Which valve springs for Max wedge Victors and 0.770"
#1726979
01/11/15 06:40 AM
01/11/15 06:40 AM
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Joined: May 2008
Posts: 5,399 Aurora, Colorado
451Mopar
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Aurora, Colorado
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Looking to find a spring for the Hughes CNC max wedge victors that can handle a 0.770" lift solid (mid 270's duration?) roller cam with only a 1.900" install height? After looking over the new heads, the spring seats really can't be cut for more install height because the intake port is pretty tall and not much material seperating the inner intake seat from the port. Right now I am measuring 1.880" install height with a standard retainer and locks, and no spring seat or cup. If I wanted to use my PAC 1325 springs with a 2.00" install height, 0.060" spring seat, and +0.100" retainers, I would need valve that are about 0.100" longer? I measured the valve length at 5.375", and if I was going to change the valves, I would be looking at custom 5.5550" length valves to use with a standard retainer. So it looks like it would be easier to just find a valve spring that will work. The heads are machined to 1.710" spring pocket, but I'm not sure if the T&D rockers will clear a 1.625" diameter spring?
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Re: Which valve springs for Max wedge Victors and 0.770"
[Re: quickd100]
#1726981
01/11/15 11:02 AM
01/11/15 11:02 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 10,010 Frostbitefalls MN (Rocky&Bullw...
gregsdart
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There are different spring seat thicknesses as well. It shouldn't be a big issue to find stuff to get you to enough height for a .770 gross lift. I used Manley +.050 keepers, and if I recall +.100 Manley retainers with the thinnest cups I could find and am able to get 2.050 on 440-1 heads.
8..603 156 mph best, 2905 lbs 549, indy 572-13, alky
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Re: Which valve springs for Max wedge Victors and 0.770"
[Re: 451Mopar]
#1726982
01/11/15 02:22 PM
01/11/15 02:22 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 16,928 NC
440Jim
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Quote:
Looking to find a spring for the Hughes CNC max wedge victors that can handle a 0.770" lift solid (mid 270's duration?) roller cam with only a 1.900" install height?
These might do it for you. Manley: 221424-16 250 at 2.000 800 at 1.150 coil bind 1.070 1.64" OD 0.87" ID
But it would be nice if you could have the heads setup for 1.95 or more installed height. The T&D individual cylinder paired rockers should clear the valve springs (they do on my 440-1 heads with 1.65 T&D). But from what other's have posted, the single shaft per head design could have issues with the 1.63" dia valve springs. Do a search.
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Re: Which valve springs for Max wedge Victors and 0.770"
[Re: quickd100]
#1726984
01/11/15 03:14 PM
01/11/15 03:14 PM
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Joined: May 2008
Posts: 5,399 Aurora, Colorado
451Mopar
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On my old victor heads, I used a +0.100" retainer and a +0.050" lock setup, but the inside of the rocker hit the retainer before the valve tip. That was without lash caps. I think with lash caps, it may have worked?
I was looking at the COMP 951 valve springs, but it is 1.620 diameter? It would be 262 @ 1.900", 742 @ 1.150", coil binds @ 1.100". I was planning to use the +0.100" retainers. Most of the spring seats I have seen are around 0.060"?
I'll have to look up some of those other springs
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Re: Which valve springs for Max wedge Victors and 0.770"
[Re: 451Mopar]
#1726985
01/11/15 03:55 PM
01/11/15 03:55 PM
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Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 9,100 Rogue River, OR
Jeremiah
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I mocked up the same deal with +.100 retainers and +.050 locks and there was not nearly enough valve tip height. I think we are either going to be stuck using +.100 retainers or +.050/.100 locks. My street roller is right around .750 lift with the lash factored in so you might have additional challenges if you are going to have .770 net lift. This exact topic is one of the reasons I am considering moving to a paired rocker setup like Jesel or T&D. Even then I might have to install longer valves. I'm shopping machinists so we will see how feasible my plan is cost wise. I have asked some of the same questions on my 66 Charger build thread. As usual I didn't get any responses. Here are the Isky 9999-RAD specs: Specifications: Style: Dual with Damper Outer OD/ID: 1.600"/1.150" Inner OD/ID: 1.040"/.745" Seat Pressure: 250 lbs. @ 2.000" Open Pressure: 770 lbs. @ 1.200" Rate: 650 Coil Bind: 1.150" Max Lift: .800" They are 283 @ 1.950 and 738 @ 1.250 Keep me posted on what you decide to use. I can use all of the help I can get because I don't have a clue on this stuff lol.
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Re: Which valve springs for Max wedge Victors and 0.770"
[Re: AndyF]
#1726987
01/11/15 10:08 PM
01/11/15 10:08 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 6,392 nielsville, minn.
quickd100
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nielsville, minn.
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Quote:
I went thru this issue with my EZ heads when I moved past .800 lift. What worked for me was to buy a bunch of different locks and retainers and then try the different combinations.
You only have to buy one retainer for the test, not the whole set of 16. I think I ended up buying about 5 or 6 different brands of retainers and locks. The advertised measurements did not match the real measurements.
You have to double check the rocker arm clearance with every combination so that adds to the work.
