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440 6 pack Need help with solving fuel in exhaust issue #1573253 02/02/14 08:10 PM 02/02/14 08:10 PM
Joined: Oct 2013 Posts: 6 atlanta, ga T taboo OP member
taboo OP member T Joined: Oct 2013 Posts: 6 atlanta, ga	I am new to the forums and was hoping I could get some help with an issue I am currently dealing with. I purchased a 71 challenger 440 six pack clone about 6 months ago. I drove the car for about 3 months and started working on making it correct as there were basic issues in the engine bay. Specifically, I replaced the rubber fuel lines and put in the correct stainless lines. I also changed the power valve because the engine was not cruising smoothly at a bit above idle. After checking the vacuum to be 10 psi I put a 4.5 high flow power valve in place of the original 8.5. After changing the fuel lines and power valve, all of the sudden there was no longer getting any spark. After troubleshooting that issue I had the MSD box repaired and took the time to replace the spark plugs, wires, and distributor cap. That corrected the spark issue. Now I can get the car to turn over but I am getting gasoline in the exhaust and can fill my garage full in smoke in less than 20 seconds. The car will also not idle well. I replaced the power valve again as I was concerned I damaged the first one (the high flow one). I now have a standard flow 4.5 in it and I am still having the same issues. I am concerned I have connected something wrong but not sure what it could be. Sorry for the long post but I wanted to be sure I was giving all the info. Any advice would be greatly appreciated. Ron

Re: 440 6 pack Need help with solving fuel in exhaust issue [Re: taboo] #1573254 02/02/14 08:32 PM 02/02/14 08:32 PM
Joined: Aug 2003 Posts: 43,223 Bend,OR USA C Cab_Burge I Win
Cab_Burge I Win C Joined: Aug 2003 Posts: 43,223 Bend,OR USA	Make sure the power valve gasket is flush with the centering groove on the metering block and not distorted or up on the top of the centering groove. I take the metering block off of the carb. and turn it so it is facing the ground, I then install the power valve and new gasket from the bottom side(ground side) and watch as I screw it into the metering block to insure that the gasket seats properly Thier is one other possible issue on Holley power valves, I will not and do not use any other brand of power valves, you shouldn't either There are two diffeent styles of power valve gaskets, one with three fingers, tabs, pointing in for the power valves that have the round fuel inlet holes and the other completely round gasket inside and outside with no tabs, there for the power valves that have the rectangular fuel inlet holes Don't mix them Lots of gremlins out there, they hate us hot rodders also Welcome to the jungle Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)

Re: 440 6 pack Need help with solving fuel in exhaust issue [Re: Cab_Burge] #1573255 02/02/14 08:48 PM 02/02/14 08:48 PM
Joined: Jun 2003 Posts: 52,972 Romeo MI MR_P_BODY Master
MR_P_BODY Master Joined: Jun 2003 Posts: 52,972 Romeo MI	Like Cab said with the PV gasket and make sure the needle and seat are working right... too high of a setting or if its seeping will flood the engine with fuel... you might be able to start it and have it run but be way fat... sounds like the problem started after you played with the PV

Re: 440 6 pack Need help with solving fuel in exhaust issue [Re: MR_P_BODY] #1573256 02/02/14 11:27 PM 02/02/14 11:27 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 24,562 Brookeville, Md Mr.Yuck Not enough dumb comments...yet
Mr.Yuck Not enough dumb comments...yet Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 24,562 Brookeville, Md	I had an issue once w/ the gasket. (blue kind) There is a tiny hole in the bottom that air or fuel or something goes thru, in any event the gasket was blocking the hole, jeesh what a fit I had, It'd run for 30 seconds cut off, flood and so on. Opened the hole up and issues went away. After you check what Cab said give them the once over and start from scratch, check the floats, reset the idle mixtures, check you timing and so on. Good luck. [IMG]http://i66.tinypic.com/pui5j.jpg[/IMG] Coming soon!!!!

Re: 440 6 pack Need help with solving fuel in exhaust issue [Re: Cab_Burge] #1573257 02/02/14 11:31 PM 02/02/14 11:31 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 24,562 Brookeville, Md Mr.Yuck Not enough dumb comments...yet
Mr.Yuck Not enough dumb comments...yet Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 24,562 Brookeville, Md	this one...the gasket covered it up. 8024047-hole.jpg (157 downloads)

Re: 440 6 pack Need help with solving fuel in exhaust issue [Re: Mr.Yuck] #1573258 02/02/14 11:47 PM 02/02/14 11:47 PM
Joined: Feb 2005 Posts: 4,316 Prospect, PA BSB67 master
BSB67 master Joined: Feb 2005 Posts: 4,316 Prospect, PA	Quote: this one...the gasket covered it up. That is the squirter feed. Has nothing to do with flooding or cutting off. Would definitely cause a stumble on acceleration though.

