MSD timing on OEM spec'd 440

MSD timing on OEM spec'd 440 - 02/18/14 02:52 PM

Hey gang..
Got the MSD up and running. I noticed that the timing characteristics if it versus OEM points is different. I both ran the MSD with the points dist. as a trigger ( with condensor out ) and last night ran it with my Chrysler electronic distributor. Didn't get to take her out last night due to son's football game. But, I did drive it Sunday with the points as a trigger. The idle seems rougher than with the OEM points distributor, but man oh man, the performance enhancement when driving and getting on it is like night and day. I was curious for those running the MSD on their somewhat stock 440's, what are you doing for timing?

1. Are you setting the timing to OEM spec ( about 10 degrees BTC at curb idle without vacuum advance ) or

2. Setting it at total degree advance ( say about 32-35 at 3000rpm ) and letting it be?

This will eventually be used on the 426 HEMI when I install it in the next couple of months

Thanks in advance...

Posted By: GTX MATT

Re: MSD timing on OEM spec'd 440 - 02/18/14 03:13 PM

Timing should be the same no matter what the ignition system is, and that's whatever works best. It's possible that it may like a degree or so less timing with a hotter ignition system.

Set the base where it idles best and the total where it makes the most power. If you're looking for an idea of where to start I'd start with 32 total and work my way up, and expect the engine to idle best with 14+ initial.

Posted By: hemi68charger

Re: MSD timing on OEM spec'd 440 - 02/18/14 03:29 PM

Quote:

Timing should be the same no matter what the ignition system is, and that's whatever works best. It's possible that it may like a degree or so less timing with a hotter ignition system.

Set the base where it idles best and the total where it makes the most power. If you're looking for an idea of where to start I'd start with 32 total and work my way up, and expect the engine to idle best with 14+ initial.

Thanks... That's what I thought on the theory.... I was setting my points at 10 initial, so I'll bump it up to 14-15 with the electronic distributor I have in it now.. I'll see where that gets me with the vacuum/centrifical advance ( hopefully around the 32 area )....

Posted By: GTX MATT

Re: MSD timing on OEM spec'd 440 - 02/18/14 03:32 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Timing should be the same no matter what the ignition system is, and that's whatever works best. It's possible that it may like a degree or so less timing with a hotter ignition system.

Set the base where it idles best and the total where it makes the most power. If you're looking for an idea of where to start I'd start with 32 total and work my way up, and expect the engine to idle best with 14+ initial.

Thanks... That's what I thought on the theory.... I was setting my points at 10 initial, so I'll bump it up to 14-15 with the electronic distributor I have in it now.. I'll see where that gets me with the vacuum/centrifical advance ( hopefully around the 32 area )....

Also keep in mind some timing lights don't play well with the MSD, especially if you're trying to use a dialback.

Posted By: therocks

Re: MSD timing on OEM spec'd 440 - 02/18/14 04:05 PM

At idle is plays with the lights.At say 2200 it clears up.I set mine at 35 total but I have a complete MSD.Rocky

Posted By: RapidRobert

Re: MSD timing on OEM spec'd 440 - 02/18/14 04:17 PM

As said use a light that is compatible. Just me I'd set the initial with the vacuum gauge method then shorten the slots to get 36 total (initial+slots) (with vac adv capped) then springs then plug in/adj the vac adv just like I would on a non MSD equipped 440. Staying just under the pinging point at WOT (springs) will give good power & I'd want the springs to not start advancing any less than 200 RPM above the hot idle speed in gear which is what the eng is at at the stoplight & if the vac gauge "initial" timing on the dampener makes the starter cranky then reduce the initial (not the vac) 1 degree or more (as needed). EDIT I would see if the initial is the same with the MSD as it is with points without moving the dist housing & if there is a change then set it back to where it was with points & see if that clears up the rough(er) idling which'll tell you if it was from the initial change amount or something to do with the MSD multi spark characteristics

