what gains did you find with dry sump?
#1708612
12/09/14 03:13 PM
12/09/14 03:13 PM
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Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 4,055 Salina ks
572_dup2
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Find any power or see any e.t difference? If you were using vacuum pump did you remove it?
Shawn Jennings
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Re: what gains did you find with dry sump?
[Re: 572_dup2]
#1708613
12/09/14 04:19 PM
12/09/14 04:19 PM
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972 Romeo MI
MR_P_BODY
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On my W-9 engine(405ci) I cant say what the gain would be because I built it with the dry sump from the get-go but with just the dry sump I would make 12"hg at RPM and maybe 1"hg at idle.. if you use both a dry sump and a vac pump you will most likely need a check valve to limit the vac level... myself, I dont like to go above 14"hg
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Re: what gains did you find with dry sump?
[Re: 572_dup2]
#1708614
12/09/14 04:28 PM
12/09/14 04:28 PM
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Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 28,312 Cincinnati, Ohio
Challenger 1
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Quote:
Find any power or see any e.t difference? If you were using vacuum pump did you remove it?
I found much better oiling control on a stroker motor with a dry sump. How much more HP? I don't know but it is all about the oil control on strokers IMO, with dry sumps.
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Re: what gains did you find with dry sump?
[Re: AndyF]
#1708616
12/09/14 05:44 PM
12/09/14 05:44 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 19,375 Las Vegas
Al_Alguire
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Well from my experience we saw nothing on the track. Now this was done on two different motors making a fair amount of power(1100 and 1300). But a 20hp gain likely would not show up on the track. These were both low tension oil ring deals using vacuum pumps both pulling 18+. We were able to loose the vacuum pump on one suing a Dailey pump. The Dailey was able to pull 20+ without a vac pump. The other was a Moroso pump but we had to use a Vac pump as well to get the desired 18". Neither of these were dynode after the change so I cannot say for sure there was no power gained, but bear in mind at the ET these cars ran 20hp will likely not show anymore than a small change in the weather would.
Having said all that if you can afford a dry sump system I think it is a worthwhile investment. As mentioned the oil control is far superior to any wet sump system can be. The ability to warm the oil as well is a plus as well as the ease of pre lubing before the day starts. My Predator deal is a dry sump motor, being built for that purpose. Will have a low tension oil ring(actually uses a very small ringpack all together). We have a vacuum pump as well if we need to use it. Likely we will as it a Moroso pump.
Whether the $2700-$3700 expense is worth it that is a question only you can answer. Is there power there, I would think some. I have never seen any back to back dyno stuff on an engine with a good wet sump system vs a dry sump. I can tell you most heads up organizations have a weight penalty for a dry sump in the naturally aspirated classes. Generally 5% of engine size in pounds.
"I am not ashamed to confess I am ignorant of what I do not know."
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Re: what gains did you find with dry sump?
[Re: Al_Alguire]
#1708617
12/09/14 06:02 PM
12/09/14 06:02 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 19,375 Las Vegas
Al_Alguire
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Just wanted to ad this tidbot since it is a Mopar site. I think if you run a typical Mopar style deal, meaning Milodon pump, stockish pan and typical windage tray that you likely would see a definite gain in HP going to a dry sump. The better the wet sump system the smaller the gain will be.
I have witnessed a very strong running SB 2.2(1006hp)go from an external wet sump to a dry sump and gain nothing. Just saying....
"I am not ashamed to confess I am ignorant of what I do not know."
"It's never wrong to do the right thing"
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Re: what gains did you find with dry sump?
[Re: AndyF]
#1708619
12/09/14 06:15 PM
12/09/14 06:15 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
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Al_Alguire
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Andy I do not disagree with what you are saying, also why I added that second reply. On a typical Mopar system that 98% of the people use there will likely be a gain. On the other 2% likely not. I was just answering the question as to ET and MPH gains. Form my personal experience on the track we could not see any difference in how the car accelerated down the track. But I think the one big variable is how good was the car/combo before the change. Don't get me wrong I will use a dry sump whenever I can for an all out race engine provided packaging is not an issue.
"I am not ashamed to confess I am ignorant of what I do not know."
"It's never wrong to do the right thing"
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Re: what gains did you find with dry sump?
[Re: Al_Alguire]
#1708620
12/09/14 08:18 PM
12/09/14 08:18 PM
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Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 4,055 Salina ks
572_dup2
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Thanks for the insite. I'm looking for ways to make more power an see some e.t. gains.
Shawn Jennings
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Re: what gains did you find with dry sump?
[Re: Al_Alguire]
#1708622
12/09/14 08:43 PM
12/09/14 08:43 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
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Al_Alguire
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Seriously not sure you will see any big gains from a dry sump unless you have a less than optimal wet sump system.
One other thing to think about with a dry sump is packaging. They take up ALOT of room. With a stock K member, or steering cannot be an easy fit. Even with an aftermarket K and rack it was a challenge and very very tight on our 68 Barracuda.
"I am not ashamed to confess I am ignorant of what I do not know."
"It's never wrong to do the right thing"
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Re: what gains did you find with dry sump?
[Re: AndyF]
#1708625
12/10/14 05:45 PM
12/10/14 05:45 PM
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Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 1,664 North Sweden
RT540
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With the alu. Oil pan that I saw on your new Indy alum. block a couple of months ago(in a pict.), there should be some hp improvement. Front of the pan and the square hole both add to more oil that will follow the rotating parts. Have you looked at Daileys and Autoverdis billet pans for BAE hemi blocks? Pump is placed on the right side and you have an extra wheel for belt tension. Don't know how or if the BAE billet pan will fit your Indy block and main caps? http://www.daileyengineering.com/hemi_426.htmhttp://www.autoverdi.com/pumps2.html#panI suspect that four roots style scavange sections with the right size(wide) would eliminate the need for an extra vacuum pump in your 572.
Last edited by RT540; 12/10/14 05:48 PM.
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Re: what gains did you find with dry sump?
[Re: 572_dup2]
#1708626
12/10/14 08:41 PM
12/10/14 08:41 PM
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Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 6,890 North Alabama
Monte_Smith
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Quote:
Thanks for the insite. I'm looking for ways to make more power an see some e.t. gains.
If the above comments are your ultimate goal, this is likely not the place to go on this quest. Dry sump better?......yes..........will you see it on the ticket?.....highly unlikely
Monte
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Re: what gains did you find with dry sump?
[Re: Quicktree]
#1708630
12/11/14 03:00 PM
12/11/14 03:00 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 19,375 Las Vegas
Al_Alguire
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The only weight gained will be the oil tank itself, two or three more lines, a belt and pulley, and a few lbs on for the pump itself. I cannot imagine it being more than maybe 15lbs if that. Guess it depends on what you had on it before and how much oil. Never thought to weigh them both.
"I am not ashamed to confess I am ignorant of what I do not know."
"It's never wrong to do the right thing"
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