Posted By: CudaDave7071
US Car Tools Weld In Frame Connector Question - 12/07/08 04:53 PM
I recently purchased US Car Tools weld in frame connectors for a Cuda. Received them last week and test fitted them - there seems to be a problem in that they are too long and do not follow the pattern of the rear floor. The connectors I received measure 43" so I'm wondering if these are for a Challenger.
The picture illustrates the problem. Has anyone else had this problem?
Posted By: itali83
Re: US Car Tools Weld In Frame Connector Question - 12/07/08 05:25 PM
u must have gotten the wrong oes by accident. The ones I got for my roadrunner fit really well. I had to do a little trimming here and there but still, there are a lot of ups and downs to follow so I was really happy with them. Call them up, they were very nice on the phone to me and helpful.
Posted By: AdamR
Re: US Car Tools Weld In Frame Connector Question - 12/07/08 05:42 PM
I bet they sell the same connector for cudas and challengers. You'll probably have to trim them. I believe they only sell one a body frame connector also and there 108 and 11" wheel bases for them.
Posted By: NITROUSN
Re: US Car Tools Weld In Frame Connector Question - 12/07/08 05:45 PM
What did us car tools say? Thats where I would start.
Posted By: CudaDave7071
Re: US Car Tools Weld In Frame Connector Question - 12/07/08 06:11 PM
I sent them an email on Friday but they have not responded yet. If I don't hear from them on Monday, I'm going to call.
I'm not trying to saying anything bad about US Car Tool, I just wanted to show picture to make sure I'm correct in that I have the wrong parts.
Posted By: dOc !
Re: US Car Tools Weld In Frame Connector Question - 12/07/08 08:26 PM
Just a quick Q .. how is this connector(which is less than half the size of a std tube) ... supposed to perform like a full tube?
Posted By: jbc426
Re: US Car Tools Weld In Frame Connector Question - 12/07/08 10:36 PM
Here's a trial fitting picture of the ones I just installed on my '70 'Cuda. That's the door sill in the foreground. Mine looked like yours at the back end. I ground some on it and then welded it to the frame. I also had to make a small slot in the rear torque boxes. It came out looking good. I tack welded the connectors in place and then used a stitch welding technique, moving around to other areas after welding an inch and a half to reduce warpage. I got good penetration without much burnthrough doing it this way.
.jpg "4863888-1970\'Cuda-subframes006(Large).jpg")
Posted By: jbc426
Re: US Car Tools Weld In Frame Connector Question - 12/08/08 06:34 AM
Here's one after I finished welding and undercoating them...I also caulked the welds and all seams with paintable black 50 year flashing and gutter caulking. It really enhanced the finished look of the installation and cleaned up the look of the welds. It sure was "fun" welding overhead as I don't have a rotiserie...
.jpg "4864969-UndercarrigeReassembly057(Large).jpg")
Posted By: 67Charger
Re: US Car Tools Weld In Frame Connector Question - 12/08/08 08:07 AM
I've got a set for my Charger, but I haven't installed them yet. What method/technique/setup do you guys use for overhead MIG welding? I'm running a Millermatic 175 with the little .024 wire...
Posted By: AdamR
Re: US Car Tools Weld In Frame Connector Question - 12/08/08 11:46 AM
Maybe not as strong as some nice 2X3 but I bet there just as strong if not stronger then a pair of 2x2 connectors the are just welded to the rails and dont touch the floor.
Posted By: BDS871Cuda
Re: US Car Tools Weld In Frame Connector Question - 12/08/08 01:01 PM
It all depends on the use of his cuda. weld in
frame connectors should help just fine if he is
just adding mild power to it, say 400 to 500 hp,
somewhere in that area. Say your adding over 500
plus hp to it, then I would start thinking better
frameing.
Posted By: jbc426
Re: US Car Tools Weld In Frame Connector Question - 12/08/08 05:56 PM
I snapped this pic this morning. It shows what I think is the same area...
.jpg "4865561-linkage&rearend023(Large).jpg")
Posted By: John426
Re: US Car Tools Weld In Frame Connector Question - 12/08/08 11:16 PM
Phew - lots of questions here.
Lets start with timeline stuff.
I (John Pasemann from US Car Tool, manufacturer of the Laser Cut Frame Rail Connectors) got an email from David (purchaser) he sent on Friday evening. I read it at home on Sunday evening. David mentioned his recently received frame rails did not seem to fit. I asked for a picture and Monday AM checked his picture against the CAD drawings of the connectors and sure enough; we had sent him the Challenger set although he had order a Cuda set.
I issued an RMA number for the return, processed the return shipping label from him, emailed it to him (no cost to David) and processed an order of a Cuda set of connectors that left here today.
So I think we are golden on the customer service bit, except that we made a mistake in shipping the wrong connectors to begin with.
Now, about the technicalities of various floor pan differences.
There are 5 different versions of frame connectors at the moment.
1) Dodge E Bodies (Challenger)
2) Plymouth E Bodies (Cuda)
3) Dodge & Plymouth B Bodies 66-70
4) A Bodies 67-69
5) A Bodies 70-75
The wheelbase differences between Dodge & Plymouth on the A & B bodies are accomodated by the amount of overhang on the rear frame rails and the same connector will work for both. This was no accident and a lot of design engineering and trial fitments went into having one part that accomodates both wheel bases.
This was just not possible on the E bodies as the rear frame rails are angled and the variation in wheelbase along with the angled rear frame rails requires crossing the "terrain" of the floor pan in a different location - hence the need of unique connectors for Challengers and Cudas.
And now on to the technical issue of strength.
I think we need to be careful using terms like thin wall and thick wall. The US Car Tool frame connectors are made of 1/8" thick steel (.125 or 125 thousandths) so what thickness is the "thickwall tubing" vs thinwall being referred to?
This was discussed at length in the past, but to boil it down, the strength of the frame connector comes more from the "structure" that is formed when it is welded to the floor than from the thickness of the sidewalls of the material. One of the reasons the US Car tool frame connectors are effective is how they tie the entire floor (a part of the unibody structure and also a shear plane) into the frame connector and form a structure that is (roughly - depending on application) a 2 x 4 Rectangle structure.
One measure of this "strength" is referred to as the modulus of elasticity. I'll bet there is an engineer on here who is willing to do the calculations and compare the section modulus for a 2x2 x .250 (quarter inch) sidewall tube vs a 2x3 x .125 (eigth inch) sidewall tube.
That should answer some questions, cause a few others and in general stir the pot a bit (chuckle).
Hope that helps, as always - MOPARTS ROCKS!
