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Bored with 660hp.... #1687861
10/19/14 05:40 PM
10/19/14 05:40 PM
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 12,379
Taxes & Virus's R-US, NY
Dragula Offline OP
I Live Here
Dragula  Offline OP
I Live Here

Joined: May 2004
Posts: 12,379
Taxes & Virus's R-US, NY
Well, to say I am disappointed with my 484 hemi powered street cars performance this year is an understatement. I don't think its totally from the Hemi's lack of hp, but there is at least one other gremlin in the system that is killing the HP as well.

Between the weather and the changing track schedule I was never able to fully sort it out. So now I have it nearly out of the car....

My issue is high gear under full load she goes lean. I have not be able to figure it out. So the season is over, and I am on the fence....I was going to go and turn it into a 528, but now I am thinking 572, but I could also sell the whole thing and go a different route entirely....What would you guys do?


'70 Cuda,...605 EFI Hemi Street Car (6.20 best pass, 1.33 60ft)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WYw6RA-k5Bk (6.25 at 108.75mph from inside car)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3zQEb9uxFng (6.25 at 108mph from outside car)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JCvfzsC4NgM (9.9)

'66 Barracuda AWB Stretched nose Blown 440 Car in build stage

'71 Duster Drag Car 400 Low Deck 512 best 6.002 at 115.44mph
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Znuo3jMUXTk
Re: Bored with 660hp.... [Re: Dragula] #1687862
10/19/14 05:50 PM
10/19/14 05:50 PM
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 1,825
NW Indiana
F
fbs63 Offline
top fuel
fbs63  Offline
top fuel
F

Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 1,825
NW Indiana
Work with what you have. A fast car seldom gets like that in one season!

Re: Bored with 660hp.... [Re: fbs63] #1687863
10/19/14 06:01 PM
10/19/14 06:01 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,237
North Central, Indiana
Roughbird72 Offline
pro stock
Roughbird72  Offline
pro stock

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,237
North Central, Indiana
Quote:

Work with what you have. A fast car seldom gets like that in one season!






72 Plymouth Roadrunner 11.08@123.25
Re: Bored with 660hp.... [Re: Roughbird72] #1687864
10/19/14 06:31 PM
10/19/14 06:31 PM
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 12,379
Taxes & Virus's R-US, NY
Dragula Offline OP
I Live Here
Dragula  Offline OP
I Live Here

Joined: May 2004
Posts: 12,379
Taxes & Virus's R-US, NY
Quote:

Quote:

Work with what you have. A fast car seldom gets like that in one season!









I know....I have had this combo for a while. It should run better than it does, its just seems like its stuck...


'70 Cuda,...605 EFI Hemi Street Car (6.20 best pass, 1.33 60ft)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WYw6RA-k5Bk (6.25 at 108.75mph from inside car)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3zQEb9uxFng (6.25 at 108mph from outside car)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JCvfzsC4NgM (9.9)

'66 Barracuda AWB Stretched nose Blown 440 Car in build stage

'71 Duster Drag Car 400 Low Deck 512 best 6.002 at 115.44mph
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Znuo3jMUXTk
Re: Bored with 660hp.... [Re: Dragula] #1687865
10/19/14 06:51 PM
10/19/14 06:51 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 32,394
Q
Quicktree Offline
I Win
Quicktree  Offline
I Win
Q

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 32,394
twin turbo's?

Re: Bored with 660hp.... [Re: Quicktree] #1687866
10/19/14 06:59 PM
10/19/14 06:59 PM
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 12,379
Taxes & Virus's R-US, NY
Dragula Offline OP
I Live Here
Dragula  Offline OP
I Live Here

Joined: May 2004
Posts: 12,379
Taxes & Virus's R-US, NY
Quote:

twin turbo's?




If it was a strut front end, I would have more options available....