Re: 440 6 pack Need help with solving fuel in exhaust issue [Re: BSB67] #1573259 02/08/14 05:22 PM 02/08/14 05:22 PM
Joined: Oct 2013 Posts: 6 atlanta, ga T taboo OP member
taboo OP member T Joined: Oct 2013 Posts: 6 atlanta, ga	Thank you all so much for help so far. I am still having the same issue though. I have replaced the power valve with another new one and made sure it was seated properly. I also replaced the needle and seats in all 3 carbs and set all three at the lowest setting possible. I also blocked the fuellines going to the outboard carbs so i am only running on the center carb. Lastly, i carefully ran the idle screw in the metering block almost all the way in. Still gassing out the garage in no time. Oddly with each change i have tried the problem does not seem to be changing at all. No improvement. I believe the next things to check would be the timing and fuel pressure. Any other recommendations?

Re: 440 6 pack Need help with solving fuel in exhaust issue [Re: taboo] #1573260 02/08/14 05:31 PM 02/08/14 05:31 PM
Joined: Jun 2003 Posts: 52,972 Romeo MI MR_P_BODY Master
MR_P_BODY Master Joined: Jun 2003 Posts: 52,972 Romeo MI	Quote: Thank you all so much for help so far. I am still having the same issue though. I have replaced the power valve with another new one and made sure it was seated properly. I also replaced the needle and seats in all 3 carbs and set all three at the lowest setting possible. I also blocked the fuellines going to the outboard carbs so i am only running on the center carb. Lastly, i carefully ran the idle screw in the metering block almost all the way in. Still gassing out the garage in no time. Oddly with each change i have tried the problem does not seem to be changing at all. No improvement. I believe the next things to check would be the timing and fuel pressure. Any other recommendations? Try closing the mixture screws all the way... it should stall out... if it doesnt then its pulling fuel... from some where(assuming the throttle blade is closed enough so you are on the idle circuit)

Re: 440 6 pack Need help with solving fuel in exhaust issue [Re: taboo] #1573261 02/08/14 05:32 PM 02/08/14 05:32 PM
Joined: Jun 2006 Posts: 5,163 CT GTX MATT master
GTX MATT master Joined: Jun 2006 Posts: 5,163 CT	Yes check your timing, whatever was done to the MSD box may have changed the timing slightly. Do you have a friend with a known good box to try? Did the car ever run correct after you changed the power valve the first time? Or did you do that as the same time as the lines/your spark issue? Now I need to pin those needles, got to feel that heat Hear my motor screamin while I'm tearin up the street

Re: 440 6 pack Need help with solving fuel in exhaust issue [Re: taboo] #1573262 02/08/14 05:33 PM 02/08/14 05:33 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 10,766 Central Valley, CA. Quicksilver440 I Live Here
Quicksilver440 I Live Here Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 10,766 Central Valley, CA.	What kind of fuel pump? I would definitely check fuel pressure.... especially if its not a stock mechanical pump.

Re: 440 6 pack Need help with solving fuel in exhaust issue [Re: Quicksilver440] #1573263 02/08/14 06:12 PM 02/08/14 06:12 PM
Joined: Oct 2013 Posts: 6 atlanta, ga T taboo OP member
taboo OP member T Joined: Oct 2013 Posts: 6 atlanta, ga	All of the problems occurred at the same time. So i never got the car running since i started making "Improvements". I closed the mixture screws on the center carb and it is now idling better than it was before but eventually stalls out. I also removed the sight screw on the fuel bowl and watched to see if the fuel bowl was overfilling at all and i did not have fuel come out at all. If the fuel pressure was too high from the fuel pump would the fuel bowl overflow at the sight plug?

Re: 440 6 pack Need help with solving fuel in exhaust issue [Re: taboo] #1573264 02/08/14 09:25 PM 02/08/14 09:25 PM
Joined: Aug 2003 Posts: 43,223 Bend,OR USA C Cab_Burge I Win
Cab_Burge I Win C Joined: Aug 2003 Posts: 43,223 Bend,OR USA	Quote: All of the problems occurred at the same time. So i never got the car running since i started making "Improvements". I closed the mixture screws on the center carb and it is now idling better than it was before but eventually stalls out. I also removed the sight screw on the fuel bowl and watched to see if the fuel bowl was overfilling at all and i did not have fuel come out at all. If the fuel pressure was too high from the fuel pump would the fuel bowl overflow at the sight plug? If the fuel pressure was to high it would force open the needles and seats and flood the motor with fuel coming out of the vent tubes Raise the float ups(with the motor running) a tiny bit at a time until the gas starts to just trickle out of the site plugs on all three carbs.. Stop rasing the floats then and put the site plugs back in to see if it will run okay with that float setting, if it starts to load up and flood lower the the needle adjustment about a 1/8 to 1/4 of a turn Some guys like the float level higher than other guys, I like mine to dribble a little out of the site plugs, some like them to not run out and others like them to really flow out of the site plugs You need to figure out what your motor likes Enjoy the learning process Six paks rock Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)

