Fresh 440 shakes/ vibrates BAD

Posted By: 71DemonRON

Fresh 440 shakes/ vibrates BAD - 05/13/14 06:01 AM

A friend of mine has a 440, rebuilt, stock stroke , forged crank, stock rods,6 pak pistons, closed chambered iron heads 509 MP cam, professional products vibration damper, balanced and blue printed, engine builder supplied a B and m sfi flex plate with the notch which they also modified when the balance job was done. Has an new TCS convertor with no weights. It shakes the steering wheel, console etc., even at idle, and increases with rpm. I Swapped in the B and M sfi flex plate with no notches, thought this would cure the problem, but it made it worse. Any input would help. THANKS in advance

Posted By: JD Dart

Re: Fresh 440 shakes/ vibrates BAD - 05/13/14 06:48 AM

Is the damper neutral balance? And you sure the TQ has no weights on it.

Posted By: MR_P_BODY

Re: Fresh 440 shakes/ vibrates BAD - 05/13/14 06:49 AM

I assume it shakes in neutral... if so its out of whack
and will destroy itself... try another balance place
with all the parts... I have a special flex plate made
for my engine... it has to be on it

Posted By: 71DemonRON

Re: Fresh 440 shakes/ vibrates BAD - 05/13/14 07:24 AM

Yes, neutral balance damper , no weights on convertor except a thin flat 8G weight on the back side. Never had a problem like this, and the machine shop says the notched flex has to be used. I thought that flex was for cast crank engines. Thanks for the replies.

Yes , shakes in any gear.

Posted By: Mr.Yuck

Re: Fresh 440 shakes/ vibrates BAD - 05/13/14 02:33 PM

Why the weight on the flexplate?

Posted By: RATKLR

Re: Fresh 440 shakes/ vibrates BAD - 05/13/14 03:31 PM

If the machine shop said you have to use the notched flex plate then you should have a matching cast crank balancer in front. Plus, I assume you have a cast crank to match the notched flex plate, and the machine shop knows this, even if you don't.
You must have 3 matching rotating pieces, all for a steel crank or all for a cast crank. You had 2 steel crank pieces on it, but if the crank is cast, the parts still didn't match.
I don't know who the machine shop is, but just because you gave them a steel crank to use, doesn't mean that's what you have now.

Posted By: firefighter3931

Re: Fresh 440 shakes/ vibrates BAD - 05/13/14 03:41 PM

The notched flexplate is for an external balance with no weights (neutral balance tq converter) so if the engine was internally balanced there is the problem.

It should have the solid plate with no weights on the Tq converter.

Ron

Posted By: MR_P_BODY

Re: Fresh 440 shakes/ vibrates BAD - 05/13/14 03:47 PM

Quote:

The notched flexplate is for an external balance with no weights (neutral balance tq converter) so if the engine was internally balanced there is the problem.

It should have the solid plate with no weights on the Tq converter.

Ron

Its a CUSTOM flex plate to make the engine equal to
a internally balanced set up.. I have the same thing..
its so you dont have to add a lot of mallory... it
has to be used on that engine and it has to be on
the crank when balancing

Posted By: JohnRR

Re: Fresh 440 shakes/ vibrates BAD - 05/13/14 03:56 PM

Quote:

Yes, neutral balance damper , no weights on convertor except a thin flat 8G weight on the back side. Never had a problem like this, and the machine shop says the notched flex has to be used. I thought that flex was for cast crank engines. Thanks for the replies. Yes , shakes in any gear.

Sounds like they balanced the engine wit hthe flexplate so I'm not surprised that it shook worse when you swapped on the real neutral balance one.

What's odd is why the neutral balance on the front and weighted on the rear ? The engine is NOT neutral now and any parts swap is going to be an issue.

I'd start by looking at the balancer on the front and the pulley that is on it.

Someone else said something about forged vs. Cast material, that doesn't matter if the rotating assembly was balanced as an assembly , which it sounds like it was .

Time to pull that motor.

Posted By: BigBlockMopar

Re: Fresh 440 shakes/ vibrates BAD - 05/13/14 04:01 PM

And I'd start by contacting the machineshop first and tell'm what he found and hear their story.
Something wrong for sure.

You're also absolutely certain all the sparkplug cables are on correct?

