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Re: All this block talk...
[Re: Dragula]
#1672727
09/18/14 04:28 PM
09/18/14 04:28 PM
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Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 6,890
North Alabama
Monte_Smith
master
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master
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 6,890
North Alabama
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Quote:
It was a surprisingly simple question that seemed to ignite the debate in the other thread...As many of us on here do, I race on a budget.
If you look at the Gen3 Hemi builds...all those are with the stock block at +700hp. I have seen the new aluminum blocks for sale, but have yet to see any builds with them. And honestly, I would switch to one if they weren't so costly. A stroker kit at $2700 is pretty steep, and at only 392 to 426 cubes, it just doesn't make sense yet...
It would be great if everyone could afford a new $5k block...But the way I look at it, on a good running race engine, eventually something fails...What's really left of it when it does. On the last 5-6 failures I have seen, the block never survives, nor the cam, rods or pistons... And if you sell the race car, its worth pennies on the dollar and everyone low balls you on it.
You can't compare 60s technology to modern technology, so the comparison of a modern HEMI block to a 60 year designed RB block is a moot point. The main webs are weak in B and RB factory blocks and that will NOT change. And while it is true that catastrophic engine failure results in junk parts, the chances of main web failure in the aftermarket block being the root cause is pretty slim.............but if YOU are comfortable building 500+ in high HP motors in stock blocks......."crack on" with it, but don't expect many to think it is a good idea. All the talk of limiting rpms, limiting bobweights, girdles, caps, keeping the detonation down, etc, etc, etc, are all GOOD ideas.....NONE of which address the inherent problem though........weak in the webs. As I stated before, myself and several others here have done the same in the past.......but now, power is MUCH easier to make, we know better and good parts are available, so why risk it. I understand budget, but the old adage of doing it right the first time usually ends up being the cheapest route in the long term.
Lets say you do a good job at keeping an eye on things and do catch a cracked block before it destroys the motor. How many stock blocks, money wise, does it take to bore, hone, align hone, square deck, etc, before you could have bought a good block to start with
Monte
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Re: All this block talk...
[Re: Monte_Smith]
#1672728
09/18/14 05:18 PM
09/18/14 05:18 PM
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Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 290
Cincinnati, Ohio
d7cook
enthusiast
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enthusiast
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 290
Cincinnati, Ohio
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Although Mopar is not Chevy in terms of price and availability it is much better than others. Having dabbled with Buicks I can tell you those blocks make a stock 440 look stout. And if you want aftermarket aluminum Buick block they make KB look cheap and quick in comparison. The grass is always greener but it's really not too bad for Mopars.
On a side note can we expect MP megablocks again?
Last edited by d7cook; 09/18/14 05:19 PM.
1967 Coronet, 1989 Daytona tube chassis.
Former cars, 66 Charger, 67 R/T, 69 Coronet, 67 Dart GT.
-Banned for life from V8Buick.com-
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Re: All this block talk...
[Re: justinp61]
#1672729
09/18/14 06:38 PM
09/18/14 06:38 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 32,394
Quicktree
I Win
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I Win
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 32,394
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Quote:
If you can get me an aluminum small block, 9.6" deck, will take a 4.18 bore water block I'd be in at $3k.
I guess so, you can't even do an R or X block for that if you have to buy the block.
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Re: All this block talk...
[Re: B G Racing]
#1672733
09/19/14 06:29 PM
09/19/14 06:29 PM
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Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 1,058
bigfork mn
dragram440
super stock
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super stock
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 1,058
bigfork mn
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How many stock blocks, money wise, does it take to bore, hone, align hone, square deck, etc, before you could have bought a good block to start with
Do the aftermarket blocks come ready to go?
67' charger 499 RB
10.57 at 127
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Re: All this block talk...
[Re: dragram440]
#1672734
09/19/14 07:00 PM
09/19/14 07:00 PM
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Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 3,415
Toronto
mshred
master
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master
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 3,415
Toronto
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Quote:
How many stock blocks, money wise, does it take to bore, hone, align hone, square deck, etc, before you could have bought a good block to start with
Do the aftermarket blocks come ready to go?
They need to be machined as well, atleast I know most do...and it seems some have their own problems that need correcting also (not BBM in specific, just in general), which is part of the reason I am hesitant to ever want to use one...Lots of coin to buy, then more to machine, and possibly more to fix "problems" that when you are paying the money they command new, you shouldn't have to pay to fix...Thats just my opinion though
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Re: All this block talk...
