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Fresh 440 shakes/ vibrates BAD
#1619665
05/13/14 02:01 AM
05/13/14 02:01 AM
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Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 484
PORT ALBERNI B.C. CANADA
71DemonRON
OP
mopar
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OP
mopar
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 484
PORT ALBERNI B.C. CANADA
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A friend of mine has a 440, rebuilt, stock stroke , forged crank, stock rods,6 pak pistons, closed chambered iron heads 509 MP cam, professional products vibration damper, balanced and blue printed, engine builder supplied a B and m sfi flex plate with the notch which they also modified when the balance job was done. Has an new TCS convertor with no weights. It shakes the steering wheel, console etc., even at idle, and increases with rpm. I Swapped in the B and M sfi flex plate with no notches, thought this would cure the problem, but it made it worse. Any input would help. THANKS in advance  
1971 Demon drag car
2004 SX 2.0
1971 Duster 340 4 speed , project for my Daughter
1998 Dodge Ram 3500 SLT Laramie quad cab dually 4x4 V10
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Re: Fresh 440 shakes/ vibrates BAD
[Re: 71DemonRON]
#1619667
05/13/14 02:49 AM
05/13/14 02:49 AM
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
MR_P_BODY
Master
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Master
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
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I assume it shakes in neutral... if so its out of whack and will destroy itself... try another balance place with all the parts... I have a special flex plate made for my engine... it has to be on it 
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Re: Fresh 440 shakes/ vibrates BAD
[Re: MR_P_BODY]
#1619668
05/13/14 03:24 AM
05/13/14 03:24 AM
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Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 484
PORT ALBERNI B.C. CANADA
71DemonRON
OP
mopar
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OP
mopar
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 484
PORT ALBERNI B.C. CANADA
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Yes, neutral balance damper , no weights on convertor except a thin flat 8G weight on the back side. Never had a problem like this, and the machine shop says the notched flex has to be used. I thought that flex was for cast crank engines. Thanks for the replies. Yes , shakes in any gear.
1971 Demon drag car
2004 SX 2.0
1971 Duster 340 4 speed , project for my Daughter
1998 Dodge Ram 3500 SLT Laramie quad cab dually 4x4 V10
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Re: Fresh 440 shakes/ vibrates BAD
[Re: 71DemonRON]
#1619670
05/13/14 11:31 AM
05/13/14 11:31 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 245
Tucson, Az.
RATKLR
enthusiast
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enthusiast
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 245
Tucson, Az.
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If the machine shop said you have to use the notched flex plate then you should have a matching cast crank balancer in front. Plus, I assume you have a cast crank to match the notched flex plate, and the machine shop knows this, even if you don't.
You must have 3 matching rotating pieces, all for a steel crank or all for a cast crank. You had 2 steel crank pieces on it, but if the crank is cast, the parts still didn't match.
I don't know who the machine shop is, but just because you gave them a steel crank to use, doesn't mean that's what you have now.
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Re: Fresh 440 shakes/ vibrates BAD
[Re: firefighter3931]
#1619672
05/13/14 11:47 AM
05/13/14 11:47 AM
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
MR_P_BODY
Master
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Master
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
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Quote:
The notched flexplate is for an external balance with no weights (neutral balance tq converter) so if the engine was internally balanced there is the problem.
It should have the solid plate with no weights on the Tq converter.
Ron
Its a CUSTOM flex plate to make the engine equal to
a internally balanced set up.. I have the same thing..
its so you dont have to add a lot of mallory... it
has to be used on that engine and it has to be on
the crank when balancing
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Re: Fresh 440 shakes/ vibrates BAD
[Re: 71DemonRON]
#1619673
05/13/14 11:56 AM
05/13/14 11:56 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 75,003
U.S.S.A.
JohnRR
I Win
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I Win
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 75,003
U.S.S.A.
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Quote:
Yes, neutral balance damper , no weights on convertor except a thin flat 8G weight on the back side. Never had a problem like this, and the machine shop says the notched flex has to be used. I thought that flex was for cast crank engines. Thanks for the replies. Yes , shakes in any gear.