Re: 440 6 pack Need help with solving fuel in exhaust issue [Re: Cab_Burge] #1573265 02/09/14 03:58 AM 02/09/14 03:58 AM
Joined: Jun 2012 Posts: 1,899 MYRTLE BEACH SOUTH CAROLINA E ek3 top fuel
ek3 top fuel E Joined: Jun 2012 Posts: 1,899 MYRTLE BEACH SOUTH CAROLINA	you say it has a vac-reading of 10..depending on the cam, that could be a clue. mabe verifiy your initial timing @ 950 rpms . 15-18 * should make it burn "cleaner" in most cases. if it pings on acceleration, just taylor the curve to slow it down. you are getting a lot of good solid info from the above posts,440-6's are typicial tail pipe stinkers!

Re: 440 6 pack Need help with solving fuel in exhaust issue [Re: ek3] #1573266 02/09/14 01:59 PM 02/09/14 01:59 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 24,562 Brookeville, Md Mr.Yuck Not enough dumb comments...yet
Mr.Yuck Not enough dumb comments...yet Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 24,562 Brookeville, Md	I run mine at 6.25 of pressure and the floats right at plug level. Bump your timing to 36* total, and 18* initial and see if that helps, depending on your cam you might need 1000k at idle.

Re: 440 6 pack Need help with solving fuel in exhaust issue [Re: Mr.Yuck] #1573267 02/09/14 02:04 PM 02/09/14 02:04 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 4,733 Moved to N.E. Tennessee GomangoCuda master
GomangoCuda master Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 4,733 Moved to N.E. Tennessee	Quote: depending on your cam you might need 1000k at idle. What? In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice. In practice, there is.

Re: 440 6 pack Need help with solving fuel in exhaust issue [Re: ek3] #1573268 02/09/14 03:08 PM 02/09/14 03:08 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 9,436 Blair County,PA 62maxwgn master
62maxwgn master Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 9,436 Blair County,PA	Quote: you say it has a vac-reading of 10..depending on the cam, that could be a clue. mabe verifiy your initial timing @ 950 rpms . 15-18 * should make it burn "cleaner" in most cases. if it pings on acceleration, just taylor the curve to slow it down. you are getting a lot of good solid info from the above posts,440-6's are typicial tail pipe stinkers! And also, a 6.5 power valve will work fine !

Re: 440 6 pack Need help with solving fuel in exhaust issue [Re: GomangoCuda] #1573269 02/09/14 03:15 PM 02/09/14 03:15 PM
Joined: Nov 2006 Posts: 511 Jasper, Indiana fastnos mopar
fastnos mopar Joined: Nov 2006 Posts: 511 Jasper, Indiana	Thank you all so much for help so far. I am still having the same issue though. I have replaced the power valve with another new one and made sure it was seated properly. I also replaced the needle and seats in all 3 carbs and set all three at the lowest setting possible. I also blocked the fuellines going to the outboard carbs so i am only running on the center carb. Lastly, i carefully ran the idle screw in the metering block almost all the way in. Still gassing out the garage in no time. Oddly with each change i have tried the problem does not seem to be changing at all. No improvement. This didnt make sense to me. From what I have read and heard, the 6 pack uses the front and rear carbs to Idle. The Idle mixture screws are sometimes hidden behind little caps on the base plate and the rear can be a real pain to adjust. But if you have blocked the fuel lines from going to the front and rear carbs, this will throw off your whole set up. Someone else please confirm or dispel this please.. A True Hybrid: Burns Gas AND Rubber!

Re: 440 6 pack Need help with solving fuel in exhaust issue [Re: GomangoCuda] #1573270 02/09/14 03:31 PM 02/09/14 03:31 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 24,562 Brookeville, Md Mr.Yuck Not enough dumb comments...yet
Mr.Yuck Not enough dumb comments...yet Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 24,562 Brookeville, Md	Quote: Quote: depending on your cam you might need 1000k at idle. What? I'm at 850.. just saying in N it might like a higher idle.

Re: 440 6 pack Need help with solving fuel in exhaust issue [Re: fastnos] #1573271 02/09/14 04:21 PM 02/09/14 04:21 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 9,436 Blair County,PA 62maxwgn master
62maxwgn master Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 9,436 Blair County,PA	Did you change the gasket between the metering block and main body ?

Re: 440 6 pack Need help with solving fuel in exhaust issue [Re: taboo] #1573272 02/09/14 04:42 PM 02/09/14 04:42 PM
Joined: Aug 2003 Posts: 2,468 Answering the call of the wild T ThermoQuad top fuel
ThermoQuad top fuel T Joined: Aug 2003 Posts: 2,468 Answering the call of the wild	Trouble shooting 101 says to establish the proper baseline and proceed... It's a good thing this is not a real help desk as I would fire every one of you...with that said - the OP needs the guide to tuning six paks which has been posted one too many times. Maybe you can help him now in a proper fashion.

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