[Re: pittsburghracer]
#1672736
09/19/14 11:39 PM
09/19/14 11:39 PM
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 3,667
Arizona
Chris'sBarracuda
master
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master
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 3,667
Arizona
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Quote:
What ever happened to the Ritter block program? 
Great Question..  I was thinking the same thing, but didn't post it.. 
Chris.. 
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Re: All this block talk...
[Re: pittsburghracer]
#1672737
09/19/14 11:42 PM
09/19/14 11:42 PM
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 3,395
Pa
Hot 340
master
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master
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 3,395
Pa
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Quote:
What ever happened to the Ritter block program?
It would be doing well if I was machining them.  All it needs is someone running the machines who gives a hoot.
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Re: All this block talk...
[Re: rickraw]
#1672739
09/19/14 11:49 PM
09/19/14 11:49 PM
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 3,667
Arizona
Chris'sBarracuda
master
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master
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 3,667
Arizona
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If anyone who watched Dragweek paid just a little attention they would have seen that the LS Chevy was far and away the engine of choice.. All of the interviews about them were the same.. Just pick one up out of a junk yard and add a turbo.. Bam 900hp +++..  Hard to argue with that..  Chris..
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Re: All this block talk...
[Re: Chris'sBarracuda]
#1672740
09/19/14 11:54 PM
09/19/14 11:54 PM
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Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 2,128
Salt Lake City
camastomcat
top fuel
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top fuel
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 2,128
Salt Lake City
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Quote:
If anyone who watched Dragweek paid just a little attention they would have seen that the LS Chevy was far and away the engine of choice..
All of the interviews about them were the same.. Just pick one up out of a junk yard and add a turbo..
Bam 900hp +++..
Hard to argue with that..
Chris..
Ain't that the truth! Only problem with that is a b!tch to stage if you're bracket racing.
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Re: All this block talk...
[Re: mshred]
#1672742
09/20/14 04:03 AM
09/20/14 04:03 AM
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Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 6,890
North Alabama
Monte_Smith
master
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master
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 6,890
North Alabama
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Quote:
Quote:
How many stock blocks, money wise, does it take to bore, hone, align hone, square deck, etc, before you could have bought a good block to start with
Do the aftermarket blocks come ready to go?
They need to be machined as well, atleast I know most do...and it seems some have their own problems that need correcting also (not BBM in specific, just in general), which is part of the reason I am hesitant to ever want to use one...Lots of coin to buy, then more to machine, and possibly more to fix "problems" that when you are paying the money they command new, you shouldn't have to pay to fix...Thats just my opinion though
ANY block needs to checked. I build a lot of motors of all brands and use mostly aftermarket blocks. All these "problems" that people speak of............well I guess I have been lucky, as I haven't needed to do anything other than normal machining procedures on any of them. And also I guess it also has to do with what people consider problems. On a Mega-Block, you have to do some grinding to make a Jesel belt drive clear and also some grinding to clear some aftermarket oil pumps. Not sure I consider that a problem, just something that has to be done. But still, whatever machining is required is cheaper on one block than two or three.
As far as stock blocks, some of you guys must have way better luck than me. I usually have to go through several before I find one I would even be willing to use. I find the core shift to be very bad and the cylinders get way too thin on the major thrust side even before boring. Admittedly though, I am VERY picky about what I will use. It took me 4 blocks to find a 360 block I would use on my daily driver Challenger motor and it doesn't make 450hp.........LOL!!!........If it is not the cylinder bores, it's the lifter bores. Very erratic castings
Monte
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Re: All this block talk...
[Re: Monte_Smith]
#1672744
09/20/14 10:15 AM
09/20/14 10:15 AM
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Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 2,177
ill
dennismopar73
top fuel
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top fuel
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 2,177
ill
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Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
How many stock blocks, money wise, does it take to bore, hone, align hone, square deck, etc, before you could have bought a good block to start with
Do the aftermarket blocks come ready to go?