Posted By: Cab_Burge

Re: MSD timing on OEM spec'd 440 - 02/18/14 07:15 PM

Which MSD box are you using now? Is the coil compatable with the MSD box? I like and use the big MSD race boxes on most of the motors I drive now

BTW, I shorten the advance curves up so I can have bewteen 14 and 18 BTDC at idle and end up with between 34 and 36 at max advance, I use the softest springs I can get on the advance weights also

Posted By: RobX4406

Re: MSD timing on OEM spec'd 440 - 02/18/14 07:25 PM

Quote:

Hey gang..
Got the MSD up and running. I noticed that the timing characteristics if it versus OEM points is different. I both ran the MSD with the points dist. as a trigger ( with condensor out ) and last night ran it with my Chrysler electronic distributor. Didn't get to take her out last night due to son's football game. But, I did drive it Sunday with the points as a trigger. The idle seems rougher than with the OEM points distributor, but man oh man, the performance enhancement when driving and getting on it is like night and day. I was curious for those running the MSD on their somewhat stock 440's, what are you doing for timing?

1. Are you setting the timing to OEM spec ( about 10 degrees BTC at curb idle without vacuum advance ) or

2. Setting it at total degree advance ( say about 32-35 at 3000rpm ) and letting it be?

This will eventually be used on the 426 HEMI when I install it in the next couple of months

Thanks in advance...

Choice #2 is a horrible method to set timing. I can give you two different distributors, tell you set total at 34* and one will be clean and responsive off idle, the other will be a total POS!

Find the initial timing the engine wants. Starter kickback, vacuum gauge, there are a couple methods. Then tailor the rest to hit your total timing number.

If you have an MSD Pro Billet, put the black bushing on it and see how it runs. If you need a bushing that gives less mechanical advance, I have them in 10 and 14* for $10 ea.

Having the idle/initial timing setting right makes a world of difference in how an engine will run and perform.

Posted By: hemi68charger

Re: MSD timing on OEM spec'd 440 - 02/24/14 03:29 PM

Thanks again guys....

I have her set at 15 BTC and now, with the electronic Chysler distributor, the cars run freakin' great !!! With the MSD, she's like a completely different car. I can't wait to see what that 426 Hemi with the MSD's going to run like once the engine's installed..

Posted By: RapidRobert

Re: MSD timing on OEM spec'd 440 - 02/24/14 04:31 PM

Quote:

and now, with the electronic Chysler distributor, the cars run freakin' great !!! With the MSD, she's like a completely different car.

you sound pumped! Which MSD? My shop partner has a 6A on the shelf that I should try

Posted By: GTX MATT

Re: MSD timing on OEM spec'd 440 - 02/24/14 04:48 PM

Quote:

Thanks again guys....

I have her set at 15 BTC and now, with the electronic Chysler distributor, the cars run freakin' great !!! With the MSD, she's like a completely different car. I can't wait to see what that 426 Hemi with the MSD's going to run like once the engine's installed..

Cool, makes the troubleshooting that you had to go through worth while

Posted By: Cab_Burge

Re: MSD timing on OEM spec'd 440 - 02/24/14 05:03 PM

Make sure and check the total advance, especially with the stock Mopar electronic distributor

Most of the stock Mopar distributors have a lot of mechanical adavnce in them, anywhere from 22 to 28 crankshaft degrees

If your distributor has the 26 degree slots in it that will make the total be 41 with 15 degrees set as the initial

When checking the total advance you may need to rev the motor up over 5000 RPM to get all the mechanical advance in

Posted By: JohnRR

Re: MSD timing on OEM spec'd 440 - 02/25/14 05:45 PM

Quote:

Thanks again guys....

I have her set at 15 BTC and now, with the electronic Chysler distributor, the cars run freakin' great !!! With the MSD, she's like a completely different car. I can't wait to see what that 426 Hemi with the MSD's going to run like once the engine's installed..

Which distributor do you have ... or non adjustable mech advance unit or the new adjustable ... and what is your TOTAL timing ?