I'm a dumb Millwright so I've got 6 sets of retainers and 3 sets of keepers now. I ended up using Howards +.100 retainers, Manley +.050 keepers, and Manley lashcaps. I also had to relieve the rockerarms for valve retainer clearance.I had to grind the lashcaps to fit them to the stem and keepers. This was on my Hemi, you wedge guys got it made as far as valve train issues. The valvetrain on a Hemi will drive you to drink but in the end it's well worth the extra hassle.Dave
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Re: Which valve springs for Max wedge Victors and 0.770"
[Re: AndyF]
#1726994
01/13/15 02:27 AM
01/13/15 02:27 AM
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Joined: May 2008
Posts: 5,399 Aurora, Colorado
451Mopar
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Quote:
The PAC-1335 is a really nasty spring so you might want to talk to PAC before you use it. They might want you to use a Ti valve depending on your cam profile. The PAC-1225 is probably a better spring for you and they cost half as much but you'll need to find the extra installed height.
Thanks. I have the PAC-1325 (expensive 1225) springs on my old Max wedge Victors with +0.100" Ti Crower retainers, but the spring pockets were cut so I have 1.950" install height. That left about 0.050" thickness between the pocket and unported port. The CNC Victors only have a bit over 0.010" between the spring pocket and port.
I will mock-up my T&D shaft rockers at the 1.900" install height and see how large of a diameter spring will clear.
Right now I am looking at using a COMP 2232/2235 HXL cam 301/307 advertised, 272/278@0.050" duration 0.726"/0.726" lift with a 1.6:1 rocker arm. (originally, I mis-read the specs, it is 0.772 with a 1.7:1 rocker arm.) For a spring, the COMP 951 looks like it will work if it clears the rocker arms (it is 1.620" diameter.)
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Re: Which valve springs for Max wedge Victors and 0.770"
[Re: Jeremiah]
#1726995
01/13/15 03:09 PM
01/13/15 03:09 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 16,928 NC
440Jim
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Quote:
Jim did you have someone install your paired T&D setup and if so can would you recommend them? I have been looking at "fixing" my Victors with either paired T&D or paired Jesel stuff. There isn't anyone around here that does stuff like that as far as I know.
BEST Machine did these heads. I bought them used from the original purchaser who bought them from BEST.
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Re: Which valve springs for Max wedge Victors and 0.770"
[Re: 451Mopar]
#1726996
01/13/15 06:26 PM
01/13/15 06:26 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 15,439 Val-haul-ass... eventually
BradH
Taking time off to work on my car
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Taking time off to work on my car
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 15,439
Val-haul-ass... eventually
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Quote:
Right now I am looking at using a COMP 2232/2235 HXL cam 301/307 advertised, 272/278@0.050" duration 0.726"/0.726" lift with a 1.6:1 rocker arm.
Just my - When I was working w/ Dwayne Porter on getting a new roller for my Victor-headed 440 combo, he looked briefly at the HXL lobes and then said he thought better of it because he knows I actually drive my junk on the street (at least when it's running ).
He backed it down to the RX lobes due to the success he's seen w/ valvetrain life w/ that lobe series. Not sure how much of a street/strip application yours is, but I figured I'd pass that on.
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Re: Which valve springs for Max wedge Victors and 0.770"
[Re: BradH]
#1726997
01/13/15 09:18 PM
01/13/15 09:18 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 151 N.E. Ohio
OhioGTX
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I have had decent luck with K-Motion K-950 springs and Victor heads. My cam is 280@50 with .714 lift. (using 1.6 rockers); I have Ti retainers, Harland Sharp rockers and old school mopar lack wrinkle valve covers. I mention the valve covers because I hear others speak of clearance issues. I have no clearance issues. My Victor heads are standard port if that makes a difference. The engine has seen 7200+ rpm many times with no issues to report other than some broken dampeners, this after 4+ years and a good number of passes. I am sure plenty of other springs will work Comp-943, PAC 1225, etc. come to mind. The car with this setup runs very consistent 9.70’s at 3500lbs.
68 GTX, 9.38 at 144, Best Machine 540..
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Re: Which valve springs for Max wedge Victors and 0.770"
[Re: BradH]
#1726998
01/13/15 10:19 PM
01/13/15 10:19 PM
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Joined: May 2008
Posts: 5,399 Aurora, Colorado
451Mopar
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Well, not going to be doing very much street driving with this car now that I have the convertible running, but it is still a really heavy car, so looking to still get a good amount of torque out of it. Looking at the 4,000 to 7,000 RPM range. For now I will use the Indy single plane and 4150 Holley HP (1,000 cfm) carb. I'd like to get the Indy tunnel ram with dual 750 cfm E-85 carbs and run E-85, but I don't have the $$$ for that now or anytime in the near future
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Re: Which valve springs for Max wedge Victors and 0.770"
[Re: OhioGTX]
#1726999
01/13/15 10:41 PM
01/13/15 10:41 PM
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Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 41 PA
R5P7 Bantam
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Quote:
I have had decent luck with K-Motion K-950 springs and Victor heads. My cam is [Email]280@50[/Email] with .714 lift. (using 1.6 rockers); I have Ti retainers, Harland Sharp rockers and old school mopar lack wrinkle valve covers. I mention the valve covers because I hear others speak of clearance issues. I have no clearance issues. My Victor heads are standard port if that makes a difference. The engine has seen 7200+ rpm many times with no issues to report other than some broken dampeners, this after 4+ years and a good number of passes. I am sure plenty of other springs will work Comp-943, PAC 1225, etc. come to mind. The car with this setup runs very consistent 9.70’s at 3500lbs.
That K-950 spring is an excellent spring for the money. I have used this spring on countless engines with fantastic longevity. For the ~$250 price tag, we would get 500-600 runs before replacing. Yes I broke a few over the years, but after 500+ runs, the spring pressures were within 10-12 lbs of initial installation weight. To me, it's one of the most unknown "good" springs in the 1.55" dia.
Mike
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