MSD timing on OEM spec'd 440
#1580686
02/18/14 10:52 AM
02/18/14 10:52 AM
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Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 8,828
Houston, Tx
hemi68charger
OP
master
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OP
master
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 8,828
Houston, Tx
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Hey gang..
Got the MSD up and running. I noticed that the timing characteristics if it versus OEM points is different. I both ran the MSD with the points dist. as a trigger ( with condensor out ) and last night ran it with my Chrysler electronic distributor. Didn't get to take her out last night due to son's football game. But, I did drive it Sunday with the points as a trigger. The idle seems rougher than with the OEM points distributor, but man oh man, the performance enhancement when driving and getting on it is like night and day. I was curious for those running the MSD on their somewhat stock 440's, what are you doing for timing?
1. Are you setting the timing to OEM spec ( about 10 degrees BTC at curb idle without vacuum advance ) or
2. Setting it at total degree advance ( say about 32-35 at 3000rpm ) and letting it be?
This will eventually be used on the 426 HEMI when I install it in the next couple of months
Thanks in advance...
TroyHouston Mopar Connection Club'69 Charger Daytona 440 - auto - 4.10 Dana (now with 426 hemi) '69 Charger 500 440 - 4speed - 3.54 Dana '70 Road Runner 383 - 4speed - a/c (now with 440)
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Re: MSD timing on OEM spec'd 440
[Re: hemi68charger]
#1580687
02/18/14 11:13 AM
02/18/14 11:13 AM
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Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 5,163
CT
GTX MATT
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master
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CT
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Timing should be the same no matter what the ignition system is, and that's whatever works best. It's possible that it may like a degree or so less timing with a hotter ignition system.
Set the base where it idles best and the total where it makes the most power. If you're looking for an idea of where to start I'd start with 32 total and work my way up, and expect the engine to idle best with 14+ initial.
Last edited by GTX MATT; 02/18/14 11:14 AM.
Now I need to pin those needles, got to feel that heat
Hear my motor screamin while I'm tearin up the street
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Re: MSD timing on OEM spec'd 440
[Re: GTX MATT]
#1580688
02/18/14 11:29 AM
02/18/14 11:29 AM
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Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 8,828
Houston, Tx
hemi68charger
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OP
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Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 8,828
Houston, Tx
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Quote:
Timing should be the same no matter what the ignition system is, and that's whatever works best. It's possible that it may like a degree or so less timing with a hotter ignition system.
Set the base where it idles best and the total where it makes the most power. If you're looking for an idea of where to start I'd start with 32 total and work my way up, and expect the engine to idle best with 14+ initial.
Thanks... That's what I thought on the theory.... I was setting my points at 10 initial, so I'll bump it up to 14-15 with the electronic distributor I have in it now.. I'll see where that gets me with the vacuum/centrifical advance ( hopefully around the 32 area )....
TroyHouston Mopar Connection Club'69 Charger Daytona 440 - auto - 4.10 Dana (now with 426 hemi) '69 Charger 500 440 - 4speed - 3.54 Dana '70 Road Runner 383 - 4speed - a/c (now with 440)
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Re: MSD timing on OEM spec'd 440
[Re: GTX MATT]
#1580690
02/18/14 12:05 PM
02/18/14 12:05 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 21,076
Niles , Ohio
therocks
oh wait.but hey.lets see.oh yeah.
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oh wait.but hey.lets see.oh yeah.
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 21,076
Niles , Ohio
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At idle is plays with the lights.At say 2200 it clears up.I set mine at 35 total but I have a complete MSD.Rocky
Chrysler Firepower
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Re: MSD timing on OEM spec'd 440
[Re: hemi68charger]
#1580691
02/18/14 12:17 PM
02/18/14 12:17 PM
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Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 36,041
Lincoln Nebraska
RapidRobert
Circle Track
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Circle Track
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 36,041
Lincoln Nebraska
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As said use a light that is compatible. Just me I'd set the initial with the vacuum gauge method then shorten the slots to get 36 total (initial+slots) (with vac adv capped) then springs then plug in/adj the vac adv just like I would on a non MSD equipped 440. Staying just under the pinging point at WOT (springs) will give good power & I'd want the springs to not start advancing any less than 200 RPM above the hot idle speed in gear which is what the eng is at at the stoplight & if the vac gauge "initial" timing on the dampener makes the starter cranky then reduce the initial (not the vac) 1 degree or more (as needed). EDIT I would see if the initial is the same with the MSD as it is with points without moving the dist housing & if there is a change then set it back to where it was with points & see if that clears up the rough(er) idling which'll tell you if it was from the initial change amount or something to do with the MSD multi spark characteristics
Last edited by RapidRobert; 02/18/14 12:29 PM.
