. There are a lot of others things you can spend money on after that to further refine its manners, but that is the most basic starting point.

Re: whats a better car to build for handling b or a body? [Re: TC@HP2] #1736199 01/22/15 06:25 PM 01/22/15 06:25 PM
Joined: Sep 2007 Posts: 14,889 up yours Supercuda About to go away
Supercuda About to go away Joined: Sep 2007 Posts: 14,889 up yours	Quote: and your '68 will now handle more like a '90 Mustang. I sure hope a 90 Stang handles a heck of a lot better than my 86 Stang did, which I doubt. My 65 Cuda handled better stock. The stock 4 link rear in the stang is too loosey goosey for me. They say there are no such thing as a stupid question. They say there is always the exception that proves the rule. Don't be the exception.

Re: whats a better car to build for handling b or a body? [Re: TC@HP2] #1736200 01/22/15 08:27 PM 01/22/15 08:27 PM
Joined: Feb 2010 Posts: 1,645 Phila. Pa. Mattax top fuel
Mattax top fuel Joined: Feb 2010 Posts: 1,645 Phila. Pa.	Heh, Tony. You're right on both counts. My apologies for joining the sidetrack. So I'll add this to your suggestions to the OP: Within your parameters lose weight where and when you get the chance. This includes unsprung weight. Keep the car at stock height or slightly lower, this includes the rear. Lowering done right reduces both center of gravity and the roll centers. This is all no or minimal additional costs to your rebuild or replacement or worn parts. (Exception to lower than stock would be if you drive on unpaved roads - then keep stock hieghts and use a tire appropriate for that.) Front sway bar is a must. Your own taste in steering feel will dictate the box to use. Use a slightly more agressive alignment than stock that will match your taste for a more sporty feel. Also as indicated above most modern radial tires, especially sporty ones, prefer more negative camber than the factory spec'd. More caster than the factory spec'd will help offset the body roll and help high speed stability. However there is such thing as too much caster, and also it can cause the steering wheel to snap back to center if you let go. For brakes, make sure you get the correct shoes for the hardware. Take you're time on getting them working right. Bleed 'em. When its time to replace pads or shoes, take whatever steps you can to get linings that work well in the temperature range you'll need. The FMSI edge codes are of some help. EE minimum for someone who cares. EF or FF is even better. Pricer alternative is a place like Rochester Brake and Clutch or Porterfield.

Re: whats a better car to build for handling b or a body? [Re: bigblockbryan] #1736201 01/22/15 08:37 PM 01/22/15 08:37 PM
Joined: Dec 2003 Posts: 22,696 Bitopia J jcc If you can't dazzle em with diamonds..
jcc If you can't dazzle em with diamonds.. J Joined: Dec 2003 Posts: 22,696 Bitopia	One thing I don't see mentioned yet, with an A body, you can be a lot more aggressive with the mods with little concern with reversibility, as the car is also likely a bit less desirable and/or collectible. Reality check, that half the population is smarter then 50% of the people and it's a constantly contested fact.

Re: whats a better car to build for handling b or a body? [Re: jcc] #1736202 01/22/15 09:09 PM 01/22/15 09:09 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 8,089 Sorrento, BC, Canada 4speeds4me master
4speeds4me master Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 8,089 Sorrento, BC, Canada	Quote: One thing I don't see mentioned yet, with an A body, you can be a lot more aggressive with the mods with little concern with reversibility, as the car is also likely a bit less desirable and/or collectible. On the flip side, he's already stated it's a "clone," so less of a concern regarding affecting the value. 2 Demons...no, not my kids!