'70 Cuda,...605 EFI Hemi Street Car (6.20 best pass, 1.33 60ft)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WYw6RA-k5Bk (6.25 at 108.75mph from inside car)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3zQEb9uxFng (6.25 at 108mph from outside car)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JCvfzsC4NgM (9.9)

'66 Barracuda AWB Stretched nose Blown 440 Car in build stage

'71 Duster Drag Car 400 Low Deck 512 best 6.002 at 115.44mph
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Znuo3jMUXTk
Re: Bored with 660hp.... [Re: Dragula] #1687867
10/19/14 07:19 PM
10/19/14 07:19 PM
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 4,254
Canada
WO23Coronet Offline
master
WO23Coronet  Offline
master

Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 4,254
Canada
Is it carb or injected? What's the combo run down?

Re: Bored with 660hp.... [Re: WO23Coronet] #1687868
10/19/14 07:33 PM
10/19/14 07:33 PM
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 6,906
IL, Aurora
A
ademon Offline
master
ademon  Offline
master
A

Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 6,906
IL, Aurora
Won't punching it out even bigger make it go even leaner? I say sort out what you have!

Re: Bored with 660hp.... [Re: WO23Coronet] #1687869
10/19/14 07:35 PM
10/19/14 07:35 PM
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 12,379
Taxes & Virus's R-US, NY
Dragula Offline OP
I Live Here
Dragula  Offline OP
I Live Here

Joined: May 2004
Posts: 12,379
Taxes & Virus's R-US, NY
Quote:

Is it carb or injected? What's the combo run down?




Its carburated currently. It was injected previously and I have the injection unit but sold the ecu....

So currently it is:

484 cubes with a 4.15 crank and 4.31 JE pistons
11.5:1 compression
mild .600 lift mechanical chevy cam
426-1 Indy heads flowing 400cfm
1000cfm carb and port matched intake

Car is 4.10 gears
31" tires
4500 stall
car weighs 3220lbs

I had 4.56's in it last year with a 5000 stall, but hated all the rpm on the street.

It went 10.84 last year with the 4.56s and only 10.93 this year so far. Car is super drivable, so I have that covered...


'70 Cuda,...605 EFI Hemi Street Car (6.20 best pass, 1.33 60ft)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WYw6RA-k5Bk (6.25 at 108.75mph from inside car)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3zQEb9uxFng (6.25 at 108mph from outside car)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JCvfzsC4NgM (9.9)

'66 Barracuda AWB Stretched nose Blown 440 Car in build stage

'71 Duster Drag Car 400 Low Deck 512 best 6.002 at 115.44mph
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Znuo3jMUXTk
Re: Bored with 660hp.... [Re: Dragula] #1687870
10/19/14 07:40 PM
10/19/14 07:40 PM
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 1,845
Tampa
D
DusterDave Offline
top fuel
DusterDave  Offline
top fuel
D

Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 1,845
Tampa
What ET were you hoping to hit with it? Do a compression check.


Gone to the dark side with an LS3 powered '57 Chevy 210
Re: Bored with 660hp.... [Re: DusterDave] #1687871
10/19/14 07:47 PM
10/19/14 07:47 PM
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 20,116
PA.
pittsburghracer Offline
"Little"John
pittsburghracer  Offline
"Little"John

Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 20,116
PA.
How are you coming up with the 660HP figures?


1970 Duster
Edelbrock headed 408
5.984@112.52
422 Indy headed small block
5.982@112.56 mph
9.42@138.27

Livin and lovin life one day at a time




Re: Bored with 660hp.... [Re: DusterDave] #1687872
10/19/14 07:52 PM
10/19/14 07:52 PM
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 10,384
Upstate NY
Bigcube Offline
I Live Here
Bigcube  Offline
I Live Here

Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 10,384
Upstate NY
With the HP and weight you are at now it should be an easy 10.oh ride. Where are the numbers off? Is it spinning? Dieing on top end? Lot's of different things can cause poor ET compared to what it should go at your weight/hp. With that said, it sounds like something ain't working right.


Jim

Re: Bored with 660hp.... [Re: Bigcube] #1687873
10/19/14 08:16 PM
10/19/14 08:16 PM
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 20,116
PA.
pittsburghracer Offline
"Little"John
pittsburghracer  Offline
"Little"John

Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 20,116
PA.
Quote:

With the HP and weight you are at now it should be an easy 10.oh ride. Where are the numbers off? Is it spinning? Dieing on top end? Lot's of different things can cause poor ET compared to what it should go at your weight/hp. With that said, it sounds like something ain't working right.





