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Work with what you have. A fast car seldom gets like that in one season!

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Work with what you have. A fast car seldom gets like that in one season!

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twin turbo's?

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Is it carb or injected? What's the combo run down?

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With the HP and weight you are at now it should be an easy 10.oh ride. Where are the numbers off? Is it spinning? Dieing on top end? Lot's of different things can cause poor ET compared to what it should go at your weight/hp. With that said, it sounds like something ain't working right.

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That's what I'm getting at. My Sons stock stroke 360 runs 10.50's to 10.70's at 3250 pounds and he's no where around 660HP.

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With the HP and weight you are at now it should be an easy 10.oh ride. Where are the numbers off? Is it spinning? Dieing on top end? Lot's of different things can cause poor ET compared to what it should go at your weight/hp. With that said, it sounds like something ain't working right.

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That's what I'm getting at. My Sons stock stroke 360 runs 10.50's to 10.70's at 3250 pounds and he's no where around 660HP.

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It lays over on the top end after shifting to 3rd, and even sometimes at the top of 2nd....

So at a race weight of 3480lbs, and a best trap speed of 124mph, what do you guys calculate? 660hp seems pretty close to me.

I know last year when it ran 10.84 there was another .10 in it of I sealed the carb to the hood.

I keep wondering about the MSD box though....

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525...... Maybe 550 horse. Before my w5 motor I had a 416 with flat tappet, mildly ported Eddie heads. Car weighed 3450 at that time as it still had the bench seat in it( and otherwise bone stock in and out 70 Duster) cage and my 300 pounds in it, and it ran 10.70's at right at 124 through the muffs. I figured it for close to 550, maybe a hair less.
I had a 6al do exactly what you are dealing with( lay over top of second and third) that I chased half of a season few years back..... Knocked about 5 or 6 tenths out of the car.
Swapped in a digital 6 at that time and never did it again

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Just had an MSD do the same thing Friday on the dyno--swapped out the distributor for fresh MSD unit and whamo! All good and pulled like it should-- It can be the module in the dist as well--you would never think it--I thought it should work or not work but found out different Engine would just layover above 5000--put exactly same curve we always use black stop and one light silver one blue spring--and she went to work and ran great--always...I mean always something.
I bet that Hemi is running out of fuel--has an elbow or something in the system or just not getting full voltage to the fuel pump--we always see giant swimming pool filler pumps with NO relays etc check and they are just not getting voltage--not pumping "what the box says" A drag car can run good with no symptom other than slow and low MPH--get fuel straight and it can really make a big diff
China regulators are trouble too--Best for the $$ is Aeromotive stuff--class act quality and good support--regulators are very nice units but remember are o ring fittings not pipe thread when planning your plumbing.

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Your ET / MPH computed from your vehicle weight of 3480 pounds and HP of 660 is 10.14 seconds and MPH of 133.30 MPH.

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It lays over on the top end after shifting to 3rd, and even sometimes at the top of 2nd....

So at a race weight of 3480lbs, and a best trap speed of 124mph, what do you guys calculate? 660hp seems pretty close to me.

I know last year when it ran 10.84 there was another .10 in it of I sealed the carb to the hood.

I keep wondering about the MSD box though....

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You say you almost have the motor out of the car. leak it down and then concentrate on fixing the fuel delivery problems My 518 C.I. 400 stroker made 727 HP on the dyno the last time I tested it, that motor ran 9.993 at 134.6 MPH at 3450 lbs with me in the car on Oregon 91 octane non ethanol pump swill through the full exhaust exiting at the rear bumper with the air cleaner on I di have a bunch of fuel delivery gremlins when I built the car, I used a BG 500 fuel filter(10 micron) between the pump and the gas tank Once I bought and used a LM1 wide ban I was able to idemtify it going lean at the hit of the throttle, it would still run mid tens at 127.= MPH It ran better when I fixed the fuel system, low tens at 128 + MPH Fix the obviuos(SP?) first after fixing the fuel delivery I hopped it up by using bigger and better heads, it went faster again

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Nope, not at 124 MPH, there is some HP missing. Needs a bigger carb and jetted accordingly. You might be surprised how big of jet I have in an 1150 dominator to give it what it needs.