live every 24 hour block of time like it's your last day on earth
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Re: MSD timing on OEM spec'd 440
[Re: hemi68charger]
#1580692
02/18/14 03:15 PM
02/18/14 03:15 PM
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Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 43,223
Bend,OR USA
Cab_Burge
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I Win
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Posts: 43,223
Bend,OR USA
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Last edited by Cab_Burge; 02/18/14 03:16 PM.
Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)
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Re: MSD timing on OEM spec'd 440
[Re: hemi68charger]
#1580693
02/18/14 03:25 PM
02/18/14 03:25 PM
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Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 12,271
Overpriced Housing Central
RobX4406
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 12,271
Overpriced Housing Central
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Quote:
Hey gang..
Got the MSD up and running. I noticed that the timing characteristics if it versus OEM points is different. I both ran the MSD with the points dist. as a trigger ( with condensor out ) and last night ran it with my Chrysler electronic distributor. Didn't get to take her out last night due to son's football game. But, I did drive it Sunday with the points as a trigger. The idle seems rougher than with the OEM points distributor, but man oh man, the performance enhancement when driving and getting on it is like night and day. I was curious for those running the MSD on their somewhat stock 440's, what are you doing for timing?
1. Are you setting the timing to OEM spec ( about 10 degrees BTC at curb idle without vacuum advance ) or
2. Setting it at total degree advance ( say about 32-35 at 3000rpm ) and letting it be?
This will eventually be used on the 426 HEMI when I install it in the next couple of months
Thanks in advance...
Choice #2 is a horrible method to set timing. I can give you two different distributors, tell you set total at 34* and one will be clean and responsive off idle, the other will be a total POS!
Find the initial timing the engine wants. Starter kickback, vacuum gauge, there are a couple methods. Then tailor the rest to hit your total timing number.
If you have an MSD Pro Billet, put the black bushing on it and see how it runs. If you need a bushing that gives less mechanical advance, I have them in 10 and 14* for $10 ea.
Having the idle/initial timing setting right makes a world of difference in how an engine will run and perform.
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Re: MSD timing on OEM spec'd 440
[Re: RobX4406]
#1580694
02/24/14 11:29 AM
02/24/14 11:29 AM
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Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 8,828
Houston, Tx
hemi68charger
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OP
master
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Posts: 8,828
Houston, Tx
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Thanks again guys.... I have her set at 15 BTC and now, with the electronic Chysler distributor, the cars run freakin' great !!! With the MSD, she's like a completely different car. I can't wait to see what that 426 Hemi with the MSD's going to run like once the engine's installed.. 
TroyHouston Mopar Connection Club'69 Charger Daytona 440 - auto - 4.10 Dana (now with 426 hemi) '69 Charger 500 440 - 4speed - 3.54 Dana '70 Road Runner 383 - 4speed - a/c (now with 440)
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Re: MSD timing on OEM spec'd 440
[Re: hemi68charger]
#1580698
02/25/14 01:45 PM
02/25/14 01:45 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 75,043
U.S.S.A.
JohnRR
I Win
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I Win
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 75,043
U.S.S.A.
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Quote:
Thanks again guys....
I have her set at 15 BTC and now, with the electronic Chysler distributor, the cars run freakin' great !!! With the MSD, she's like a completely different car. I can't wait to see what that 426 Hemi with the MSD's going to run like once the engine's installed..
Which distributor do you have ... or non adjustable mech advance unit or the new adjustable ... and what is your TOTAL timing ?
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BTW, I shorten the advance curves up so I can have bewteen 14 and 18 BTDC at idle and end up with between 34 and 36 at max advance, I use the softest springs I can get on the advance weights also 
Most of the stock Mopar distributors have a lot of mechanical adavnce in them, anywhere from 22 to 28 crankshaft degrees 
If your distributor has the 26 degree slots in it that will make the total be 41 with 15 degrees set as the initial 