That's what I'm getting at. My Sons stock stroke 360 runs 10.50's to 10.70's at 3250 pounds and he's no where around 660HP.


1970 Duster
Edelbrock headed 408
5.984@112.52
422 Indy headed small block
5.982@112.56 mph
9.42@138.27

Livin and lovin life one day at a time




Re: Bored with 660hp.... [Re: pittsburghracer] #1687874
10/19/14 09:03 PM
10/19/14 09:03 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 11,701
Portage,michigan
B
B3422W5 Offline
I Live Here
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 11,701
Portage,michigan
Quote:

Quote:

With the HP and weight you are at now it should be an easy 10.oh ride. Where are the numbers off? Is it spinning? Dieing on top end? Lot's of different things can cause poor ET compared to what it should go at your weight/hp. With that said, it sounds like something ain't working right.





That's what I'm getting at. My Sons stock stroke 360 runs 10.50's to 10.70's at 3250 pounds and he's no where around 660HP.




Yep...... 660 horse at that weight should run 9's easily. My old W5 motor probably made 650 and at 3350 pounds ran 9.80's in good sir.
Something is WAY off in that combo.


69 Dart GTS A4 Silver All steel, flat factory hood, 3360race weight
418 BPE factory replacement headed stroker, 565 lift solid cam
Best so far, 10.40 @127 1/4
1.41 best 60 foot
6.60 at 103.90 1/8

Re: Bored with 660hp.... [Re: B3422W5] #1687875
10/19/14 09:13 PM
10/19/14 09:13 PM
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 3,210
robin hood country
deaks Offline
master
deaks  Offline
master

Joined: May 2004
Posts: 3,210
robin hood country
Do you use an A/F gauge ? i found mine invaluable when tuning my car.
Mick


69 Dart GTS 440 mopar .590 cam, Edelbrock heads, 3200#
best et 6.45, 106.78, 10.14, 132.88 mph, 1.47 60ft
best 60ft 1.36
Re: Bored with 660hp.... [Re: deaks] #1687876
10/19/14 09:21 PM
10/19/14 09:21 PM
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 12,379
Taxes & Virus's R-US, NY
Dragula Offline OP
I Live Here
Dragula  Offline OP
I Live Here

Joined: May 2004
Posts: 12,379
Taxes & Virus's R-US, NY
It lays over on the top end after shifting to 3rd, and even sometimes at the top of 2nd....

So at a race weight of 3480lbs, and a best trap speed of 124mph, what do you guys calculate? 660hp seems pretty close to me.

I know last year when it ran 10.84 there was another .10 in it of I sealed the carb to the hood.

I keep wondering about the MSD box though....


'70 Cuda,...605 EFI Hemi Street Car (6.20 best pass, 1.33 60ft)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WYw6RA-k5Bk (6.25 at 108.75mph from inside car)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3zQEb9uxFng (6.25 at 108mph from outside car)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JCvfzsC4NgM (9.9)

'66 Barracuda AWB Stretched nose Blown 440 Car in build stage

'71 Duster Drag Car 400 Low Deck 512 best 6.002 at 115.44mph
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Znuo3jMUXTk
Re: Bored with 660hp.... [Re: Dragula] #1687877
10/19/14 09:28 PM
10/19/14 09:28 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 11,701
Portage,michigan
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B3422W5 Offline
I Live Here
B3422W5  Offline
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 11,701
Portage,michigan
Quote:

It lays over on the top end after shifting to 3rd, and even sometimes at the top of 2nd....

So at a race weight of 3480lbs, and a best trap speed of 124mph, what do you guys calculate? 660hp seems pretty close to me.

I know last year when it ran 10.84 there was another .10 in it of I sealed the carb to the hood.

I keep wondering about the MSD box though....




