Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Offset control arm bushings #1591660
03/11/14 09:11 PM
03/11/14 09:11 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,412
E Central IN
N
nd65 Offline OP
pro stock
nd65  Offline OP
pro stock
N

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,412
E Central IN
Is there really any improvement in handling by switching to offset upper control arm bushings?

My front suspension is about 10 years old with 1" torsion bars in my '65 Coronet.

What kind of change could I expect after a proper alignment?

Re: Offset control arm bushings [Re: nd65] #1591661
03/11/14 09:35 PM
03/11/14 09:35 PM
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 553
DE
Ply72rr Offline
mopar
Ply72rr  Offline
mopar

Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 553
DE
1 They can be used to attain proper camber on worn cars that will not come into spec with the adjustment cams. 2 If installed in opposite directions can be used to gain more positive caster. If by "proper alignment" you mean factory specs then the offset bushings wouldn't be needed unless your car suffers from 1 above.

Re: Offset control arm bushings [Re: nd65] #1591662
03/11/14 10:37 PM
03/11/14 10:37 PM
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 723
Houston Tx
Uhcoog1 Offline
super stock
Uhcoog1  Offline
super stock

Joined: May 2005
Posts: 723
Houston Tx
Quote:

Is there really any improvement in handling by switching to offset upper control arm bushings?

My front suspension is about 10 years old with 1" torsion bars in my '65 Coronet.

What kind of change could I expect after a proper alignment?




I run offset bushings to net me a fairly aggressive alignment because I need it for what I'm doing with the car. Depending on what you're doing with the car will determine if you want a more aggressive alignment, and you'll have to decide if the trade off is worth it for you.

The advantage of more aggressive caster is increased steering effort and increased return to center with the wheel (car wants to go straight). There aren't many disadvantages to this.

The advantage of a more aggressive camber is better tire contact patch at max cornering. There are disadvantages to this for all other driving.


-'02 Dodge Viper Ex-World Challenge racecar
-'73 Duster, 6.1 based 392 hilborn hemi, tko600, full floater rear 9", Hellwig custom bars, viper brakes, built for road course
Re: Offset control arm bushings [Re: Uhcoog1] #1591663
03/12/14 10:23 AM
03/12/14 10:23 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,412
E Central IN
N
nd65 Offline OP
pro stock
nd65  Offline OP
pro stock
N

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,412
E Central IN
My car drives fine. Typical '60's Mopar, kind of numb. I would like to improve cornering, feel if possible.

Can someone explain in simple terms the caster/camber deal? How do these bushings help/hinder?

Re: Offset control arm bushings [Re: nd65] #1591664
03/12/14 11:18 AM
03/12/14 11:18 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 3,575
The Netherlands
BigBlockMopar Offline
master
BigBlockMopar  Offline
master

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 3,575
The Netherlands
You might want to start with basic replacements of wear-items first;
New steeringcoupler, replace/rebuild steeringbox, ball-joints/centerlink, lower and upper bushings, and also important, a 'better' idler-arm bushing (polyurethane/nylon). Readjust/replace wheelbearings check/replace tires for uneven wear and only then, do an alignment.
Make sure to do a 'modern' alignment, not one done to '70s factory specs.

Re: Offset control arm bushings [Re: nd65] #1591665
03/12/14 11:18 AM
03/12/14 11:18 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 6,840
The Swamp
S
Sixpak Offline
master
Sixpak  Offline
master
S

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 6,840
The Swamp
Numb feeling is typical for Mopar power steering. There are ways to reduce the numb feeling, like decreasing the power steering pump output slightly through small shims in the regulator valve in the pump. The increased caster deal helps when running todays radial tires. Our old Mopars weren't designed with radials in mind, and as such, the stock range of adjustment in the upper control arms with stock bushings isn't enough to get the caster positive enough for radials to work at their best. Simply put, radials like more positive caster than we can typically dial into a stock vintage mopar front end. Installing the offset bushings helps to move the upper ball joint further towards the rear of the car than is capable with stock bushings, thereby increasing the positive caster.

Re: Offset control arm bushings [Re: nd65] #1591666
03/13/14 12:22 AM
03/13/14 12:22 AM
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 7,664
IN
A
ahy Offline
master
ahy  Offline
master
A

Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 7,664
IN
Quote:

My car drives fine. Typical '60's Mopar, kind of numb. I would like to improve cornering, feel if possible.

Can someone explain in simple terms the caster/camber deal? How do these bushings help/hinder?




Negative camber improves "bite" of the tires in turns. Positive caster improves stability, steering effort and "feel". I run and like -.75 deg camber and +5 degrees caster in a "street handling" application. ('70E). The car handles and feels great. No abnormal tire wear in my application. You need the offset bushings or aftermarket UCA's to get to these specs. I think it is very much worth it. The offset bushings need to be installed opposite normal recommendations to get the best trade off between negative camber and positive caster. AUTOXCUDA has posted a diagram many times. Suggest you search for it.

For reference, I run factory toe settings. Autocrossers sometimes run a little toe out for quick turn in but its not the best for stability.

Re: Offset control arm bushings [Re: ahy] #1591667
03/13/14 10:17 AM
03/13/14 10:17 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,412
E Central IN
N
nd65 Offline OP
pro stock
nd65  Offline OP
pro stock
N

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,412
E Central IN
Thanks guys,

Re: Offset control arm bushings [Re: nd65] #1591668
03/13/14 03:40 PM
03/13/14 03:40 PM
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 78
NE PA,USA
P
pa340dart Offline
member
pa340dart  Offline
member
P

Joined: May 2011
Posts: 78
NE PA,USA
i don't mean to hijack this thread but i'm restoring a 70 340 4sp dart with manual steering. Any idea how they work with manual steering and if I should just install them first or go with oem style first. car last time driven in early 80's did not have problem cornering back then BUT car was radical with E-60 front , G-60 rear. rear also had hi jackers air shocks 110+ psi with 2" extenders
Only problem was on hard braking (KH 4piston) rear end wanted to spin around Anyway any input appreciated thanks moparts

Re: Offset control arm bushings [Re: pa340dart] #1591669
03/14/14 12:11 AM
03/14/14 12:11 AM
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 7,664
IN
A
ahy Offline
master
ahy  Offline
master
A

Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 7,664
IN
The higher positive caster will increase steering effort. That's nice on a PS application and may be a bit much with manual. Suggest you go with the offset bushings and set caster around 1-2 degrees positive. See how you like it. Adjust from there. Go ahead and increase negative camber.







Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.1