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Help me out with Sacrificial Anodes #1637324
06/23/14 10:49 AM
06/23/14 10:49 AM
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Athens, Greece
Pyper70 Offline OP
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When I made the move to put Edelbrock Heads on my cast Iron block, I wanted to decrease the risk or electrolysis. I bought a sacrificial anode that doubled up as a radiator cap ($19). I have had the cap on my 4 core OEM radiator for 2 years now...last summer...It wasn't how it is pictured below....the thinner version is the one I just installed on my buddy's Roadrunner. You can see the before and after...is this the normal course for magnesium anodes? I thought they get eaten up, I wasn't expecting it to balloon up in size.

Is something funky going on here or is this normal?


Family owned 1969 Charger R/T DualQuad 440/727/GVO/3.55s
Re: Help me out with Sacrificial Anodes [Re: Pyper70] #1637325
06/23/14 10:50 AM
06/23/14 10:50 AM
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Pyper70 Offline OP
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head on


Family owned 1969 Charger R/T DualQuad 440/727/GVO/3.55s
Re: Help me out with Sacrificial Anodes [Re: Pyper70] #1637326
06/23/14 11:39 AM
06/23/14 11:39 AM
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Andrewh Offline
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hard water does that to electrodes in the hot water heaters I have seen.
it will gather crud on some of it and some of it will break down and go away.

I bet if you cut of the yellow plastic you will see chunks of it missing. and I bet the rad was filled with tap water instead of DI or distilled.

Re: Help me out with Sacrificial Anodes [Re: Andrewh] #1637327
06/23/14 11:43 AM
06/23/14 11:43 AM
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Pyper70 Offline OP
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Actually the opposite...I see the ready mix stuff and run for the hills...I go out of my way to get the pure coolant and mix it myself with distilled water....now...if those bozos are selling tap water in distilled water jugs...thats another story.


Family owned 1969 Charger R/T DualQuad 440/727/GVO/3.55s
Re: Help me out with Sacrificial Anodes [Re: Pyper70] #1637328
06/23/14 12:26 PM
06/23/14 12:26 PM
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If you're worried about damaging the heads drain the coolant out once a year and refill with coolant/distilled water. It's only a problem when the PH becomes acidic. Keeping it fresh will keep your aluminum parts from getting damaged. If you really want, you can pull the plug on the side of the block and get it all out. But I just drain the radiator every year before I put the car away for storage and it works just fine. I might be concerned where the eroded zinc is going in my cooling system...

Re: Help me out with Sacrificial Anodes [Re: JoesMopar] #1637329
06/23/14 01:37 PM
06/23/14 01:37 PM
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Quote:

If you're worried about damaging the heads drain the coolant out once a year and refill with coolant/distilled water. It's only a problem when the PH becomes acidic. Keeping it fresh will keep your aluminum parts from getting damaged. If you really want, you can pull the plug on the side of the block and get it all out. But I just drain the radiator every year before I put the car away for storage and it works just fine. I might be concerned where the eroded zinc is going in my cooling system...



I change once a year now , did one of my cars yesterday.

Re: Help me out with Sacrificial Anodes [Re: Challenger 1] #1637330
06/23/14 01:55 PM
06/23/14 01:55 PM
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while that might work, the acidity of the water is not why it works.

the issue is when the fluid becomes conductive.
distilled and coolant mixed are not conductive to electricity.

stray voltage that can be carried by a conductor between 2 disimmilar metals causes one to corrode away.

a sacraficial anode allows that material that gives up electrons easier to be destroyed rather than your pricey aluminum parts.

by changing out the coolant, every year, what you have done is remove the contaimantes that allow it to conduct electricity.

While it is true becoming acidic, increases the conductivity of the "water" that in itself is not the reason for the corrosion.

however you have to ask how acidic can it possibly be.
while it isn't truly a closed system, the "water" becomes acidic due to carbon dioxide in the air blending with it to make it carbonic acid.

there are plenty of additives in coolant that prevent this for quite some time.

but it would be interesting if you measured your ph before and after your change.

