Using external balanced Torque Conv with forged crank?
#1663695
08/25/14 11:41 PM
08/25/14 11:41 PM
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Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 1,074
So Cal, USA
Fab64
OP
super stock
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OP
super stock
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 1,074
So Cal, USA
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Hi all, I've been researching this and think I know the answer, but just want to get confirmation from the experts. I'm currently working on reviving a long-dormant project '66 Coronet. When I pulled the motor, I noticed it had an externally-balanced torque convertor, meant to be used with a cast crankshaft (notice the two weights on the convertor):  The 383 I have is not the original motor; I'm told it's from a '66 Chrysler 300. According to the PO, the Coronet had a seized 400 in it when he bought it (400's had cast cranks, which explains the torque convertor). The PO found the Chrysler 383 in a salvage yard, and dropped it in place just prior to selling the car to me (that is, he never ran this motor in this car). I know that 383's had forged crankshafts until 1971. This block has a casting date of 3/22/65, and it appears to have a forged crankshaft:  Here's are some pics of the damper that's on it:   From what I've read, this torque convertor cannot be used in its present configuration with this engine, correct? However, I should be able to carefully remove the two weights, and make it suitable for use with this engine. Am I understanding this correctly? Has anyone here had success doing this? As always, all suggestions are appreciated - thanks. Roger
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Re: Using external balanced Torque Conv with forged crank?
[Re: Fab64]
#1663696
08/25/14 11:57 PM
08/25/14 11:57 PM
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Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 4,848
Memphis
HemiRick
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master
Joined: Mar 2003
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Memphis
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You are correct you need to remove the weights or get a converter w/o them.
Take care,
Rick
68 Coronet R/T 440 & 68 Charger 528 Hemi,and 5 Challengers! 6 cyl, 318, 360, 383, 451
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Re: Using external balanced Torque Conv with forged crank?
[Re: buildanother]
#1663698
08/26/14 02:29 AM
08/26/14 02:29 AM
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Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 1,074
So Cal, USA
Fab64
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super stock
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OP
super stock
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So Cal, USA
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Quote:
Wow, you gonna scrape that greasy dirty buildup out of that pulley?
Yeah, I plan to clean it up a bit before putting it back in. Heck, that junk would probably throw the balance off by itself - LOL!!
Thanks, guys. I will proceed with the weight-ectomy.
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Re: Using external balanced Torque Conv with forged crank?
[Re: Fab64]
#1663699
08/26/14 02:46 PM
08/26/14 02:46 PM
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Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 43,157
Bend,OR USA
Cab_Burge
I Win
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I Win
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 43,157
Bend,OR USA
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Quote:
Quote:
Wow, you gonna scrape that greasy dirty buildup out of that pulley?
Yeah, I plan to clean it up a bit before putting it back in. Heck, that junk would probably throw the balance off by itself - LOL!!
Thanks, guys. I will proceed with the weight-ectomy.
if the tranny is the original 1966 you may have a problem using the converter for very long, Mopar changed the size and spline count on the pump shafts on all the 727 in either 1966 or 1967   I had a freind who bought and used a 1967 and later race converter in his 1968 GTX that he had bought from a transmision(SP?) shop owner who had changed parts, the front pump and shafts in the tranny. He had drove it for quite a while before it stripped the splines out of the converter sprague  My point is for you to make sure the converter and tranny have the same size and spline counts in them  
Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)
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Re: Using external balanced Torque Conv with forged crank?
[Re: Fab64]
#1663700
08/26/14 03:21 PM
08/26/14 03:21 PM
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Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 6,095
Valencia, España
NachoRT74
master
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master
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 6,095
Valencia, España
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that seems to be a non HiPo convertor ( due the drain plug )
why not get a new convertor ? MP units are unexpensive... if they are still available of course.
I got couple of years ago, one on its box barelly used in $75 ( 175K ), but 166K will be really nice for an street B body
With a Charger born in Chrysler assembly plant in Valencia, Venezuela
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Re: Using external balanced Torque Conv with forged crank?