Re: whats a better car to build for handling b or a body? [Re: 4speeds4me] #1736203 01/23/15 12:57 AM 01/23/15 12:57 AM
Joined: Oct 2003 Posts: 21,345 Marysville, O-H-I-O 70Cuda383 Too Many Posts
70Cuda383 Too Many Posts Joined: Oct 2003 Posts: 21,345 Marysville, O-H-I-O	I had 315s up front and 335 in the rear of my Dakota for awhile. Not advisable on the street. Tires wanted to find their own way down the road, crowns, ruts, etc made the truck wander, steering felt loose, broken, unpredictable, yet responsive at the same time. It was unnerving at times. Might not be a problem in a flat parking lot auto cross or road course environment though Photobucket sucks

Re: whats a better car to build for handling b or a body? [Re: AlexP] #1736204 01/23/15 02:28 AM 01/23/15 02:28 AM
Joined: Oct 2013 Posts: 380 Escondido CA USA Tomswheels enthusiast
Tomswheels enthusiast Joined: Oct 2013 Posts: 380 Escondido CA USA	It fits a small block, and I run 285 Fronts and 305 Rears, so it's not too bad.... 8405300-image.jpg (111 downloads)

Re: whats a better car to build for handling b or a body? [Re: Tomswheels] #1736205 01/23/15 04:24 AM 01/23/15 04:24 AM
Joined: Feb 2011 Posts: 4,302 Nebraska 72Swinger master
72Swinger master Joined: Feb 2011 Posts: 4,302 Nebraska	Quote: It fits a small block, and I run 285 Fronts and 305 Rears, so it's not too bad.... thems pizza cutters lol.... Mopar to the bone!!!

Re: whats a better car to build for handling b or a body? [Re: 72Swinger] #1736206 01/23/15 07:35 AM 01/23/15 07:35 AM
Joined: Dec 2009 Posts: 793 United states wisconsin bigblockbryan OP super stock
bigblockbryan OP super stock Joined: Dec 2009 Posts: 793 United states wisconsin	the car mainly will be street driven not much for road racing in wisconsin i was toying with the idea of getting one of the Hotchkis suspension kits.Since the cars gonna complete front end rebuild kit torsion bars disc brake conversion and leaf springs i figure it out do every thing stock itd be close to 1500.So whats another 1500 you got a car that will handle better i'm starting to get intrested in building a 400 over a 440 or wont there be a big diffrence.With a b body i also want fast 2.0 fuel injection on it and a six speed manual this car wont be done for a about 3 years i just learned alot when i built my fury and i just wanna have one really kick ass super bee clone. mainly drive train it might not have carpet or a back seat and im also planning on adding a 68-70 gas filler to it also

Re: whats a better car to build for handling b or a body? [Re: bigblockbryan] #1736207 01/23/15 08:00 AM 01/23/15 08:00 AM
Joined: Feb 2011 Posts: 4,302 Nebraska 72Swinger master
72Swinger master Joined: Feb 2011 Posts: 4,302 Nebraska	Quote: the car mainly will be street driven not much for road racing in wisconsin i was toying with the idea of getting one of the Hotchkis suspension kits.Since the cars gonna complete front end rebuild kit torsion bars disc brake conversion and leaf springs i figure it out do every thing stock itd be close to 1500.So whats another 1500 you got a car that will handle better i'm starting to get intrested in building a 400 over a 440 or wont there be a big diffrence.With a b body i also want fast 2.0 fuel injection on it and a six speed manual this car wont be done for a about 3 years i just learned alot when i built my fury and i just wanna have one really kick ass super bee clone. mainly drive train it might not have carpet or a back seat and im also planning on adding a 68-70 gas filler to it also Not much for Road Racing in WI? I thought Elkhart Lake was in WISCONCIN? I think there is a pretty sweet track around there abouts.... Mopar to the bone!!!

Re: whats a better car to build for handling b or a body? [Re: Tomswheels] #1736208 01/23/15 12:06 PM 01/23/15 12:06 PM
Joined: May 2005 Posts: 256 USA C Consulier enthusiast
Consulier enthusiast C Joined: May 2005 Posts: 256 USA	Quote: It fits a small block, and I run 285 Fronts and 305 Rears, so it's not too bad.... What did you have to do to get the 285 to fit? If you have a thread with the details, please point the way.

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