They need to be machined as well, atleast I know most do...and it seems some have their own problems that need correcting also (not BBM in specific, just in general), which is part of the reason I am hesitant to ever want to use one...Lots of coin to buy, then more to machine, and possibly more to fix "problems" that when you are paying the money they command new, you shouldn't have to pay to fix...Thats just my opinion though
ANY block needs to checked. I build a lot of motors of all brands and use mostly aftermarket blocks. All these "problems" that people speak of............well I guess I have been lucky, as I haven't needed to do anything other than normal machining procedures on any of them. And also I guess it also has to do with what people consider problems. On a Mega-Block, you have to do some grinding to make a Jesel belt drive clear and also some grinding to clear some aftermarket oil pumps. Not sure I consider that a problem, just something that has to be done. But still, whatever machining is required is cheaper on one block than two or three.
As far as stock blocks, some of you guys must have way better luck than me. I usually have to go through several before I find one I would even be willing to use. I find the core shift to be very bad and the cylinders get way too thin on the major thrust side even before boring. Admittedly though, I am VERY picky about what I will use. It took me 4 blocks to find a 360 block I would use on my daily driver Challenger motor and it doesn't make 450hp.........LOL!!!........If it is not the cylinder bores, it's the lifter bores. Very erratic castings
Monte
They make pill for that lol
Monte sorry you have such bad luck
We had a 400/451 block together for well over 10 years of racing
No concrete no girdle otb rpm heads running 9.80. In 3200# car on alcohol, trans break
With just normal refresh with no abnormal wear
We have a 500 cu 440 source kit running low 10. Teens / twentys in a 3700 #
Car with trans break
Its been together for several years
No we do not do all that core shift bla bla fancey stuff
Im running a 437 out of a 383 been together 3 years running 10.30 in 3000#
Car i can step it up run in the 9 but im happy where im at and the combo i have
We have a 474 ohio crank kit in a 4000# car now running 10.50 been together a few
Years now no issues
So it can be done on stock blocks be as reliable as anything out there
Trick i truely believe is in the engine builder and balancer job given
And keeping operator error out
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Re: All this block talk...
[Re: Monte_Smith]
#1672745
09/20/14 10:44 AM
09/20/14 10:44 AM
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Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 3,415
Toronto
mshred
master
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master
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 3,415
Toronto
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Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
How many stock blocks, money wise, does it take to bore, hone, align hone, square deck, etc, before you could have bought a good block to start with
Do the aftermarket blocks come ready to go?
They need to be machined as well, atleast I know most do...and it seems some have their own problems that need correcting also (not BBM in specific, just in general), which is part of the reason I am hesitant to ever want to use one...Lots of coin to buy, then more to machine, and possibly more to fix "problems" that when you are paying the money they command new, you shouldn't have to pay to fix...Thats just my opinion though
ANY block needs to checked. I build a lot of motors of all brands and use mostly aftermarket blocks. All these "problems" that people speak of............well I guess I have been lucky, as I haven't needed to do anything other than normal machining procedures on any of them. And also I guess it also has to do with what people consider problems. On a Mega-Block, you have to do some grinding to make a Jesel belt drive clear and also some grinding to clear some aftermarket oil pumps. Not sure I consider that a problem, just something that has to be done. But still, whatever machining is required is cheaper on one block than two or three.
As far as stock blocks, some of you guys must have way better luck than me. I usually have to go through several before I find one I would even be willing to use. I find the core shift to be very bad and the cylinders get way too thin on the major thrust side even before boring. Admittedly though, I am VERY picky about what I will use. It took me 4 blocks to find a 360 block I would use on my daily driver Challenger motor and it doesn't make 450hp.........LOL!!!........If it is not the cylinder bores, it's the lifter bores. Very erratic castings
Monte
I agree that stock blocks are a gamble Monte (Why I half filled my SB because I was nervous the block would split), and I can't say I have ever used an aftermarket block to have problems with one. To me, grinding something is not a big deal either...but I have had friends with Dart Chevy and Ford blocks, or Ford racing blocks that needed modifications beyond just regular machining to work, for things that seemed that they should have been right when they bought their blocks- bad batch, maybe? But hearing more then one story about it kinda had me scratching my head since aftermarket stuff should be NICE, not need WORK. Then I read about the ritter horror stories on here for the sb stuff...and now there is no more stock of R3 blocks at Chrysler...just makes someone like me who can't afford to do things twice or re-design/work a part that should have been right from the start a little hesitant.
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If my aunt had nuts,she would be my uncle.Last time I checked iron blocks were 3K and the gougers were asking a $800 on top of that.Heck for $200 more or 4K I would buy an Indy or HP aluminium block. 
