1970 440 4spd RR actually stroked 493 need to replace old Hooker Comp headers. I believe this was posted before which headers do you use and why or why not. Pro's and Con's. With the TTI do you really have to use the Robb starter? Also pictures of how you ran the plug wires. Thanks Guys

i like the tti stuff. mainly because of ease of installation. i use the small mopar starter with my 2" tti headers. i have tti exhaust systems on both my cars and neither required any special parts.

I put Doug's on my 70 4 sp road runner. No real problems and they work great.
I went back and looked it up I do have Doug's

I'm running Doug's Headers "452" on my 493 in a 72 Cuda. Had to massage the header where it passed the steering column. These are 2" primarys forget ever being able to access the starter in car, I'm running a denso off of a dakota so its the small starter, still impossible to remove once in car. I drop the engine in with the starter already mounted, still takes a while to access wiring etc. I recently added power steering for my wifey, these headers are not designed to work with it and I put the steering box in with the engine in the car, otherwise I couldn't have done it. It touches the header and I had to massage it to fix that. I run jacobs spark plug wires with the ceramic boots after burning up several other brands, its the only ones I've found that will work without those nasty looking shields. The headers work great but I'm disappointed the ceramic coating started going away within a year. I can't say anything about the TTI's, but I do run the TTI exhaust system all the way back with the 3" pipe. That's a nice setup. I also run a cross pipe like came on the Hemi cars back in the day, whether it adds anything I don't know. The exhaust is so large I think any benefit it gave the hemi cars is lost. Hope this helps in your decision. [image][/image]

i use the DOUG'S "452" in my 70 runner 440 6pak, 2",fit is perfect, no more burnt plug boots, easy access to plugs, the heavy flange i think is key to them be leak free,got the ceramic coated and 2 years later still look new, i have no power steering and mine is an automatic, but they are a perfect fit, i did tilt the motor to drop in passenger side, but never even scratched the paint installing

Thanks for the info! Its amazing when you go to other sites how one guy has no issues and another is a nightmare. I'm still up in the air about this.

Bought them from summit, fyi DOUG'S and doug thorley are not the same buy from summit, don't like return them, summit is easy that way

Remember Dougs and Doug Thorley are two different companies.

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Forwardlook seems to have a straighter timeline on this confusing deal.

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I have not used either. I thought the consensus was one was a little better?? Or might matter product by product??

Yeah, two diferent companies. Here is a short timeline regarding Doug's and Doug Thorley. Posted on HAMB.

"Actually here is the real scoop. The original company that Doug Thorley started was a muffler shop back in 1958 in East LA. In the early 60's Doug started to make headers and "Headers by Doug" stickers started showing up on winning drag cars. Doug and wife Betty sold the company and got divorced and new owner Micky called it Doug Thorley Headers. A number of years went by and Micky got sick and asked for help. Betty came back in to run things and Micky got worse. He ended up selling the company back to Betty, Doug and a third partner. Doug mainly did R&D and was an investor. Eventually He and Betty had another falling out and she agreed to buy him out. Doug kind of stayed away at this time, occasionally coming around to help out with a little R&D and collect his payments. Betty then got sick and at this time Doug started doing custom headers again under the Doug's Headers name. During this time Doug Thorley Headers was mainly making truck and motor home headers, not muscle car or performance parts. Betty passed and Doug started making production headers again for the classic and muscle car markets. After about another year, the surviving partner sold Doug Thorley Headers to Summit Industries (not the mail order guys) in Corona, Ca who previously had bought out Jerry Jardine of Jardine Headers.
PerTronix, who had previously acquired Ermie Immerso Ind and Thunderbird Headers bought Doug's Headers and Doug worked to help keep the Doug's Headers line a top quality product. PerTronix sells and manufactures them as a premium line to compliment their Patriot Header line. They are currently made in Rancho Dominguez (think north Long Beach) CA.
Doug was also famous for his drag cars - The Chevy II Much that is in the NHRA museum, the Funny Car Corviar that Joe Piasano ended up with, and the pair of rear/mid engined Javelin's."

From what I have seen both TTI and Dougs are very good headers. Myself I use the TTI headers you see here and I use their complete exh system and it works and fits great. I use the normal Power Master mini starter as its nothing special and fits with no problems. I like the think flanges on my TTI's as they have never had a header gasket leak and they were easy to put on. Ron

I run TTI's on mine with their 3" exhaust system. '70E, B stroker and 5 speed. They fit exactly as advertised with common modern starter. The Ceramic coating has held up well and the headers and pipes have survived some bumps without problem.

I put flange connectors on the muffler end of the pipes so I could easily drop the pipes if needed.

By the way the TTI's in the pic on my 63 are the cheapest way you can get them as I bought them with no coating as they are nickel plated. You can get them with 2 different coatings on them but these are over 3 years old and holding up ok with no coating added. They started blueing just a little but the coated ones wont. Ron

I have TTI 2" headers on the 440 in my challenger. I'm using a plain old stock mopar starter.

I have 2" tti headers on my 67 Coronet with a 493.
I'm using a stock dakota starter and I have power steering and there was no problems installing them.

With the torsion bars out I was able to install mine with the motor mounts still attached.

My experience with both TTI and Doug's involve a 65 Coronet, both fit well, the Doug's were a lot more cost effective, my decision would be Doug's

Maybe set up a dart board in your garage and settle it that way!

Good luck,
Joey

I have Doug's D452 headers on my Savoy with Indy EZ heads and they fit perfect and the coating is still nice. The angle plugs on the Indy heads might provide extra clearance but my Firecore wires fit perfect as well not even close to the 2" tubes.
The only fit issue I had was the grease fitting on the pitman arm was dragging on the bottom of the pipes.
I had to remove the fitting and all was well
My combo also has an 11" 143 tooth wheel and a steel clutch can I had to notch the lip for tube clearance.
Gus

I have noticed that there is a big difference in headers regarding
primary lengths, i.e. some not anywhere near equal, nor is there a choice in many brands for primary lengths for RPM considerations.

I always thought equal length primaries were an advantage for scavenging or is this a non-issue for a street/strip engine??

Wade in guys!!

Joe

I have installed 5 different brands in 69-72 e and b body and by far the best fit is TTI when you consider wires and starter issues . I actually ran stock manifold type firecore wires on my TTI header B Body and with 100+ drag strip passes never burnt a wire or starter. After 10 years the coating still looked new and they never leaked. You can lower you motor on the K frame out from under the car with TTI headers still on the motor too . Pay a bit more for them and be happy. There is a reason they cost more, they are the best !!