Re: Help me out with Sacrificial Anodes [Re: Pyper70] #1637331
06/23/14 02:03 PM
06/23/14 02:03 PM
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I've had a magnesium one in the drain plug of my radiator since 2006 or so and I took it out last year to inspect it and it still looks new. This is also w alum heads.


Take care,
Rick
68 Coronet R/T 440 & 68 Charger 528 Hemi,and 5 Challengers! 6 cyl, 318, 360, 383, 451
Re: Help me out with Sacrificial Anodes [Re: Pyper70] #1637332
06/23/14 08:31 PM
06/23/14 08:31 PM
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Well...I did some research...I need to track down a voltage leak...I checked my radiator fluid and I have .422v in the rad fluid. The threshold is .300v I need to find what is causing the leak and check my grounds. I may have to dump the fluid but I want to check the pH level tomorrow. There are apparently "sponges" you attach to the heater core or radiator which pull the electricity from the lining and reduce the loads in the fluid. I called the reseller of the Rad Cap and he said his does the same thing every two years...his other car...looks like the day he installed it 5 years ago...

So now we are on a hunt for a leakage...I am suspecting it is my alternator though. I have a Delco Remy Si10 which is supposed to put out 14.6v when you "turn it on" and I have 15.7v...that over voltage must be bleeding back into the coolant and its holding it.

Don't blast me on the Remy...I had two of them sitting on the shelf and they put out 100amps and were half the price of the Mopar unit 14 yrs ago...internally regulated and "always on" when you revved past 1500rpm.


Family owned 1969 Charger R/T DualQuad 440/727/GVO/3.55s
Re: Help me out with Sacrificial Anodes [Re: Andrewh] #1637333
06/24/14 12:42 AM
06/24/14 12:42 AM
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Quote:

while that might work, the acidity of the water is not why it works.

the issue is when the fluid becomes conductive.
distilled and coolant mixed are not conductive to electricity.

stray voltage that can be carried by a conductor between 2 disimmilar metals causes one to corrode away.

a sacraficial anode allows that material that gives up electrons easier to be destroyed rather than your pricey aluminum parts.

by changing out the coolant, every year, what you have done is remove the contaimantes that allow it to conduct electricity.

While it is true becoming acidic, increases the conductivity of the "water" that in itself is not the reason for the corrosion.

however you have to ask how acidic can it possibly be.
while it isn't truly a closed system, the "water" becomes acidic due to carbon dioxide in the air blending with it to make it carbonic acid.

there are plenty of additives in coolant that prevent this for quite some time.

but it would be interesting if you measured your ph before and after your change.




But wouldn't you need the anode in both heads for it to do it's job? How will he get them into each head? I don't think it will save the heads being attached to the radiator.

Re: Help me out with Sacrificial Anodes [Re: JoesMopar] #1637334
06/24/14 10:48 AM
06/24/14 10:48 AM
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Pyper70 Offline OP
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I checked the pH level of my system today. I found it to be 7.2

While I checked my buddies 72 RoadRunner...his was 8.4

What number am I supposed to be aiming for?


Family owned 1969 Charger R/T DualQuad 440/727/GVO/3.55s
Re: Help me out with Sacrificial Anodes [Re: Pyper70] #1637335
06/24/14 10:29 PM
06/24/14 10:29 PM
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7 is neutral.
base is greater than 7 and is generally known for less corrosion.
so technically 7 is no charge/extra stuff in the water and would be good too.

something acidic would be like 3 or so. baking soda would be say 8 to 10.


as for the in each head comment, it has to do with being in an electrically conductive solution. so they would complete the circuit with "water".