Posted By: JohnRR

Re: Fresh 440 shakes/ vibrates BAD - 05/13/14 04:02 PM

Quote:

You're also absolutely certain all the sparkplug cables are on correct?

Posted By: BigBlockMopar

Re: Fresh 440 shakes/ vibrates BAD - 05/13/14 04:08 PM

But then again, the vibration would usually get less when the rpms rise in such cases.
Do not ask me how I know...!

Posted By: RATKLR

Re: Fresh 440 shakes/ vibrates BAD - 05/13/14 04:42 PM

No disrespect intended.
I was just thinking about ignition issues too. We aren't there and have no history of run time and such. I can't remember how many times I've had to change plugs or wires after a cam break in from the heat.
Or maybe run a compression test on all cylinders to see if a valve may be to tight, or a cam lobe(s) didn't survive break in.

Posted By: Mr.Yuck

Re: Fresh 440 shakes/ vibrates BAD - 05/13/14 05:08 PM

Quote:

And I'd start by contacting the machineshop first and tell'm what he found and hear their story.
Something wrong for sure.

You're also absolutely certain all the sparkplug cables are on correct?

That will do it...509 out of timing w/ plug wires crossed or not working will tend to shake. Seen and done it.

Posted By: Mopar-Al

Re: Fresh 440 shakes/ vibrates BAD - 05/13/14 08:14 PM

Sounds like your engine builder may have done it wrong anyways You have all forged parts. If it isn't a wiped cam lobe , carb or ignition the balance isn't right. Did you use ly rods or the big rods? A neutral balancer and stock flex plate for a internal balance is all that's required.

Posted By: Mr.Yuck

Re: Fresh 440 shakes/ vibrates BAD - 05/14/14 02:56 AM

Quote:

Sounds like your engine builder may have done it wrong anyways You have all forged parts. If it isn't a wiped cam lobe , carb or ignition the balance isn't right. Did you use ly rods or the big rods? A neutral balancer and stock flex plate for a internal balance is all that's required.

I think he said Six pack rods... I'm not sure why all the extra junk was required. A stock balancer and flex plate would have been fine for that build.

Posted By: StealthWedge67

Re: Fresh 440 shakes/ vibrates BAD - 05/14/14 03:25 AM

Did you remove the weight from the professional products damper? They sell the same part number for both forged and cast cranks, you have to remove the wieght when used with a forged crank.... DAMHIK.

Posted By: JohnRR

Re: Fresh 440 shakes/ vibrates BAD - 05/14/14 04:02 AM

Quote:

A friend of mine has a 440, rebuilt, stock stroke , forged crank, stock rods,6 pak pistons,

he said stock rods , 6 pk pistons. It is possible to interwnal balance 6pk rods and heavy TRW pistons , not a lot of weight needs to be adde.

I for the life of me do not know why chrysler external balanced those engines .

Posted By: B5 Bee

Re: Fresh 440 shakes/ vibrates BAD - 05/14/14 04:28 AM

Quote:

Quote:

A friend of mine has a 440, rebuilt, stock stroke , forged crank, stock rods,6 pak pistons,

he said stock rods , 6 pk pistons. It is possible to interwnal balance 6pk rods and heavy TRW pistons , not a lot of weight needs to be adde.

I for the life of me do not know why chrysler external balanced those engines .

Cast is less dense than forged so there is less weight in the counterweights. It would have only taken a slight increase in diameter to be able to neutral balance the cast motors, wonder why they didn't?

Posted By: big_wedge

Re: Fresh 440 shakes/ vibrates BAD - 05/14/14 10:39 AM

your first post says forgded crank, stock rods and six pack pistons. not much needs to be done to balance that set up.. so whats with the notched flex plate again?

Posted By: 572charger

Re: Fresh 440 shakes/ vibrates BAD - 05/15/14 11:46 AM

like steath wedge 67 said ck the damper see if the weight on the inside REMOVE it for a internaly balanced assbly i seen it done 5 times now

Posted By: 71DemonRON

Re: Fresh 440 shakes/ vibrates BAD - 05/31/14 08:27 AM

THANKS for all the replies, got the converter back, something was wrong with it, fixed no charge. Just got it back together today, put a few hundred miles on it too, feels strong, and no bad vibes. Glad it worked out for my friend, she is very lucky.