First calculation I assumed the 3220 lbs was race weight. It should dip in the nines if everything is playing nice.

Little more weight...

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Your ET / MPH computed from your vehicle weight of 3480 pounds and HP of 660 is 10.14 seconds and MPH of 133.30 MPH.

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Give it fuel and air and let it eat.

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Is it carb or injected? What's the combo run down?

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Its carburated currently. It was injected previously and I have the injection unit but sold the ecu....

So currently it is:

484 cubes with a 4.15 crank and 4.31 JE pistons
11.5:1 compression
mild .600 lift mechanical chevy cam
426-1 Indy heads flowing 400cfm
1000cfm carb and port matched intake

Car is 4.10 gears
31" tires
4500 stall
car weighs 3220lbs

I had 4.56's in it last year with a 5000 stall, but hated all the rpm on the street.

It went 10.84 last year with the 4.56s and only 10.93 this year so far. Car is super drivable, so I have that covered...

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Sorted 2-circuit Dominator territory in my opinion.

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It lays over on the top end after shifting to 3rd, and even sometimes at the top of 2nd....

So at a race weight of 3480lbs, and a best trap speed of 124mph, what do you guys calculate? 660hp seems pretty close to me.

I know last year when it ran 10.84 there was another .10 in it of I sealed the carb to the hood.

I keep wondering about the MSD box though....

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Nope, not at 124 MPH, there is some HP missing. Needs a bigger carb and jetted accordingly. You might be surprised how big of jet I have in an 1150 dominator to give it what it needs.

First calculation I assumed the 3220 lbs was race weight. It should dip in the nines if everything is playing nice.

Little more weight...

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Your ET / MPH computed from your vehicle weight of 3480 pounds and HP of 660 is 10.14 seconds and MPH of 133.30 MPH.

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Give it fuel and air and let it eat.

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Well I know the carb is fine. That is the carb off the Duster and its been in the 9.70's already with a quickest pass of 6.14 in the 1/8th.

I am half tempted to put this engine on a dyno and see WTH is wrong with it. I will check the cam first as I had trouble with #8 intake most of the summer until I replaced the adjuster...Since then it has been good.

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OK, I don't doubt the carb is fine, but Hows the fuel pressure, what system pump are you using. Even good carbs wont work without fuel.

Laying down in third and sometimes at the top of second is a classic example of a fuel issue. But not always a guarantee. Fuel would be my bet Until I hear of your Fuel set up.

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Post a picture of your last ET slip from the track. HP is seen as MPH on the ET slip. If you were running 134 at the same ET, it would show you the problem was with getting the car off the line, etc... Just curious if you possibly have an RPM limiter on the car that's engaging at the top end, limiting your RPM. Just a thought. TD

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Post a picture of your last ET slip from the track. HP is seen as MPH on the ET slip. If you were running 134 at the same ET, it would show you the problem was with getting the car off the line, etc... Just curious if you possibly have an RPM limiter on the car that's engaging at the top end, limiting your RPM. Just a thought. TD

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It went 124mph at 10.84...

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It went 124mph at 10.84...

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The Wallace Racing calculator says 124 mph at 3480 lbs is 531 flywheel horsepower. ET is 540 hp

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Both ET AND MPH are way way down. Just a high side ignition miss wont bring back that much missing ET. ET is all made up in the eigth mile. Who specd the cam, and what are all the numbers on the head CFM, just not the "big" number?

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I don't understand Why your asking about the cam??

Drag, states that its laying down in third and sometimes in second.

Until That's , straightened out, you can forget about the cam numbers for now.


EDIT, also I haven't seen a 60 ft. number yet. That would be another good indicator of what may be going on. If its soft too, then yes, something other then fuel delivery will be the problem.

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It went 124mph at 10.84...