Sounds like they balanced the engine wit hthe flexplate so I'm not surprised that it shook worse when you swapped on the real neutral balance one.
What's odd is why the neutral balance on the front and weighted on the rear ? The engine is NOT neutral now and any parts swap is going to be an issue.
I'd start by looking at the balancer on the front and the pulley that is on it.
Someone else said something about forged vs. Cast material, that doesn't matter if the rotating assembly was balanced as an assembly , which it sounds like it was .
Time to pull that motor.
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Re: Fresh 440 shakes/ vibrates BAD
[Re: BigBlockMopar]
#1619675
05/13/14 12:02 PM
05/13/14 12:02 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 75,003
U.S.S.A.
JohnRR
I Win
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I Win
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 75,003
U.S.S.A.
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Quote:
You're also absolutely certain all the sparkplug cables are on correct?
 
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Re: Fresh 440 shakes/ vibrates BAD
[Re: BigBlockMopar]
#1619678
05/13/14 01:08 PM
05/13/14 01:08 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 24,562
Brookeville, Md
Mr.Yuck
Not enough dumb comments...yet
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Not enough dumb comments...yet
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 24,562
Brookeville, Md
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Quote:
And I'd start by contacting the machineshop first and tell'm what he found and hear their story.
Something wrong for sure.
You're also absolutely certain all the sparkplug cables are on correct?
 That will do it...509 out of timing w/ plug wires crossed or not working will tend to shake. Seen and done it.
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Re: Fresh 440 shakes/ vibrates BAD
[Re: Mopar-Al]
#1619680
05/13/14 10:56 PM
05/13/14 10:56 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 24,562
Brookeville, Md
Mr.Yuck
Not enough dumb comments...yet
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Not enough dumb comments...yet
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 24,562
Brookeville, Md
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Quote:
Sounds like your engine builder may have done it wrong anyways You have all forged parts. If it isn't a wiped cam lobe , carb or ignition the balance isn't right. Did you use ly rods or the big rods? A neutral balancer and stock flex plate for a internal balance is all that's required.
I think he said Six pack rods... I'm not sure why all the extra junk was required. A stock balancer and flex plate would have been fine for that build.
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Re: Fresh 440 shakes/ vibrates BAD
[Re: Mr.Yuck]
#1619681
05/13/14 11:25 PM
05/13/14 11:25 PM
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Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 4,319
Puyallup, WA
StealthWedge67
master
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master
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 4,319
Puyallup, WA
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Did you remove the weight from the professional products damper? They sell the same part number for both forged and cast cranks, you have to remove the wieght when used with a forged crank.... DAMHIK.
LemonWedge - Street heavy / Strip ready - 11.07 @ 120
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Re: Fresh 440 shakes/ vibrates BAD
[Re: 71DemonRON]
#1619682
05/14/14 12:02 AM
05/14/14 12:02 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 75,003
U.S.S.A.
JohnRR
I Win
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I Win
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 75,003
U.S.S.A.
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Quote:
A friend of mine has a 440, rebuilt, stock stroke , forged crank, stock rods,6 pak pistons,
he said stock rods , 6 pk pistons. It is possible to interwnal balance 6pk rods and heavy TRW pistons , not a lot of weight needs to be adde.
I for the life of me do not know why chrysler external balanced those engines .
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Re: Fresh 440 shakes/ vibrates BAD
[Re: JohnRR]
#1619683
05/14/14 12:28 AM
05/14/14 12:28 AM
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Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 8,020
Pangaea
B5 Bee
master
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master
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 8,020
Pangaea
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Quote:
Quote:
A friend of mine has a 440, rebuilt, stock stroke , forged crank, stock rods,6 pak pistons,
he said stock rods , 6 pk pistons. It is possible to interwnal balance 6pk rods and heavy TRW pistons , not a lot of weight needs to be adde.
I for the life of me do not know why chrysler external balanced those engines .
Cast is less dense than forged so there is less weight in the counterweights. It would have only taken a slight increase in diameter to be able to neutral balance the cast motors, wonder why they didn't?
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