Re: US Car Tools Weld In Frame Connector Question
[Re: NITROUSN]
#163765
12/07/08 02:01 PM
12/07/08 02:01 PM
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Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 15,119
85086
moparpollack
Lil Herman
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Lil Herman
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 15,119
85086
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56 Plaza 63 D100 step side 67 Coronet, 68 Roadrunner, 69 Super Bees, 69 Coronet 500 convertible, 70 Roadrunner Post, 79 D150 360, and a severe case of Mopar a,d,d
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Re: US Car Tools Weld In Frame Connector Question
[Re: dOoC]
#163768
12/07/08 04:44 PM
12/07/08 04:44 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 7,978
Bethel Ct
AdamR
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 7,978
Bethel Ct
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Quote:
Just a quick Q .. how is this connector(which is less than half the size of a std tube) ... supposed to perform like a full tube?
What do you mean Doc ? It welds to the frame rails and floor pans tieing it in to the car the entire length of the frame connector.
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Re: US Car Tools Weld In Frame Connector Question
[Re: CudaDave7071]
#163769
12/07/08 06:36 PM
12/07/08 06:36 PM
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Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 3,285
West Coast, USA
jbc426
master
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master
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 3,285
West Coast, USA
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Here's a trial fitting picture of the ones I just installed on my '70 'Cuda. That's the door sill in the foreground. Mine looked like yours at the back end. I ground some on it and then welded it to the frame. I also had to make a small slot in the rear torque boxes. It came out looking good. I tack welded the connectors in place and then used a stitch welding technique, moving around to other areas after welding an inch and a half to reduce warpage. I got good penetration without much burnthrough doing it this way.
Last edited by jbc426; 12/08/08 02:54 AM.
1970 Plymouth 'Cuda #'s 440-6(block in storage)currently 493" 6 pack, Shaker, 5 speed Passon, 4.10's
1968 Plymouth Barracuda Convertible 408 Magnum EFI with 4 speed automatic overdrive, 3800 stall lock-up converter and 4.30's (closest thing to an automatic 5 speed going)
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Re: US Car Tools Weld In Frame Connector Question
[Re: jbc426]
#163770
12/08/08 02:34 AM
12/08/08 02:34 AM
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Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 3,285
West Coast, USA
jbc426
master
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master
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 3,285
West Coast, USA
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Here's one after I finished welding and undercoating them...I also caulked the welds and all seams with paintable black 50 year flashing and gutter caulking. It really enhanced the finished look of the installation and cleaned up the look of the welds. It sure was "fun" welding overhead as I don't have a rotiserie...
1970 Plymouth 'Cuda #'s 440-6(block in storage)currently 493" 6 pack, Shaker, 5 speed Passon, 4.10's
1968 Plymouth Barracuda Convertible 408 Magnum EFI with 4 speed automatic overdrive, 3800 stall lock-up converter and 4.30's (closest thing to an automatic 5 speed going)
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Re: US Car Tools Weld In Frame Connector Question
[Re: jbc426]
#163771
12/08/08 04:07 AM
12/08/08 04:07 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 3,031
Erda, UT
67Charger
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 3,031
Erda, UT
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I've got a set for my Charger, but I haven't installed them yet. What method/technique/setup do you guys use for overhead MIG welding? I'm running a Millermatic 175 with the little .024 wire...
11.33 @ 118.46 on motor
10.75 @ 125.35 w/ a little spray
Now, high Speed Open Road Racing - Silver State Classic Challenge, Nevada Open Road Challenge, Big Bend Open Road Race
Rocky Mountain Race Week 2020, 2022 2.0, Sick Week 2023
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Re: US Car Tools Weld In Frame Connector Question
[Re: AdamR]
#163772
12/08/08 04:11 AM
12/08/08 04:11 AM
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Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 30,449
Florida STAYcation
dOoC
The village idiot's idiot
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The village idiot's idiot
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 30,449
Florida STAYcation
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Quote:
Quote:
Just a quick Q .. how is this connector(which is less than half the size of a std tube) ... supposed to perform like a full tube?
What do you mean Doc ? It welds to the frame rails and floor pans tieing it in to the car the entire length of the frame connector.
A R ..... so are you suggesting that a thin-wall U-channel that is simply welded TO the floor and TO the frame-rails is equal to a heavy-wall 100% rect-tube that is slipped into the frame rails and the floor cut and opened-up to fit the entire tube into the vehicle are "equals" ?
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Re: US Car Tools Weld In Frame Connector Question
[Re: AdamR]
#163774
12/08/08 09:01 AM
12/08/08 09:01 AM
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Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 1,949
land of 10,000______'s
BDS871Cuda
top fuel
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top fuel
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 1,949
land of 10,000______'s
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It all depends on the use of his cuda. weld in
frame connectors should help just fine if he is
just adding mild power to it, say 400 to 500 hp,
somewhere in that area. Say your adding over 500
plus hp to it, then I would start thinking better
frameing.
Snap your neck, mega G-force launch, is all I want!
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Re: US Car Tools Weld In Frame Connector Question
[Re: jbc426]
#163775
12/08/08 01:56 PM
12/08/08 01:56 PM
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Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 3,285
West Coast, USA
jbc426
master
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master
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 3,285
West Coast, USA
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I snapped this pic this morning. It shows what I think is the same area...
1970 Plymouth 'Cuda #'s 440-6(block in storage)currently 493" 6 pack, Shaker, 5 speed Passon, 4.10's
1968 Plymouth Barracuda Convertible 408 Magnum EFI with 4 speed automatic overdrive, 3800 stall lock-up converter and 4.30's (closest thing to an automatic 5 speed going)
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Re: US Car Tools Weld In Frame Connector Question
[Re: jbc426]
#163776
12/08/08 07:16 PM
12/08/08 07:16 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 761
Raleigh, NC
John426
super gas
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super gas
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 761
Raleigh, NC
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Phew - lots of questions here.