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The Wallace Racing calculator says 124 mph at 3480 lbs is 531 flywheel horsepower. ET is 540 hp

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Both ET AND MPH are way way down. Just a high side ignition miss wont bring back that much missing ET. ET is all made up in the eigth mile. Who specd the cam, and what are all the numbers on the head CFM, just not the "big" number?

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In my case a MSD " high speed miss" in top half of second, and high gear, did knock out a ton of steam. From 10.50's when it would " act up" to. 9.90's when it ran normally.
Ultimately it started doing it every pass, and I finally swapped it out and fixed the problem(6al box).
If the OP is dealing with the same issue, the ET swing would put his car near where it should run.
My issue was extremely similar..... Box is pretty easy to swap to rule out. Especially if it happens to be an older 6al

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It went 124mph at 10.84...

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The Wallace Racing calculator says 124 mph at 3480 lbs is 531 flywheel horsepower. ET is 540 hp

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Both ET AND MPH are way way down. Just a high side ignition miss wont bring back that much missing ET. ET is all made up in the eigth mile. Who specd the cam, and what are all the numbers on the head CFM, just not the "big" number?

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I don't understand Why your asking about the cam??

Drag, states that its laying down in third and sometimes in second.

Until That's , straightened out, you can forget about the cam numbers for now.


EDIT, also I haven't seen a 60 ft. number yet. That would be another good indicator of what may be going on. If its soft too, then yes, something other then fuel delivery will be the problem.

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How they selected the cam, why they selected THAT cam, and how they mated it with the heads, will provide some more information about the total package.I have seen cams kill combinations. I dont think that is the " only" thing wrong here, but I am curious as to a few things. Ive certainly seen MSDs fail, thats for sure.I normally see them just die, or simply misfire. Not really " lay over" First time for everything, thats for sure.

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So you havn`t answered some important questions. Fuel system, fuel pressure and was the system flowed to see how quick it pumps a gallon. Wideband............will tell you instantly if it`s fuel related by peeking at the gauge when it falls off. Me, I`d do a cranking comp. test AFTER making sure the valves are adjusted and go from there.

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It doesn't have a "Chevy" cam. It has a camshaft for a HEMI or it wouldn't fit in the motor. And while the cam may not be ideal, it is not likely what is causing it to be way down on power. A .600ish lift cam with 260 and 268 @.050 on a 110 is not out of the ball park for a street ride. Now the cam could be installed wrong and seriously hurt power, but it is not down on power just because of the cam grind. A STOCK cam in a 484" HEMI should make more power than this one seems to.

You also say it slowed even more on the last outing. Are you sure the trans or converter is not hurt?

Monte

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My first BB wedge stroker pump gas motor had a custom ground cam(by Benschoff(SP?) racing in Wisconsin in it with BB Chevy lobes ground on a 108 LSA, it worked way better than I expected I wouldn't expect those cam lobes to work that well in a street driven 426 hemi, especially when I hear most good BB Chevy cams are ground on 112 and wider LSA

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Please enlighten me on what is a "Chevy" lobe and what is a "Mopar" lobe. That has to be about the craziest thing I ever heard. When selecting a cam, you go to a master lobe catalog and pick the lobes you want, both intake and exhaust and have it ground on the blank you want. A cam lobe does the same thing in any motor. It controls how much and how fast the valve opens and how fast it closes. That's it. Last I checked, those actions are not brand specific.

Monte

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Work with what you have. A fast car seldom gets like that in one season!

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I know....I have had this combo for a while. It should run better than it does, its just seems like its stuck...

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Please enlighten me on what is a "Chevy" lobe and what is a "Mopar" lobe. That has to be about the craziest thing I ever heard. When selecting a cam, you go to a master lobe catalog and pick the lobes you want, both intake and exhaust and have it ground on the blank you want. A cam lobe does the same thing in any motor. It controls how much and how fast the valve opens and how fast it closes. That's it. Last I checked, those actions are not brand specific.