[Re: NachoRT74]
#1663701
08/26/14 03:27 PM
08/26/14 03:27 PM
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Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 6,095
Valencia, España
NachoRT74
master
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master
Joined: Aug 2007
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Valencia, España
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forget it, it seems MaMopar discontinued these, and just SB 145K are available at this moment now
however googling P4876878AB ( 727 non lock up 166K unit ) some appear
With a Charger born in Chrysler assembly plant in Valencia, Venezuela
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Re: Using external balanced Torque Conv with forged crank?
[Re: Cab_Burge]
#1663702
08/26/14 03:52 PM
08/26/14 03:52 PM
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Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 1,074
So Cal, USA
Fab64
OP
super stock
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OP
super stock
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Quote:
if the tranny is the original 1966 you may have a problem using the converter for very long, Mopar changed the size and spline count on the pump shafts on all the 727 in either 1966 or 1967 I had a freind who bought and used a 1967 and later race converter in his 1968 GTX that he had bought from a transmision(SP?) shop owner who had changed parts, the front pump and shafts in the tranny. He had drove it for quite a while before it stripped the splines out of the converter sprague My point is for you to make sure the converter and tranny have the same size and spline counts in them
Thanks for the tip, Cab. I will check the sizes before I do anything.
And, Nacho, my current plan is to sell this car, so I'm just trying to get it running at the lowest possible cost right now. Thanks!
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Re: Using external balanced Torque Conv with forged crank?
[Re: Fab64]
#1663703
08/26/14 05:54 PM
08/26/14 05:54 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 25,783
Rio Linda, CA
John_Kunkel
Too Many Posts
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Too Many Posts
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Rio Linda, CA
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Since the 727 never used a weighted converter prior to '70 you can be sure the trans has the later input shaft.
The INTERNET, the MISinformation superhighway
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Re: Using external balanced Torque Conv with forged crank?
[Re: jlatessa]
#1663707
08/27/14 08:21 PM
08/27/14 08:21 PM
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Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 1,074
So Cal, USA
Fab64
OP
super stock
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OP
super stock
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 1,074
So Cal, USA
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Quote:
Since the 727 never used a weighted converter prior to '70 you can be sure the trans has the later input shaft.
I found the numbers on the transmission - the first set (2538334) indicates this is a '66 Coronet transmission, but the date doesn't look correct (2539 = July 10, 1968):
A pic without the torque convertor:
The smaller input shaft has 24 splines; the larger has 27 splines. I can't verify the sizes, but these spline counts match those in the torque convertor. Does this tell me anything? Does anyone happen to know the spline numbers for the early vs. later input shafts? Or does it even matter? As long as these match, am I good to go (after removing the weights)?
Some pics of the back side of the torque convertor:
As always, opinions welcomed.
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Re: Using external balanced Torque Conv with forged crank?
[Re: Fab64]
#1663708
08/27/14 08:48 PM
08/27/14 08:48 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 25,783
Rio Linda, CA
John_Kunkel
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Too Many Posts
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Posts: 25,783
Rio Linda, CA
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A build date later than the model year indicates a unit that was built as a parts room replacement part.
The INTERNET, the MISinformation superhighway
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Re: Using external balanced Torque Conv with forged crank?
[Re: GODSCOUNTRY340]
#1663709
08/27/14 10:00 PM
08/27/14 10:00 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 6,224
JERSEY
RJS
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master
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JERSEY
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Quote:
Quote:
Since the 727 never used a weighted converter prior to '70 you can be sure the trans has the later input shaft.
John, did the '69 440 Six Barrel engine use a weighted convertor or was the six pack harmonic balancer enough?
69 440 6 pack motors had passenger car rods and a regular balancer hence a non weighted convertor.
Ron
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I believe you're correct in having to remove those weights. carefully. I had the pleasure of replacing a converter in a cordoba after the existing weight flew off. There was NO question of an imbalance on that thing w/out weight. You may have the same issue if you leave weights in place. 