Lets start with timeline stuff.
I (John Pasemann from US Car Tool, manufacturer of the Laser Cut Frame Rail Connectors) got an email from David (purchaser) he sent on Friday evening. I read it at home on Sunday evening. David mentioned his recently received frame rails did not seem to fit. I asked for a picture and Monday AM checked his picture against the CAD drawings of the connectors and sure enough; we had sent him the Challenger set although he had order a Cuda set.
I issued an RMA number for the return, processed the return shipping label from him, emailed it to him (no cost to David) and processed an order of a Cuda set of connectors that left here today.
So I think we are golden on the customer service bit, except that we made a mistake in shipping the wrong connectors to begin with.
Now, about the technicalities of various floor pan differences.
There are 5 different versions of frame connectors at the moment.
1) Dodge E Bodies (Challenger)
2) Plymouth E Bodies (Cuda)
3) Dodge & Plymouth B Bodies 66-70
4) A Bodies 67-69
5) A Bodies 70-75
The wheelbase differences between Dodge & Plymouth on the A & B bodies are accomodated by the amount of overhang on the rear frame rails and the same connector will work for both. This was no accident and a lot of design engineering and trial fitments went into having one part that accomodates both wheel bases.
This was just not possible on the E bodies as the rear frame rails are angled and the variation in wheelbase along with the angled rear frame rails requires crossing the "terrain" of the floor pan in a different location - hence the need of unique connectors for Challengers and Cudas.
And now on to the technical issue of strength.
I think we need to be careful using terms like thin wall and thick wall. The US Car Tool frame connectors are made of 1/8" thick steel (.125 or 125 thousandths) so what thickness is the "thickwall tubing" vs thinwall being referred to?
This was discussed at length in the past, but to boil it down, the strength of the frame connector comes more from the "structure" that is formed when it is welded to the floor than from the thickness of the sidewalls of the material. One of the reasons the US Car tool frame connectors are effective is how they tie the entire floor (a part of the unibody structure and also a shear plane) into the frame connector and form a structure that is (roughly - depending on application) a 2 x 4 Rectangle structure.
One measure of this "strength" is referred to as the modulus of elasticity. I'll bet there is an engineer on here who is willing to do the calculations and compare the section modulus for a 2x2 x .250 (quarter inch) sidewall tube vs a 2x3 x .125 (eigth inch) sidewall tube.
That should answer some questions, cause a few others and in general stir the pot a bit (chuckle).
Hope that helps, as always - MOPARTS ROCKS!
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Re: US Car Tools Weld In Frame Connector Question
[Re: John426]
#163777
12/09/08 05:07 AM
12/09/08 05:07 AM
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Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 2,592
None
71rm23
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 2,592
None
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Quote:
Phew - lots of questions here.
Lets start with timeline stuff.
I (John Pasemann from US Car Tool, manufacturer of the Laser Cut Frame Rail Connectors) got an email from David (purchaser) he sent on Friday evening. I read it at home on Sunday evening. David mentioned his recently received frame rails did not seem to fit. I asked for a picture and Monday AM checked his picture against the CAD drawings of the connectors and sure enough; we had sent him the Challenger set although he had order a Cuda set.
I issued an RMA number for the return, processed the return shipping label from him, emailed it to him (no cost to David) and processed an order of a Cuda set of connectors that left here today.
So I think we are golden on the customer service bit, except that we made a mistake in shipping the wrong connectors to begin with.
Now, about the technicalities of various floor pan differences.
There are 5 different versions of frame connectors at the moment.
1) Dodge E Bodies (Challenger)
2) Plymouth E Bodies (Cuda)
3) Dodge & Plymouth B Bodies 66-70
4) A Bodies 67-69
5) A Bodies 70-75
The wheelbase differences between Dodge & Plymouth on the A & B bodies are accomodated by the amount of overhang on the rear frame rails and the same connector will work for both. This was no accident and a lot of design engineering and trial fitments went into having one part that accomodates both wheel bases.
This was just not possible on the E bodies as the rear frame rails are angled and the variation in wheelbase along with the angled rear frame rails requires crossing the "terrain" of the floor pan in a different location - hence the need of unique connectors for Challengers and Cudas.
And now on to the technical issue of strength.
I think we need to be careful using terms like thin wall and thick wall. The US Car Tool frame connectors are made of 1/8" thick steel (.125 or 125 thousandths) so what thickness is the "thickwall tubing" vs thinwall being referred to?
This was discussed at length in the past, but to boil it down, the strength of the frame connector comes more from the "structure" that is formed when it is welded to the floor than from the thickness of the sidewalls of the material. One of the reasons the US Car tool frame connectors are effective is how they tie the entire floor (a part of the unibody structure and also a shear plane) into the frame connector and form a structure that is (roughly - depending on application) a 2 x 4 Rectangle structure.
One measure of this "strength" is referred to as the modulus of elasticity. I'll bet there is an engineer on here who is willing to do the calculations and compare the section modulus for a 2x2 x .250 (quarter inch) sidewall tube vs a 2x3 x .125 (eigth inch) sidewall tube.
That should answer some questions, cause a few others and in general stir the pot a bit (chuckle).
Hope that helps, as always - MOPARTS ROCKS!
I'd have to say thanks, John for admitting US Car Tool made a mistake and has made the effort to rectify the situation. I have had experience with another company that flat sent me the wrong part and they said, "No we didn't". I mean, I think any Mopar fan can tell the difference from a A-body part to a B-body part, that was the case with me. 
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