Monte

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Yeah you're right but you're wrong too - read the first several items on this page
http://www.hughesengines.com/TechArticles/1camshaftfrequentlyaskedquestions.php

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Wrong is a matter of semantics I suppose, because when I spec a cam for ANY combo, I factor in lifter diameter. So when you factor in lifter diameter and get the opening and closing rates and numbers where you want them, a lobe is a lobe. Now if you want EXACTLY the same valve action with different diameter lifters, then yes, I suppose you could classify lobes as "brand" lobes because of stock lifter diameters. But in the world of "custom" cams, that would mean nothing.

I generally build motors with .937 lifters........so what "brand" of lobes should I run...........LOL

Monte

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Every post of yours reminds me of Fonzie.

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Wrong is a matter of semantics I suppose, because when I spec a cam for ANY combo, I factor in lifter diameter. So when you factor in lifter diameter and get the opening and closing rates and numbers where you want them, a lobe is a lobe. Now if you want EXACTLY the same valve action with different diameter lifters, then yes, I suppose you could classify lobes as "brand" lobes because of stock lifter diameters. But in the world of "custom" cams, that would mean nothing.

I generally build motors with .937 lifters........so what "brand" of lobes should I run...........LOL

Monte

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Every post of yours reminds me of Fonzie.

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Cam Card....Was not spec'd by me.....And remember I have rockers with higher ratio's

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looking at his cam card it started out well, they used NF lobe design and lift rate in to popular lobe numbers. nf lobes were first made by ultradyne.now ultradyne=bullet they are very fast lift rate,then also sold by hughes but engle cams made all there cams. back to the card then the bullet core was ground by comp cams? thats were it goes south
too much duration for motor size on street(and its killing compression and low end power) with great flowing hemi heads you dont stagger cam lobes(like in wedge to help ext slow side) dont like the 4 degrees advance ground into the cam (its not a gm 350) also dont like the 110 lsa (it needs 106 or 108 lsa) to built lots of cylinder pressure so it wont be a dud with huge heads and valves. if cam was also ground then to comp cams big block gm lobe lift rate/profile it would slow that cam down. and yes hemi cam only fits a 426 hemi design motor the lobes are 180 swapped from all wedge motors. id build a small 600 lift solid roller for it spin it 8k then if wanted and power till rods come out.also check valve guides for wear and vac test all ports to make sure valves are sealing perfect,also check cam for bad lobes, its cam
or that.

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Boogers and dogdays posts should be plenty to enlighten you. Im very familer with the term and its easy to understand.

You can only do so much area under the curve with a certain lift, diameter will regulate that. It was well explained IMO

So yes a Chevy type diameter LOBE design can be ground on a Chrysler LOBE. Its still a Chrysler cam, but its got a Chevy Lobe.

hey, we all cant know everything




EDIT, Also Im not Implying that Dragula has a Hemi cam with a chevy type Lobe design.

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Boogers and dogdays posts should be plenty to enlighten you. Im very familer with the term and its easy to understand.

You can only do so much area under the curve with a certain lift, diameter will regulate that. It was well explained IMO

So yes a Chevy type diameter LOBE design can be ground on a Chrysler LOBE. Its still a Chrysler cam, but its got a Chevy Lobe.

hey, we all cant know everything




EDIT, Also Im not Implying that Dragula has a Hemi cam with a chevy type Lobe design.

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Trust me, I don't need "enlightened" on cam design nor how they work. I have probably had about 50 custom ground this year to my specs for various motors. Call the lobe whatever you want. As long as it opens and closes where I want it is all that matters to me..............but I will bow out of this thread anyway. Guess this stuff is just too far over my head..............LOL!!!

Monte

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Hey, You asked to be enlightened, and you were.

50 or even 1500 custom ground cams have Nothing to do with , what you wanted to be enlightened about.

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....What do you guys pay for having an engine dyno'd?

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Well, the engine got down to the shop...We discussed going to a 528 and a real cam somewhere in the .640 lift range. And maybe a real convertor...

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Depends on what you are going to do with the car

An 8" vertor will definately make better ET. But you may not like it's street manners.

Do the test to see how long it takes to fill a gallon can using the lines from the regulator.
Don