525...... Maybe 550 horse. Before my w5 motor I had a 416 with flat tappet, mildly ported Eddie heads. Car weighed 3450 at that time as it still had the bench seat in it( and otherwise bone stock in and out 70 Duster) cage and my 300 pounds in it, and it ran 10.70's at right at 124 through the muffs. I figured it for close to 550, maybe a hair less.
I had a 6al do exactly what you are dealing with( lay over top of second and third) that I chased half of a season few years back..... Knocked about 5 or 6 tenths out of the car.
Swapped in a digital 6 at that time and never did it again

Last edited by B3422W5; 10/19/14 09:34 PM.
Re: Bored with 660hp.... [Re: B3422W5] #1687878
10/19/14 09:35 PM
10/19/14 09:35 PM
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 3,210
robin hood country
deaks Offline
master
deaks  Offline
master

Joined: May 2004
Posts: 3,210
robin hood country
My car is a genuine 590-600 hp it's lighter than yours but you should be going at least very low 10's
at least 128-9
Mick


69 Dart GTS 440 mopar .590 cam, Edelbrock heads, 3200#
best et 6.45, 106.78, 10.14, 132.88 mph, 1.47 60ft
best 60ft 1.36
Re: Bored with 660hp.... [Re: B3422W5] #1687879
10/19/14 09:39 PM
10/19/14 09:39 PM

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Anonymous
Unregistered
Anonymous
Unregistered
A



Just had an MSD do the same thing Friday on the dyno--swapped out the distributor for fresh MSD unit and whamo! All good and pulled like it should-- It can be the module in the dist as well--you would never think it--I thought it should work or not work but found out different Engine would just layover above 5000--put exactly same curve we always use black stop and one light silver one blue spring--and she went to work and ran great--always...I mean always something.
I bet that Hemi is running out of fuel--has an elbow or something in the system or just not getting full voltage to the fuel pump--we always see giant swimming pool filler pumps with NO relays etc check and they are just not getting voltage--not pumping "what the box says" A drag car can run good with no symptom other than slow and low MPH--get fuel straight and it can really make a big diff
China regulators are trouble too--Best for the $$ is Aeromotive stuff--class act quality and good support--regulators are very nice units but remember are o ring fittings not pipe thread when planning your plumbing.

Re: Bored with 660hp.... [Re: ] #1687880
10/19/14 09:55 PM
10/19/14 09:55 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 11,701
Portage,michigan
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B3422W5 Offline
I Live Here
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I Live Here
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 11,701
Portage,michigan
Quote:

Just had an MSD do the same thing Friday on the dyno--swapped out the distributor for fresh MSD unit and whamo! All good and pulled like it should-- It can be the module in the dist as well--you would never think it--I thought it should work or not work but found out different Engine would just layover above 5000--put exactly same curve we always use black stop and one light silver one blue spring--and she went to work and ran great--always...I mean always something.
I bet that Hemi is running out of fuel--has an elbow or something in the system or just not getting full voltage to the fuel pump--we always see giant swimming pool filler pumps with NO relays etc check and they are just not getting voltage--not pumping "what the box says" A drag car can run good with no symptom other than slow and low MPH--get fuel straight and it can really make a big diff
China regulators are trouble too--Best for the $$ is Aeromotive stuff--class act quality and good support--regulators are very nice units but remember are o ring fittings not pipe thread when planning your plumbing.





His issue doesn't seem Rpm related( neither was mine) I am sure he wrings it out in first gear before shifting to second, and he didn't have any issues in first at all, only appear in the top of second.
I thought my identical problem was fuel related/ vapor lock, etc,etc.
Mine would run 9.90's on a normal pass, then about every second or third pass, it would run 10.50's, laying over at the top of second and all of third. The problem finally went to every pass it doing that.
Swapped out the MSD box and that cured the problem. Had zero to do with fuel at all. That was why it took me so long to find the problem, I could have swore it was fuel delivery related


69 Dart GTS A4 Silver All steel, flat factory hood, 3360race weight
418 BPE factory replacement headed stroker, 565 lift solid cam
Best so far, 10.40 @127 1/4
1.41 best 60 foot
6.60 at 103.90 1/8

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