Re: Help me out with Sacrificial Anodes [Re: Andrewh] #1637336
06/24/14 11:20 PM
06/24/14 11:20 PM
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Pyper70 Offline OP
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Water at 7 is neutral....but as I understand it...when Antifreeze hits 7...it's corrosive. I found this on another website

"Why is the Antifreeze pH Level Important?
Antifreeze is made with a number of corrosive chemicals, because these chemicals have a low enough freezing point to keep from freezing in the cold winter temperatures. However, these chemicals can themselves eat away at the metallic portions of the car. Over time, the antifreeze becomes more corrosive, and its pH level decreases, as the ingredients in it meant to inhibit the corrosive properties of the chemicals break down. As your antifreeze becomes more corrosive, it can begin to eat away at the metallic portions of your engine, causing damage that you will later need to repair. The pH level of your antifreeze should ideally be between 9.5 and 10.5 and definitely be above 8.3."

http://autorepair.answers.com/cooling-and-heating/learning-about-antifreeze-ph-levels


Family owned 1969 Charger R/T DualQuad 440/727/GVO/3.55s
Re: Help me out with Sacrificial Anodes [Re: Pyper70] #1637337
06/24/14 11:22 PM
06/24/14 11:22 PM
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and another site states

"Extensive testing has shown that a coolant pH below 8.3 pH is not acceptable for use in engines due to its corrosive nature. The correct pH value should be maintained between 9.5 - 10.0 pH. Below 9.0 pH it is advisable to flush the cooling system and refill with a new coolant solution."

http://www.eutechinst.com/techtips/tech-tips10.htm


Family owned 1969 Charger R/T DualQuad 440/727/GVO/3.55s
Re: Help me out with Sacrificial Anodes [Re: Andrewh] #1637338
06/25/14 12:42 AM
06/25/14 12:42 AM
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Quote:


as for the in each head comment, it has to do with being in an electrically conductive solution. so they would complete the circuit with "water".




I did a search on this and I thought I remember reading somewhere that it had to be at the source?

Re: Help me out with Sacrificial Anodes [Re: Pyper70] #1637339
06/25/14 02:27 AM
06/25/14 02:27 AM
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Quote:

Well...I did some research...I need to track down a voltage leak...I checked my radiator fluid and I have .422v in the rad fluid. The threshold is .300v I need to find what is causing the leak and check my grounds. I may have to dump the fluid but I want to check the pH level tomorrow. There are apparently "sponges" you attach to the heater core or radiator which pull the electricity from the lining and reduce the loads in the fluid. I called the reseller of the Rad Cap and he said his does the same thing every two years...his other car...looks like the day he installed it 5 years ago...

So now we are on a hunt for a leakage...I am suspecting it is my alternator though. I have a Delco Remy Si10 which is supposed to put out 14.6v when you "turn it on" and I have 15.7v...that over voltage must be bleeding back into the coolant and its holding it.

Don't blast me on the Remy...I had two of them sitting on the shelf and they put out 100amps and were half the price of the Mopar unit 14 yrs ago...internally regulated and "always on" when you revved past 1500rpm.




.422v is over the suggested limit. For something a little over, most likely a coolant change.

Gounding the radiator and heater core directly helps. Also rechecking motor to body grounds.

Re: Help me out with Sacrificial Anodes [Re: JoesMopar] #1637340
06/26/14 12:58 AM
06/26/14 12:58 AM
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Quote:

Quote:


as for the in each head comment, it has to do with being in an electrically conductive solution. so they would complete the circuit with "water".




I did a search on this and I thought I remember reading somewhere that it had to be at the source?




http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Galvanic_corrosion

Re: Help me out with Sacrificial Anodes [Re: autoxcuda] #1637341
06/26/14 09:33 AM
06/26/14 09:33 AM
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Quote:


Grounding the radiator and heater core directly helps. Also rechecking motor to body grounds.




Radiator is grounded to frame, battery is on the same point. Battery to engine block, starter to subframe, engine block to subframe. The subframe contacts are cables, soldered into large bare terminals and then heat sunk and the exposed bolt attaching it is covered in hot glue to resist oxidation. I was pretty religious about grounds. The only thing I have not done is the heater core, which makes sense now. I can probably add a second heavier cabled ground on my radiator and a smaller flat steelbraid and solder it on to my heater core nipple. I am assuming this voltage spike occurred when I installed my aluminum heads. It's going to get worse now because when I flush my radiator....and my block...I am going to install my Aluminum Mancini Water Pump and housing.


Family owned 1969 Charger R/T DualQuad 440/727/GVO/3.55s






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